Simplified Device & Control Mapping

[Lumbergh]

Three suggestions for device mapping: 

• When we map an axis, please add options for slider and reverse axis on the first assignment popup window, instead of having to go separately. 
• It should be obvious when assigning axes that the default setting is backwards and it needs reversed.  The game already knows which way is correct.
• When auto-assigning devices on first load,  if I've already mapped a similar  aircraft, it should look at those.  For example, why do I have to map and reverse every single helicopter on my collective. 

[MAXsenna]

Excellent idea!
Same with the swap axis for FFB.

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[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, Lumbergh said:

It should be obvious when assigning axes that the default setting is backwards and it needs reversed.

I’m not sure how the game would figure that. It might be preconfigured for certain popular devices but who knows. 

[MAXsenna]

I’m not sure how the game would figure that. It might be preconfigured for certain popular devices but who knows. 

What he means is that when configuring a helicopter, the collective axis should be reversed and set as slider by default. Slider goes for most axis actually. Pretty easy. Also, all toe brakes needs to be reversed for some odd reason. And the same with swapping axis for FFB, which you don't have, so you have never noticed.
Cheers!

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[SharpeXB]

49 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

What he means is that when configuring a helicopter, the collective axis should be reversed and set as slider by default. Slider goes for most axis actually. Pretty easy. Also, all toe brakes needs to be reversed for some odd reason. And the same with swapping axis for FFB, which you don't have, so you have never noticed.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Well the game can’t reverse the default, that would screw up everyone who’s already assigned the command. So for better or worse it needs to be left alone. It’s easy enough for anyone to set for themselves. 

[MAXsenna]

Well the game can’t reverse the default, that would screw up everyone who’s already assigned the command. So for better or worse it needs to be left alone. It’s easy enough for anyone to set for themselves. 

Fair enough, but they could have the check boxes available when selecting the axis like OP asks for.

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[Weed89]

i wonder if ANYONE uses toe brakes WITHOUT have to reverse them? ( my guess 99.9% Have to REVERSE them to work correctly)  So, Why are they not PRESET reversed??  was a Great Suggestion

[Slippa]

Yep. Put it right.

Have it make sense from the start. If those of us existing users have to adapt, I for one would be happy to go through all my modules putting them right.

It’s one of the most ridiculous things I first noticed when getting into setting up my controllers. Who has their default settings arse about face?

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Weed89 said:

i wonder if ANYONE uses toe brakes WITHOUT have to reverse them? ( my guess 99.9% Have to REVERSE them to work correctly)  So, Why are they not PRESET reversed??  was a Great Suggestion

They actually work well inverted since that puts any dead zone at the resting position rather than the top. If they weren’t inverted you’d need another “inner” or “lower” dead zone setting. Not a bad idea either. Nothing much is gained by reversing the default setting though. It would only upset everyone who already has them assigned. 

[ShuRugal]

On 8/11/2024 at 4:19 PM, Lumbergh said:

It should be obvious when assigning axes that the default setting is backwards and it needs reversed.  The game already knows which way is correct.

I think the difficulty with this is that axis reverse need varies by module and input hardware.

Toe brakes, in particular, i have noticed to be very inconsistent.  Sometimes they need to be reversed, sometimes they need to be forward, and i have even seen it where one must be reverse and the other forward.

 

Standardizing the software side should be straightforward (though probably not a trivial lift to implement) - Eagle could set an internal standard so that axis+ always means "nose up" or "roll right" or "yaw right" or "increase power" or "turn the knob clockwise", etc etc.

The hardware side is going to be impossible.  X/Y stick axis directions are usually uniform, but when you start getting into sliders, knobs, pedals, levers, every vendor does things different.  I used to have a Saitek rudder pedal where pressing the right toe brake was the '+' direction on that axis, but the left toe brake was the '-' on its axis, because it came from the factory with the potentiometer for the left brake wired backwards.

 

A better option might be for the binding logic in the software to prompt the user to move the axis a specific direction and set reversal based on that.  For example, when binding collecting, it should say "raise the collective axis fully, then lower it fully and leave it lowered" and it will automatically assign axis direction based on the user doing that.

Edited August 13, 2024 by ShuRugal

[upyr1]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:12 PM, SharpeXB said:

They actually work well inverted since that puts any dead zone at the resting position rather than the top. If they weren’t inverted you’d need another “inner” or “lower” dead zone setting. Not a bad idea either. Nothing much is gained by reversing the default setting though. It would only upset everyone who already has them assigned. 

Not if ED implements a version test. If the feature gets implemented unless it is already there DCS would need to add a line like "Created with DCS ver X" then when DCS looks at the profiles for the first time it would automatically convert them if the tag isn't there and add the "created by DCS updated". There is a lot a computer program can do if you tell it to do it 

Edited August 17, 2024 by upyr1

[upyr1]

In the past I have posted that ED needs to improve the system. The first step would be to implement two new profiles

"common helicopter" and "common plane" 

this would add the most common controls for the different modules

pitch, yaw, roll, right throttle, left throttle, toe brakes, brake lever, target cursor,   trigger weapon release. Though it might even make sense to further divide the profiles into (possibly user defined) control families. 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

In the past I have posted that ED needs to improve the system. The first step would be to implement two new profiles

"common helicopter" and "common plane" 

this would add the most common controls for the different modules

pitch, yaw, roll, right throttle, left throttle, toe brakes, brake lever, target cursor,   trigger weapon release. Though it might even make sense to further divide the profiles into (possibly user defined) control families. 

Not a bad idea but these commands are already universal along with any of the general ones. You can copy a setup between modules using the Save/Load Profile feature. 

[upyr1]

On 8/17/2024 at 10:27 AM, SharpeXB said:

Not a bad idea but these commands are already universal along with any of the general ones. You can copy a setup between modules using the Save/Load Profile feature. 

Why not have a default profile which DCS will automatically populate controls from?

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Why not have a default profile which DCS will automatically populate controls from?

Sure it could be done. But there aren’t that many truly universal commands. 

[upyr1]

5 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Sure it could be done. But there aren’t that many truly universal commands. 

My request with the generic profile has been the most common command and not just universal. Anyway all of the most important commands are universal if not the most common, get those mapped and you can jump to the module-specific commands and settings. The first thing I do when I after installing a new module is fly a free flight mission 

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

My request with the generic profile has been the most common command and not just universal. Anyway all of the most important commands are universal if not the most common, get those mapped and you can jump to the module-specific commands and settings. The first thing I do when I after installing a new module is fly a free flight mission 

I think what you’re looking for might already exist. Check out the General category in the Controls menu. You’ll see all the common commands like Airbrake, Gear, Zoom View along with general axis commands like Pitch, Rudder etc. My guess is if you mapped these in a general profile you could save/load that into any module as a starting point. For example in most modules I just save/load my rudder pedal profile since all those axis commands are generic along with that axis tuning. I imagine that would work with the General category as well. 

[Vee.A]

On 8/21/2024 at 10:03 AM, SharpeXB said:

I think what you’re looking for might already exist. Check out the General category in the Controls menu. You’ll see all the common commands like Airbrake, Gear, Zoom View along with general axis commands like Pitch, Rudder etc. My guess is if you mapped these in a general profile you could save/load that into any module as a starting point. For example in most modules I just save/load my rudder pedal profile since all those axis commands are generic along with that axis tuning. I imagine that would work with the General category as well. 

Yup, if you load a profile from another module it'll try its best to map them correctly.

About axes being reversed by default, that's a hardware/firmware/software thing, and has nothing to do with DCS most of the time. I used to have that with my old HOTAS until i upgraded its firmware, and with my new winwing I don't have that issue either.

Edited August 27, 2024 by Vee.A

[upyr1]

On 8/21/2024 at 9:03 AM, SharpeXB said:

I think what you’re looking for might already exist. Check out the General category in the Controls menu. You’ll see all the common commands like Airbrake, Gear, Zoom View along with general axis commands like Pitch, Rudder etc. My guess is if you mapped these in a general profile you could save/load that into any module as a starting point. For example in most modules I just save/load my rudder pedal profile since all those axis commands are generic along with that axis tuning. I imagine that would work with the General category as well. 

I want more controls added- Left throttle, right throttle, wheel break, hand break, trim, TDC slew, collective, engine controls for the warbirds and maybe even a wizard 

 

[SharpeXB]

6 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I want more controls added- Left throttle, right throttle, wheel break, hand break, trim, TDC slew, collective, engine controls for the warbirds and maybe even a wizard 

I think most all the common controls are already there. Check it out. 

[upyr1]

56 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I think most all the common controls are already there. Check it out. 

I have and they don't have all the common controls for example you can't move the target cursor nor is there one for the collective or wheel brakes 

[SharpeXB]

44 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I have and they don't have all the common controls for example you can't move the target cursor nor is there one for the collective or wheel brakes 

It’s quite a lot of them though, it’s useful enough. You can use any of the modules as a template too. If I ever had to assign an entirely new controller for all the modules I’d start with that and then customize.

I could see expanding that list and having a “Use General Commands” checkbox on the modules to automatically assign those or uncheck if you didn’t. 

Edited September 3, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Hursta1]

While I agree with the OP I took had a control mapping wish.  That would be an axis for landing gear levers on as many aircraft as possible.  I recently found my old saitek throttle and trim wheel.  I thought they'd be great for WWII planes so I added them to my setup.  I figured I could at least assign one axis for landing gear levers on all my planes.  Yet only the P-47 has such an axis.  I know it's a bit of a selfish ask but If love to see it on other aircraft.  

[Baldrick33]

21 minutes ago, Hursta1 said:

While I agree with the OP I took had a control mapping wish.  That would be an axis for landing gear levers on as many aircraft as possible.  I recently found my old saitek throttle and trim wheel.  I thought they'd be great for WWII planes so I added them to my setup.  I figured I could at least assign one axis for landing gear levers on all my planes.  Yet only the P-47 has such an axis.  I know it's a bit of a selfish ask but If love to see it on other aircraft.  

Going a bit OT but third party utilities like joy2key & Joystick Gremlin can convert axis movements to keystrokes or button presses so you can use analog levers to operate landing gear, flaps etc. on modules that don't have axis support.

The problem with control mapping is to make it both comprehensive for those building cockpits and simple. In my experience owning a number of modules is that Joystick Profiler is brilliant although it does take a bit of initial setup which could prove daunting. Once comfortable with it then it handles all those issue like having common controls across modules and changing devices superbly. https://github.com/Holdi601/JoystickProfiler

[Hursta1]

I will check it out.  Thanks for the tip.