Anyone purchase the Thrustmaster AVA base for their Warthog

[kmaultsby]

Anyone purchase the Thrustmaster AVA base for their Warthog? Is so how is it?

[_Hoss]

I'm loving mine so far. 

[slughead]

It's wobbly and like a jelly. Whilst changing the springs removes some of the wobble, it's still there. The original Warthog base was better and I expect I will be swapping back and selling the AVA at some point.

[Hempstead]

4 hours ago, slughead said:

It's wobbly and like a jelly. Whilst changing the springs removes some of the wobble, it's still there. The original Warthog base was better and I expect I will be swapping back and selling the AVA at some point.

Kind of agree. I don't like AVA either. I packed it away.

Don't get me wrong. I think this is a personal preference. WH, IMHO, has too high the centering force. And, it's not adjustable. But by design, AVA has theoretical zero force at equilibrium center point (this may not be the same as the physical center point). This is the opposing spring design's fundamental effect. The CAM helps a bit, but it's very weak. It's so weak that you have to look for it to feel its effect. It's a much better design than Cougar, using the CAM as the adjustable centering force. I think it has potential, but the CAMs are still crappy.

 

It's probably good for flying helos, but I am mostly an airplane flyer. 

 

[Lange_666]

I just wonder what the problem really is with wobbling?
All bases (Virpil, VKB, TM AVA, old Cougar mods) which use a similar gimbal approach wobble around the centerpoint.
This is due to the design. They will always wobble, and will wobble more with lighter springs and heavier sticks.
But... it never has been a problem since i don't let go of the stick.
So i just wonder what problem people have with the wobble.

I prefer this 200% over the imprecise sticky plastic original TM WH gimbal which went out of the door as soon as i got it.)

[slughead]

Each to their own. I can feel the wobble near the centre. It's not right. It may not be noticeable with sticks on poles, but mine is desk-mounted. I don't get that with the WH, which was working fine for me with no sticking. 

[Lange_666]

No poles here, mine is desktop with no extension.

[_Hoss]

I prefer the AVA now that I've used it for a while. I have a center mounted Hornet stick, on a 10cm curved extension. 

But.........  I do hope they come out with adjustable clutch dampers at some point.

[Hempstead]

On 8/7/2024 at 2:49 AM, slughead said:

Each to their own. I can feel the wobble near the centre. It's not right. It may not be noticeable with sticks on poles, but mine is desk-mounted. I don't get that with the WH, which was working fine for me with no sticking. 

Indeed, each to their own. For me... it's not so much of the wobble. Although the rare occasion that I let go of the stick and it wobbles causes my F-16 to also wobble is very annoying, it's resolvable by carefully letting go of the stick. What really bothers me is the not knowing the center by the feel. That is... I have no idea whether I am at center or not. So, that means you have to setup ample amount of dead center, or else. It really doesn't matter much during a fight, but it bothers me a lot when trying to do some daily maneuvers like flying a DME Arc, or aerial refueling. Misjudge the center during aerial refueling, you die. So, you are forced to do the dynamic balancing thing, like the one legged MIT robot, i.e. never stop moving, and constantly do "small corrections."

I prefer to do one small correction. Let go (no force, but keep the hand there), watch... and do another small correction. Let go.... That is very difficult to do with the AVA. In other words, it forces me to constantly inferring with the F-16, and I don't fly like that. I trim, as taught by my flight instructors.

Again, like I said, this is really down to a personal preference. What they really need is a CAM with an abrupt "fold line" at the center to create a centering notch. You can make one yourself. I won't be bothered to make one, as I have my own stick design to complete.

[slughead]

16 hours ago, _Hoss said:

I do hope they come out with adjustable clutch dampers at some point.

I wouldn't hold your breath. When has Thrustmaster ever released improvements other than new grips for their products?

[_Hoss]

Slughead, you need to change your handle to, Moriarty.......

[jye0622]

Hi ! If you replace the soft springs and fly the AH-64D, you will love the AVA Base!

[rcjonessnp175]

On 12/12/2024 at 2:53 AM, jye0622 said:

Hi ! If you replace the soft springs and fly the AH-64D, you will love the AVA Base!

Are you saying use the soft springs?  Looking to pick one up for the rotorwing side of dcs

[Steel Jaw]

Will it attach to the existing warthog stick plate?

[slughead]

Yes.

[Waffle 1-1]

On 8/8/2024 at 5:05 PM, Hempstead said:

So, you are forced to do the dynamic balancing thing, like the one legged MIT robot, i.e. never stop moving, and constantly do "small corrections."

 

Interesting. I switched from the warthog base to the Ava and found the refueling, landing and random stuff easier on the first try.

The wobble doesn’t bother me but it is an acquired taste, to say the least. I find the hardest part finding the center position, as you said. I find myself looking forward and back to the target a lot more, just to make sure I am stable and not overcorrecting.

So far I like it very much, but my warthog base had a seriously sticky center position which is terrible for small corrections.

[jackd]

I discussed the AVA's wobbly behavior with some TM-tech from support. It's designed like that on purpose in regards of real life.

Important is to calibrate it, a thing i forgot, needed after firmware updates and even spring tension adjustment.

Edited July 8 by jackd

[slughead]

My experience of first line tech support is that they have no clue. You could speak to another and get an utterly different made up story. You’ll only get the truth from the development team.

[_Hoss]

There are three collars, two sets of cams, and three sets of springs—a large collar for no extension, a medium collar for 10mm up to 75 mm, and a small collar for 75mm - 200 mm and up. I use the small collar for less travel with a 200 mm extension, Jet cams, and stiff springs adjusted down pretty well. The base features a button that allows you to calibrate the stick after making all necessary changes and adjustments to the various hardware components. I like it; I had a TM Warthog HOTAS set up with Crosswind pedals for years, and never had a problem with them. Now, I have a wide assortment of pieces that make up my simpit, so I'm no fanboy to any manufacturer. WinWing Super Taurus (legacy) and PTO2, TM AVA base w/F/A-18 stick, Viper Panel, and TPRs, a BlackHog A, and an On-your-12 Master Arm panel button boxes, along with a K51 trim box. I use all of these without the TARGET or SimAppPro software running. They are only for firmware updates and changing Hats and switches from an axis to a DX function. I use RSMapper to program TEMPO and Macro commands when needed, and it displays all my controllers and their corresponding buttons.

My advice is to do your research (will you need to use their software, and will you understand it if you do?) Find what fits your needs and budget, regardless of the manufacturer; you can't go wrong. 

 

Edited July 8 by _Hoss

[Markus77]

Hi, I have bases from Thrustmaster, VKB, Virpil and WinWing. I've tried them all, except for the GunFighter IV from VKB, although I own that too. My recommendation is very clear: if you use an extension, then definitely a base with a damper. If you only use the stick (without extension), then you can discuss it. The AVA base 'wobbles' like a cow's tail, especially with an extension, and you have to like that. Personally, I don't like it.

Greetings

[_Hoss]

Well, I don't usually let go of my flight stick while I'm playing like I'm flying, so wobble is not something I look at, or really care about. I'm anal, but not that anal....... I've got the springs set heavy to get a tactile feel of good resistance. I don't know of anyone; or have heard of anyone who makes a turn, climbs or dives, while playing like they are flying, and lets go of their stick in the process. That, just don't make sense.

The only time I've ever partially let go of a directional control device is when I'm driving my truck and let the steering wheel come back to center on its own after turning. But my hand is still resting on it. 

[_Hoss]

Here ya go... a solution to wobble......

And new Fly by Wire (FBW) cams, for you Jet Jocky types....

I got a set of each.... 

The Helo types should like the dampers, and maybe even the Dual Pitch cam... 

Oh yeah, there are extensions now, too—straight and curved Helo editions with adjustable offsets.

 

 

Edited July 10 by _Hoss

[kludger]

I ordered one of each as well, although I'm curious why there is only one dual pitch blade and not two, I couldn't find any explanation of what that is simulating, I guess I will find out myself, since these just came out there are no reviews yet.

[slughead]

Have I got this right? People complained from the day the AVA was released that it is too wobbly. Thrustmaster fixes this (?) by releasing a new damper and expects the consumer to pay to fix their design flaw? Hmm.

[Bob1943]

Just ordered the new dampers and the FBW cams.  I will put together a Before & After review as soon as I receive them and get them installed and do a little flying.