Q: DCS Dynamic Campaign: What about strategic targets and overall scenario?

[winchesterdelta1]

I'm very exited for this new DCSDC game mode. And there is a lot of exciting news coming out regularly.
My question is. We hear a lot about AI ground units and their navigation. While these are updates to the AI that really need to be done, i had another point of interest we don't hear much about.
DCS has historically focused mostly on attacking and destroying mobile units and SAM sites/Air defense units. And attacking Airfields. In single player and mostly in Multiplayer. While that is a lot of fun. A lot of weapons are never properly used for what they are designed to do. Will DCSDC also mainly focus on that? Or will we actually also have to destroy strategic targets to win the campaign and not only ground units?

With strategic targets I mean this list below,
*C4 complexes: (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, and interoperability)
*Infrastructure: Bridges, Factories, Power plants, Railroads, Harbors, Warehouses.
*Military targets: Army buildings, Navy buildings, AF buildings, Staging area's, supply bases/buildings, Fuel storage facilities, weapon storage facilities, Airbases, depots, dispersal points on Airfields, Control towers, hardened bunkers, aircraft shelters.
*Political targets: Government buildings
*Supply routes.
*EWR complexes
*HVAA assets: E-3, A-50, Signal Aircraft, Tankers, Transports
*And a variety of other infrastructure targets and military targets to stop the war machine.

Or will this game mode be a endless chase attacking mobile/grounds units and SAM units? Like we mostly have now. What is the overall war scenario? And what needs to be done to successfully win that scenario? Is there some light background story on the ongoing conflict? Will this just be a Dynamic Sandbox with a bunch of targets that move on the already existing maps with no soul/immersion/depth? In war you don't just destroy all ground units and you win. There is more to it then that.
I feel that there should be a map/theater specifically designed for this Dynamic Campaign.

"Sorry i could not find the proper dedicated DCSDC tread where these things are being discussed."

Edited July 27, 2024 by winchesterdelta1
Added some things. And corrected some things.

[MVS-Viper]

I am looking forward to the Dynamic Campaign as well.  It is really a complex campaign engine.
 

So that if you blow up a bridge, the bridge will remain destroyed in subsequent missions (until the end of the campaign).  The destroyed bridge may have an affect on how quickly the opposition will be able to re-supply their troops.  The Dynamic Campaign will be a game changer because no two missions will be alike.  

[wilbur81]

1 hour ago, winchesterdelta1 said:

 A lot of weapons are never properly used for what they are designed to do. Will DCSDC also mainly focus on that? Or will we actually also have to destroy strategic targets to win the campaign and not only ground units?

With strategic targets i mean this list below.
*C4 complexes: (command, control, communications, computers, intelligence, and interoperability)
*Infrastructure: Bridges, Factories, Power plants, Railroads
*Military targets: Army buildings, Navy buildings, staging area's, supply bases/buildings, Fuel storage facilities, weapon storage facilities, Airbases, depots
*Political targets: Government buildings
*EWR complexes
*HVAA assets: E-3, A-50, Signal Aircraft, Tankers
*And a variety of other infrastructure targets and military targets to stop the war machine.

Or will this game mode be a endless chase attacking mobile/grounds units and SAM units? Like we mostly have now. What is the overall war scenario? And what needs to be done to successfully win that scenario? Is there some light background story on the ongoing conflict? Will this just be a Dynamic Sandbox with a bunch of targets that move on the already existing maps with no soul/immersion?
I feel that there should be a map/theater specifically designed for this Dynamic Campaign.

 

Love everything about these questions, Winchester, and I'm curious about these elements as well. 

Edited July 27, 2024 by wilbur81

[MBot]

Excellent questions! As with my own humble attempt with my old DCE, which left out ground warware completely, a dynamic campaign can revolve entierly around a struggle for strategic targets. It basically is the question what role the defending IADS (EWR, SAM, airbases) and target map scenery objects will play. As there are thousands of property-less scenery objects on a given map, I think there will need to be an interface for the human campaign designer to manually designate certain scenery objects as relevant for a campaign. Like this building is a party HQ, presidential palace, power plant, warehouse, factory, fuel storage or command post etc.

[Bob_Petuss]

I agree with the above, DC should be more than just a line on the map, where units of the two sides will butt heads on both sides. We need some kind of "semantic" content, especially important goals that will help in global victory. I really liked the idea of the possibility of striking at political targets, which could suspend the actions of enemy troops for a while. As well as attacks on fuel depots, the destruction of which will suspend the enemy. It would be cool to see missions for transport helicopters, such as a mass landing, as in CoD:MW 2007, or transportation and evacuation of saboteurs behind enemy lines, as in Pripyat) So that you don't just move the cargo back and forth.
It will be great if in some operations the player is given the choice "Whether he wants to strike an important target, or cover for the AI group that will do it." 
In general, I want the functionality to be extensive and difficult, for the sake of this I would wait another 5 years

[A Hamburgler]

Very good questions indeed. I am also wondering about how aircraft will go out on multiple missions. For example if an awacs plan flies a mission and returns to base will there be a time delay for that same aircraft to refuel before it can go out on another mission. Also with other aircraft if they need to change their load outs will there be a time delay. So if an aircraft RTBs before it can fly another mission it may take an hour or two in game time to refuel and rearm which now gives you a chance to actually strike that target. 
 

This would be an interesting concept because it may actually create a reason to perform recon missions and locate actual targets before you send a strike package out. 
 

I am excited to play DCS in new ways. I think it will be fun to even do recon mission along the frontline. Imagine spotting a column of tanks heading to the front. You then send out a package to blowup a nearby bridge which now forces the tanks to take a new path or slows them down. This could give you time to move som troops around and so on. As mentioned above being apart of a mass transport of troops would be cool. Hopefully the DC will really make DCS shine. 

Edited July 28, 2024 by A Hamburgler

[winchesterdelta1]

12 hours ago, A Hamburgler said:

I am also wondering about how aircraft will go out on multiple missions. For example if an awacs plan flies a mission and returns to base will there be a time delay for that same aircraft to refuel before it can go out on another mission. Also with other aircraft if they need to change their load outs will there be a time delay. So if an aircraft RTBs before it can fly another mission it may take an hour or two in game time to refuel and rearm which now gives you a chance to actually strike that target.

 

If it's a proper Dynamic Campaign. Then that AWACS in your example would be replaced by another AWACS before it leaves it's station. Same with Aircraft refueling and re-arming. Just another strike mission or CAS mission would be send out if the resources permit. So you don't have to wait every time for a flight to refuel and rearm. (That would be pretty quick anyway) But it would be cool if there would be a time delay on the planes that just returned to base for general maintenance tasks or even repair. So if you use a certain airbase a lot it might have less planes available because they are being under maintenance or repair.

But yes Recon missions would be great. But i think it would shine on long range recons to find supply lines and staging area's or what not. Or to monitor a certain area for radio communication to find a HQ building, or to photograph new target area's you can strike.

Edited July 28, 2024 by winchesterdelta1

[A Hamburgler]

1 hour ago, winchesterdelta1 said:

If it's a proper Dynamic Campaign. Then that AWACS in your example would be replaced by another AWACS before it leaves it's station. Same with Aircraft refueling and re-arming. Just another strike mission or CAS mission would be send out if the resources permit. So you don't have to wait every time for a flight to refuel and rearm. (That would be pretty quick anyway) But it would be cool if there would be a time delay on the planes that just returned to base for general maintenance tasks or even repair. So if you use a certain airbase a lot it might have less planes available because they are being under maintenance or repair.

But yes Recon missions would be great. But i think it would shine on long range recons to find supply lines and staging area's or what not. Or to monitor a certain area for radio communication to find a HQ building, or to photograph new target area's you can strike.

 

 

Yes but if the resources permit. I could easily see a DC where you are on the defensive with limited aircraft, limited supplies and you have to hold out until reinforcements get to you. This case if there were aircraft that had a rearm, refuel, and repair this would create a great strike opportunity. I don't know if you ever played Command Modern Operations but that is a huge part in planning missions is the time it takes for aircraft to rearm, refuel, and repair. This is not so much an issue when you have a lot of aircraft as you said you can just send out a replacement before they RTB.

[Bob_Petuss]

2 часа назад, A Hamburgler сказал:

 

Yes but if the resources permit. I could easily see a DC where you are on the defensive with limited aircraft, limited supplies and you have to hold out until reinforcements get to you. This case if there were aircraft that had a rearm, refuel, and repair this would create a great strike opportunity. I don't know if you ever played Command Modern Operations but that is a huge part in planning missions is the time it takes for aircraft to rearm, refuel, and repair. This is not so much an issue when you have a lot of aircraft as you said you can just send out a replacement before they RTB.

It will be interesting if at the beginning of the company, and for the most part of it, the player's side will have limited or at least not infinite resources, and it will be necessary to make a difficult choice of goals, and even sacrifice something.

[winchesterdelta1]

Will ED ever answer this? Even if it's just a simple "We don't know yet"!! Would be highly appreciated.

Edited August 10, 2024 by winchesterdelta1

[Silver_Dragon]

4 minutes ago, winchesterdelta1 said:

Will ED ever answer this? Even if it's juts a simple "We don't know yet"!! Would be highly appreciated.

The last pics about the DCSDC show some "Strategy targets".

Some has been C4 and Infraestructures. Military targes has out of questions, and ED has talked about "land convoys", about them I think the last pics show them as "line dots".

[winchesterdelta1]

One more question to ask.
Does the Dynamic campaign have phases?
Like:
*To strike Air Defenses (so much hours or targets destroyed)
*To strike Military targets.
*To strike Infrastructure.
*To strike Air force targets.

Etc etc.

Also these should be mixes. Like ; TO strike 60% Air Defenses and 30% Air Force targets and 10% supply routes.
And you should be able to make your own missions to strike any target if you deem it necessary.

It would be nice to be guided by the flow of the war in a semi realistic way. But also have the full freedom to make individual missions and respond to the the activity. Otherwise is it really a Dynamic campaign? Dynamic campaign doesn't just mean you have a persistent world with some targets to strike and a moving frontline. It's more then that. It's the feeling of being a small cog in a larger war. Can ED bring this kind of immersion. You an achieve this by rather simple ways if you know what makes people excited and engaged. You don't need super sophisticated ways of doing the campaign. You only need to make the player believe they are doing something constructive. More then just taking patches of land. There needs to be activity. AI and players constantly doing these trying to achieve the objective of the phase. And if it fails your phase might be prolonged by another couple hours or points.

Or am i asking to much?

[A Hamburgler]

That’s why I enjoy falcon BMS campaign because the AI will make decisions on what to strike, sead, and so on. You can adjust multiple sliders to prioritize certain targets/ target types. At that same time you can create your own packages.