Constant Stuttering...I Don't Know What Else To Do!!!

[tedcrowley18]

Hey team.  Hopefully someone more technical than I am (and I am not very at all) will be able to help me.  I have intermittent stuttering with the graphics on the game.  I have messed around with settings and I honestly have no clue to as what I am doing at his point.  I have taken screenshots of my settings, computer specs, my monitor and its specs, everything I can think of that would help.  If anyone is able to help me, that would be greatly appreciated.  I have also included screen shots with the little box in the upper left corner to show what it is saying.  If you need more info, let me know.  If someone can get on a discord call with me and help, that would be even better.  Thanks again in advance.

[kksnowbear]

Oh dear...

To be as concise as possible, not terse, your GPU *grossly* outclasses your CPU.  That motherboard, if I'm looking at it right, only supports memory up to DDR4-2400. 

In a nutshell, you need to upgrade your motherboard, CPU, and probably the RAM as well.

IMHO of course.

And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters, at least not for the time being. Again, IMHO.

HTH.

[SharpeXB]

7 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters, at least not for the time being. Again, IMHO.

Not true. Many many people run this game without any problems like that. 

22 minutes ago, tedcrowley18 said:

screenshots of my settings

I can’t speak for all of these but one thing you should try is just set all of the Nvidia CP settings to default. You don’t need to duplicate these along with the ones set in the game. I don’t know what difference that might make but it’s a good start. Those are all graphics card settings anyways and your CPU is the bottleneck. 
Try reducing Visibility Range that’s a big one. 
This probably won’t matter but does Nvidia support the FreeSync of your monitor? They do support some of them. If so I think you need to enable Variable Refresh Rate in Windows because I see your system showing it as 60Hz and it’s a 160Hz display. You should set a Max Frame Rate cap of that or 2-3FPS lower in Nvidia CP or try setting a cap at 60 since you’re not in any danger of hitting 160. Maybe even try a Max Frame Rate of 30. It’s better to get more consistent frames that higher with stutters, you aren’t close to the 200 you have set.  

Yeah probably a new CPU is in order although just 2 years ago I was running DCS kinda ok on an i7-4790K which is older than yours. I see you’re on the Caucuses Map which should be easy to handle. My old CPU would only struggle with big MP on newer maps. 

[Rudel_chw]

36 minutes ago, tedcrowley18 said:

I have intermittent stuttering with the graphics on the game. 

 

While its true that your motherboard is a 2016 design, and your DCS is running very CPU bound, before upgrading hardware, I'd try at least the following:

1) Enable Vertical Sync and set your monitor to 60Hz, there is no point in using higher screen refresh if you can barely pull more than 30 fps.

2) Add on your antivirus an exclusion to both DCS folders: the one containing the DCS program itself, and another for the folder for DCS within /Saved Games/  ... I suggest this because there is a chance that your AV background activity is impacting on your DCS performance.

If that doesnt help, I'm afraid you will need a Mainboard+Ram+cpu upgrade.

[LucShep]

Agree with @kksnowbear and @Rudel_chw.

But, in addition, I also see some incorrect Nvidia Control Panel settings, which you need to rectify.
And also settings that are too ambitious, and features that should be used for you to take advantage of (such as DLSS) with that hardware.

You should never, ever, enforce Antialising mode and settings in the NVIDIA driver profile for DX11 games (like DCS is atm).
You placed that at "Enhance The Application Setting" and following one at "4x".  That creates a conflict within game settings, and imediately impacts performance.
Always leave Antialising mode and setting at "Application Controlled" for DX11 games (different story for older DX9 games, but that's irrelevant here now).
The Antialising settings are to be changed in the game options only.
The sole exceptions are "Gamma Correction", "Line Gamma" and "MFAA", which can be enabled/disabled to own preference (but perhaps best left at default).

Anyways.... you got nothing to lose, so might as well experiment a little.

We'll go in two parts. 

1.  The NVIDIA profile settings.
2.  After it, I'll opiniate a bit (a few notes) about in-game settings that you may want to experiment as well.

One important setting to change imediately in the NVIDIA Global Settings is the Shader Cache Size, to be set at 10GB (this is pretty much a "must do").
The other important thing is, you should costumize particular settings in the specific profile for DCS instead, in the NVIDIA specific settings for the game.

So, let's go in steps (please bare with me)...


First of all, open the NVIDIA control panel, and once in the "Manage 3D Settings"....

• In the Global Settings click "Restore". It'll be a clean sheet for it again (resets those settings to Nvidia defaults).
   
• Then still in the Global Settings, search for the "Shader Cache Size", set that at 10GB (as said, this is a "must do").
   
• Go to the "Program Settings" (it's at the imediate right of the Global Settings).
   
• Search then select "Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark (dcs.exe)"  (this is the profile that NVIDIA identifies and applies things for DCS World).
   
• Click "Restore", so that it reverts things as a clean sheet for the specific profile of DCS (it'll do so only for the selected game profile).
   

Next, and just for sheit and giggles, try my settings as in the image below, exactly as they are (NOTE: obviously feel free to experiment after, which is also the point).
Of course, these will depend to the individual and opinions may differ, but just do it anyway.

Please pay attention to the following - my global settings may be different to yours.
So, when you see "Use Global Setting" in my settings there, pay special attention to what appears inside parenthesis right after it (it's what it's set at in my Nvidia CP settings).
Change accordingly.
Also note, I've set Vertical Sync at "Fast" because it works best for me (but try it?). It should work good, but if it doesn't try ON or OFF instead (freedom of choice man!).
Once you finish with the changes, click "Apply" on the bottom.

NOTE: If at some point you wish to revert again to default DCS profile settings, and start all over again (for whatever reason), then click "Restore".
And you'll have a DCS profile clean sheet all over again. Play around with stuff.

(click on image to enlarge it)

 

Now the second part, the ingame settings.

Finally, but this is just a starting point for DCS System settings (the game options), just try changing yours in there to these, and see how it goes:

• "Upscalling"  - - - - - - - - - - - - -   DLSS  (absolutely vital if at 4K resolution/screen, and using an Nvidia RTX graphics-card that isn't top of the line)
• "DLSS perf/quality"   - - - - - - - -   QUALITY  (best upscalling image that doesn't impact performance too much; "Balanced" is also an option to get more performance)
•  "Visib Range"  - - - - - - - - - - - -   MEDIUM  (good enough detail that doesn't bog down performance too much)
•  "Civil.Traffic"   - - - - - - - - - - - -  LOW  (this setting is really no big deal for immersion and just consumes CPU cycles - maybe even consider it at "OFF")
•  "Clouds"  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   LOW (this is to avoid impact on GPU usage and VRAM; "Medium" is also an alternative, but avoid higher settings)
•  "Water" - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   MEDIUM  (good balance of detail vs performance; "High" adds more complex reflections and impacts performance)
•  "Terrain Textures"  - - - - - - - - -  LOW  (this is important to avoid stuttering due to VRAM overflow; avoid "High" with GPUs with less than 10GB of VRAM)
•  "Shadows" - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   MEDIUM  (good enough detail that doesn't bog down performance too much)
•  "Clutter/Grass"  - - - - - - - - - - -  1000  (nice enough detail for that, usually doesn't bog down performance)
•  "Forest Visibility" - - - - - - - - - -  100%  (so at maximum, this will balance and mask somewhat the tree-popping by the limited Visib Range) 
•  "Forest Details Factor"  - - - - - -  0.4  (this is a LOD switch for forest related details; always avoid more than 0.5, as it impacts performance ) 
•  "Scenery Details Factor" - - - - -  0.4  (this is a LOD switch for scenery related details; always avoid more than 0.5, as it impacts performance )
•  "LOD Switch Factor" - - - - - - - -  1.0  (this is the main LOD switch for all details, decrease for more performance; do NOT increase over 1.0)
•  "Preload Radius"  - - - - - - - - - -  75000  (nice for 64GB of RAM, more than "90000" the loading times become long and impacts RAM + pagefile)
•  "Chimney SMoke Density" - - - -   1  (this is the number of chimneys smoking in a radius; at minimum is best also for lower repetition pattern)
•  "Anisotropic Filtering"   - - - - - -   8x  (you don't need more than this in DCS, be it for VR or 2D screen, and can impact performance)
•  "Terrain Object Shadows"  - - - -  OFF  (this is important to avoid stuttering; "Flat" or "Default" is to be used only when performance is good and smooth at all situations)
•  "Lens Effects" - - - - - - - - - - - -   Flare  (clean and natural sun effects, with no BS camera lens bubbles; If you dislike the effect, change to OFF) 
•  "Heat Blur"  - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   LOW  (no need to use more than this, higher settings can impact performance with no benefits on image) 
•  "Motion Blur" - - - - - - - - - - - - -  OFF  (of no real importance for a flight-sim; OFF avoids creating ghosting (or adding even more) on objects, especially with DLSS) 
•  "Depth of Field"  - - - - - - - - - - -  OFF  (huge impact on GPU usage; avoid enabling it at all times, no matter the system) 
•  "Wake Turbulence" - - - - - - - - -  OFF  (this particular setting is found under "Gameplay" settings - can greatly impact performance with more aircraft ingame).

The devs also left some quick notes regarding newest DCS options:

Also, if using DLSS, this can provide slightly better performance and better image in motion --> latest DLSS .DLL (recommended!)

This may also be usefull it interested in tweaking some Windows settings for better gaming performance --> see here.

And if nothing else seems to work.... heck, consider reverting to a previous version of DCS that works better for you, if you do feel that's better.
I actually ended up reverting to a much(!) older version - that one in my sig - and it's been the best DCS experience yet for me (but then I use it in VR).

Edited July 31, 2024 by LucShep
updated settings and links

[kksnowbear]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Not true.

And that's your opinion.  I stated mine, you've stated yours.

Stuttering is (probably) the single biggest complaint about most any game, even among people with high end hardware.  And that includes DCS.

Having a system with grossly mismatched CPU and GPU will absolutely cause problems that settings aren't going to fix.

[SharpeXB]

PS if Nvidia does not support the FreeSync variable refresh monitor model you have then you should enable Vsync in DCS. I always found Fast Vsync in Nvidia CP to work really well at making things smoother even at lower rates. 

[kksnowbear]

I also noticed the OP isn't using DLSS and intended to say he should be, as LucShep indicated.  Otherwise there's a ton of GPU horsepower that could be used and currently isn't.

This is particularly true running at 4k.  The CPU is choking the GPU to death, and it might help a lot to at least give that nice GPU something to do with himself. 

[SharpeXB]

4 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

And that's your opinion. 

Not an opinion. My machine doesn’t stutter. I’ve never had that problem in DCS or any game. Must be something you’re doing wrong or don’t understand. Telling everyone that is baloney

[kksnowbear]

The monitor is configured as Gsync Compatible, which is appropriate to a FreeSync monitor.

4 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

10 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

And that's your opinion. 

Not an opinion. My machine doesn’t stutter. I’ve never had that problem in DCS or any game. Must be something you’re doing wrong or don’t understand. Telling everyone that is baloney

There are ton of people who would say  that you're wrong...again, your opinion.  Leave it at that.  You're also not (by far) the first to claim "My machine doesn’t stutter" and I understand what I'm doing better than you will ever hope to.  You've already proven to me you don't even understand the difference in refresh rate and frame rate...so it's pretty clear to me.

Edited July 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Glide]

I don't think you need Anisotropic filtering with DLSS anymore.  The "AI" does it all for you.  I use it with MSAA, and I sometimes forget to turn it off.

Edited July 26, 2024 by Glide

[SharpeXB]

26 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

There are ton of people who would say  that you're wrong

Tons? Really? Who?

”No amount of money can buy you a good computer” is really worthless advice. Thanks for the help!

[kksnowbear]

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

”No amount of money can buy you a good computer” is really worthless advice.

Not what I said, but thanks for contorting my words.

Here's what I said:

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

...no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters, at least not for the time being. Again, IMHO.

Problem is poorly written software (of any type) can still run like crap on the best machine.  I *know* how to build good machines, but I also understand that crappy software can bring the whole thing to it's knees.

As for the people who can attest to this fact, look around.  There are more than a few right here on this forum.  LucShep has mentioned several times, including in this very thread, that he runs an older version of DCS because it doesn't perform as well as it did in earlier versions.

Like I said, you stated your opinion,  I stated mine.  Leave it at that.

[SharpeXB]

35 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Here's what I said:

Yes. You said “And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters”

A good machine isn’t going to stutter. So essentially you just said no amount of money can buy you a good machine. 

Thanks for solving the problem here!

Edited July 26, 2024 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

2 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes. You said “And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters”

A good machine isn’t going to stutter. So essentially you just said no amount of money can buy you a good machine. 

Thanks for solving the problem here!

 

Once again I said no such thing.  I posted a direct quote of what I said  and you're contorting it.  It's really not so clever that it isn't obvious.

You've stated your opinion.  I've stated mine. Plenty of evidence all over online and here in this forum about stuttering.

But I'm sure everyone else is not smart as you because they still have stutters.

But not you...no, you've completely solved it.  We should all be grateful.

 

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

A good machine isn’t going to stutter.

LMAO

Tell that to all the people who have reported stutters in games all over the internet (including DCS) regardless of their machine and how good it is.

I'm sure they'll all be thrilled to know that, once again, an expert over at the DCS Forum has it all figured out.  

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Not an opinion. My machine doesn’t stutter. I’ve never had that problem in DCS or any game. Must be something you’re doing wrong or don’t understand. Telling everyone that is baloney

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Yes. You said “And to be brutally clear, no combination of hardware or settings, and no amount of money spent thereon, is going to completely eliminate stutters”

A good machine isn’t going to stutter. So essentially you just said no amount of money can buy you a good machine. 

 

That is beside the point.

But, in anycase, the reality is that the sort of machine that the newest DCS 2.9x version requires to be absolutely stutter free still does not exhist.
This comes from someone that builds and assists with gaming systems, as a hobby, in a variety of budgets and parts (used and new). Some of which I actually built for DCS...
There are inherent optimization problems within the game itself (in so many ways) that even the devs recognize that it requires intervention - and why Vulkan (among other things) is being developed.

"Stuttering", "Hitching", "Juddering" are things that are perceived differently, greatly or not, and easily tolerated or not, from one individual to another.  2D or VR, no matter.
For example, with a 4K screen at 60hz refresh (S-Sync 60FPS, no VRR, as is my preference), you absolutely need a Frametime below 16.6ms at all times, regardless of maximum Framerate achievable. Anything over that frametime value will create a "Stuttering/Hitching/Juddering" effect (or sensation) in the image motion.

Some people are not sensitive to it, others are (like me).
For instances, I can (unfortunately!) even feel it going below and over 8.0ms in 4K 60Hz, locked at 60FPS, as slightly flutuation almost as "hitching". Yes, even when it's within that optimal sub-16.6ms Frametime.  I had a friend right beside me with it occuring and he would not see/feel/sense any difference, no perception of such.  I think you may be like him.

Your yardstick for "smooth performance" (your own PC, looking at its specs in your signature) is currently beyond the capabilities of, I'd say, the majority of active DCS users.
I'm of firm belief that ED (and 3rd parties) keep making the same grave mistake by insisting on making more things "prettier" but heavier. It gets harder and harder to increase (or keep same) game settings, an ideal image and game performance that will only be seen by the fortunate ones who can spend so much money on PC hardware.
And even such fortunate ones get performance problems, looking at these forums....
Nothing to do with the ability of enjoying the sim/game as is (performance problems or not), but it's the truth.

Edited July 27, 2024 by LucShep
spelling(?)

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, kksnowbear said:

LMAO

Tell that to all the people who have reported stutters in games all over the internet (including DCS) regardless of their machine and how good it is.

I'm sure they all be thrilled to know that, once again, an expert over at the DCS Forum has it all figured out.  

I couldn’t tell you what they’re doing wrong or what part of their system is defective. Having been through a recent round of big troubleshooting myself the solution for this just isn’t found here on these forums. I’m not knocking anyone’s advice but people here or the devs simply don’t know the full picture. I always turn to my PC vendor tech support and they’ve been able to work it out. They’ve never told me no amount of money would help.

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

But, in anycase, the reality is that the sort of machine that newest DCS 2.9x version requires to be absolutely stutter free still does not exhist.

Yes it does. I’m sure there are many players who run this without trouble

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Your yardstick (your own PC, looking at it specs) for "smooth performance" is currently beyong the capabilities of, I'd say, the majority of active DCS users.

That is certainly true but look what I’m running, 4K 120Hz at all the highest settings. You don’t need such hardware to run the game in 1080p 60Hz at medium settings. DCS really is not a particularly demanding game provided you run settings compatible with your hardware. 

[kksnowbear]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:49 PM, SharpeXB said:

I always turn to my PC vendor tech support and they’ve been able to work it out.  They’ve never told me no amount of money would help.

Yeah...because they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.  I prefer to tell people the truth, even if it means I don't make as much money.

(And I didn't say no amount of money will help.  I said no amount of money will completely resolve the stuttering issues...you can read...no?)

Incidentally:  I presume this would be the same 'vendor' who sold you the 13900K that crapped out earlier this year, due to the ongoing Raptor Lake debacle.

And it would appear you've thrown them another big chunk of money, since you're now running a 14900k.

But wait, it gets even better:  The new 14900k CPU also is now known to have problems, and they didn't mind selling you that.  The Raptor Lake problems have been around since late 2022, and became common knowledge during 2023.  Certainly any PC vendor worth doing business with would be aware of it.

You posted in December 2023 "I am running an i9-13900K without any trouble..."  - but, on April 30, you posted "I actually just replaced my 13900K since it crapped out too!".

So your vendor - who (if they're worth crap) would clearly have known about the Raptor Lake problems by the time you went to them to replace your failed 13900k...actually sold you another Raptor Lake CPU.  I'd even bet they said nothing about these known issues to you at the time (your posts on the subject don't indicate they informed you of the issue, only your own guess it was because of overclocking).  And they knew the whole time.  Must have, else they're not really not too aware of what's been going on with Intel CPUs since 2022.

Now, first of all, if I'd sold someone such a POS that it failed the way these Raptor Lake units have, I'd make it right - that goes without saying.  But I damn sure wouldn't then sell them another of the same type of screwed up BS that's *also* exhibited problems.

So, yeah lol - they're not going to tell you no amount of money would help.  If they did that, they couldn't sell you more stuff that also has defects, much like the first set they sold you.

Now *that's* a great place to buy computers...wow.

Edited August 1, 2024 by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I couldn’t tell you what they’re doing wrong or what part of their system is defective.

Well at least they will all be relieved to know it's them doing something wrong or their system is defective. Thank goodness you're here to pinpoint all these flaws.

(And you rely on a "PC vendor" to resolve problems...? Wow...lol smh)

[SharpeXB]

23 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Yeah...because they'd be shooting themselves in the foot.  I prefer to tell people the truth, even if it means I don't make as much money.

Well they solved the problems I had and the PC works great. I know that’s hard for you to imagine but it’s indeed possible. I said I have a good PC (and vendor) not a perfect one, I’ve needed some deep dives into the trouble shooting lately but they don’t tell me it’s hopeless and blame it on the software.

Yeah you probably don’t keep many customers with such advice.

 

16 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Well at least they will all be relieved to know it's them doing something wrong or their system is defective. Thank goodness you're here to pinpoint all these flaws.

Problems might not have anything to do with the game. They can definitely be hardware based. Most of my recent ones have been. Stuff can break, be defective, need updates and so on. Automatically blaming the software isn’t always the correct path to take. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

I have a 100% satisfied customer base, backed up with 100% money back satisfaction guarantee*, thanks.

(*Though I've never had to "pay a claim", because my customers are happy.)

Let's just feature that I'm the guy who your PC vendors call when they don't have a clue (and yes, that was also my career with an international Fortune 500 company).

You've had two different people tell you that the problems are what they are. I can't help that you can't acknowledge reality.

[kksnowbear]

22 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

They can definitely be hardware based. Most of my recent ones have been.

Sounds like *your* hardware is problematic.  Mine's not, nor any I've sold.

But it's clear that everyone except you is just "automatically blaming software" lol

[SharpeXB]

12 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Sounds like *your* hardware is problematic.  Mine's not, nor any I've sold.

Anything is breakable. Lemme make a list… overclocked CPUs oops. Loose cables or slots, BIOS updates. Everything needs service and maintenance. That can well be the problem here too. 

 

31 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

You've had two different people tell you that the problems are what they are.

I don’t notice anyone here has diagnosed what the OPs trouble really is. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by SharpeXB

[kksnowbear]

 

24 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

52 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

You've had two different people tell you that the problems are what they are.

I don’t notice anyone here has diagnosed what the OPs trouble really is. 

Nobody has claimed to have diagnosed anything.

I was referring to the stuttering problems with games in general and DCS in particular. Thought that was obvious. You have trouble following?

24 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That can well be the problem here too. 

Except that it's not the problem I have assured the OP cannot be completely eliminated by throwing money at expensive hardware.

Also not the problem with the issues LucShep discussed at length.

But I'm sure someone who relies on a PC vendor to resolve problems with their pre-built machine would know better than either of us would.

Edited July 27, 2024 by kksnowbear