Having trouble with max power VTOL landings. Not enough power

[DmitriKozlowsky]

Lately I am Having  trouble with max power VTOL landings. Not enough power.

WIth fuel at 1800 (900 per tank), 2 X AIM -9M, empty gunpod, and LHA-1 having 15 knots wind over deck, I keep sinking into water.

Max power, emergency combat power ON, water injection set to land, nozzles at 82-85, I struggle at sea level vertical landing on 2992 standard day.

In this state AV-8B should have more then enough power. Yet my throttle is firewalled, water on Landing, but aircraft sinks, it won't hover.

Yet I am able to T/O vertically in similar state from LHA-1. Its on return landing that transitioning to hover that A/C struggles to stay in air.

[Papa1]

I’ve had the same issues with the Harrier, I’ve read quite a few post saying that the Harrier used to be over powered and there was an adjustment made to it and that it’s more realistic now but I can’t hover at much above sea level unless I’m almost out of fuel and no weapons. I get that it was designed for short take offs with a load but it  seems a bit underpowered to me when trying to come back home for a vertical landing. I don’t think much can be done with it now because of the things going on so I’m going to be patient and hope for a good outcome.

Edited September 21, 2024 by Papa1

[Gunnar81]

I seem to recall your absolute max weight for vertical landing was 20,000lbs and that is going to require you to use water and near max throttle to keep a hover. Are you checking your VL MFD to confirm weight before attempting?

[Papa1]

I must admit that I’m not checking weight anymore but I did when first learning the jet. I’m going to fly a little later today and will be a little more diligent about my weight. I guess I was just figuring that I was out of weapons and very low on fuel so weight was not going to be an issue. I remember when I was learning to hover I could practice with a couple thousand pounds of fuel and no water and hover around and maneuver at a low altitude airport and not use water. When I do use water it sure seems to run out pretty quickly.

[DmitriKozlowsky]

I doubt there is much need to check weight when A/C has no stores, no tanks, no gunpo,  and less then 1000 (500 per tank) or less fuel. In this config, with emergency combat power and water ON, our Harrier cannot transition to hover and land vertically at Nellis or any field with higher elevation, and struggles to stay in air at ship speeds at sea level on standard day. So there is a power shortage.

[Aernov]

In my experience current performance is close to real perf. charts (for atmospheric pressures close to 29.92), and ship landings are easily performed in wet schedule without flow starting with appropriate weights (as indicated in VREST VL page). It was wildly overpowered some years ago, then engine got tuned to almost-real life baseline performance and no further adjustments were made AFAIK. There was a problem with underperformance at low atmo pressures, maybe this is what you are getting at high altitude fields.

Edited September 22, 2024 by Aernov

[felixx75]

15 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I doubt there is much need to check weight when A/C has no stores, no tanks, no gunpo,  and less then 1000 (500 per tank) or less fuel. In this config, with emergency combat power and water ON, our Harrier cannot transition to hover and land vertically at Nellis or any field with higher elevation, and struggles to stay in air at ship speeds at sea level on standard day. So there is a power shortage.

ALWAYS check your VREST page. I have no problems with VL's.

Edited September 22, 2024 by felixx75

[Gunnar81]

12 hours ago, DmitriKozlowsky said:

I doubt there is much need to check weight when A/C has no stores, no tanks, no gunpo,  and less then 1000 (500 per tank) or less fuel. In this config, with emergency combat power and water ON, our Harrier cannot transition to hover and land vertically at Nellis or any field with higher elevation, and struggles to stay in air at ship speeds at sea level on standard day. So there is a power shortage.

I just tested the Harrier on the stock Carrier Landing mission on the Caucasus. VREST page shows you at around 19,700lbs at mission start and I had around 19,300lbs at my final hover and landing on the deck. With water on I had no issues with power or maintaining the hover but I was definitely at near the max power band, which makes sense as that is nearly the max weight to perform a vertical landing at sea level.

Now, if you are trying to vertically land at higher elevation like say Nellis or Afghanistan I think you will notice that those atmospheric parameters don't allow for the vertical regime of landing and IRL the jet would use a short takeoff/landing or conventional takeoff/landing procedures. As noted above the engine was tweaked several years ago to be closer to its actual performance IRL, but always check your VREST page before attempting kind of vertical landing. It is also important to note that while the Harrier was designed to hover, its not a flight regime that it was meant to be able to sustain for anything longer than the required time to transition to either forward flight or landing on the ground.

[felixx75]

Basically, you don't even need to know the exact weight, you just have to look on the VREST page to see how much fuel + water a vertical landing is possible.
This value also includes temperature and similar factors.
In the picture this would be e.g. 5102lbs when landing with water, or 3942lbs when landing without water (these values are always fuel + water). So if my current fuel with my current loadout drops below 4600lbs (I assume a full water tank of 500lbs), it is possible to land vertically (using water) without any problems.

[Сиваш]

I confirm that the engines have stopped producing the required thrust, there is none at all. I have just flown two missions from this company: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/ru/files/3324805/. When returning to the aircraft carrier, the VTOL page shows that a wet landing is possible with a fuel weight of 3300, but even with a fuel weight of 2000, it cannot stay vertical. And it cannot take off either with a fuel weight of 1500.
There were no problems with vertical landing before.
Perhaps the logic of weight calculation is broken, after the weapon is used, the weight of the aircraft is not recalculated.

[Сиваш]

В 22.09.2024 в 20:36, Gunnar81 сказал:

Я только что протестировал Harrier на стандартной миссии Carrier Landing на Кавказе. Страница VREST показывает вам около 19 700 фунтов в начале миссии, и у меня было около 19 300 фунтов при моем финальном зависании и посадке на палубу. С водой у меня не было проблем с мощностью или поддержанием зависания, но я определенно был на близком к максимальному диапазону мощности, что имеет смысл, поскольку это почти максимальный вес для выполнения вертикальной посадки на уровне моря.

Теперь, если вы пытаетесь совершить вертикальную посадку на большей высоте, например, в Неллисе или Афганистане, я думаю, вы заметите, что эти атмосферные параметры не допускают вертикального режима посадки, и в IRL самолет будет использовать короткий взлет/посадку или обычные процедуры взлета/посадки. Как отмечалось выше, двигатель был настроен несколько лет назад, чтобы приблизиться к его фактическим характеристикам в IRL, но всегда проверяйте страницу VREST перед попыткой вертикальной посадки. Также важно отметить, что хотя Harrier был разработан для зависания, это не тот режим полета, который он должен был поддерживать дольше, чем требуется для перехода либо к прямому полету, либо к посадке на землю.

Yes, but this does not mean that the aircraft should take off and land at the limit of engine thrust. Watch the video of vertical landings of these aircraft, there they hang and maneuver absolutely calmly. Now this is almost impossible.
I am inclined to think that the logic of recalculating the weight of the aircraft at the beginning and at the end of the flight is broken in the DCS.

[Сиваш]

Now I tried the mission "Carrier landing Practice" on the screenshot you can see what is the permissible weight of the aircraft, at which vertical landing is possible, the actual weight of the aircraft is less, and nevertheless the landing is performed at the limit of thrust. The next screenshot shows an attempt at vertical takeoff, engine speed is 109%, and the aircraft does not even lift off the deck, despite the fact that the weight is much less than permissible.

[Bullets]

I have had this issue as well, Empty stores jet needing around 1K of fuel on board WET power, which is way less than what It used to be?