Aim120 can be trashed with a barrel roll and chaff headon

[Muchocracker]

48 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Only if its airframe is made out of vibranium. Missiles have structural G limits, those tend to be large compared to fighters, but during an F-pole maneuver for instance, the fighter is very much capable of forcing the missile to make a 20G+ turn. Missiles are typically very fast when fired directly at the target, and that means even a gentle maneuver will generate a lot of Gs. Of course, missiles that loft are less vulnerable to this, but the longer the range, the more lead the missile must pull.

This is just not the case and is counter to how proportional navigation works. The lead points can possibly shift a wide amount yes, but the longer the range the lower the line of sight rates become, and by extension the commanded accelerations are proportionately lower, it's just basic geometry. You can watch it yourself with an aim-7. It will not be doing maximum performance turns at 25 miles.

 

54 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Sweeping your nose across from one gimbal to the other very much does defeat the missile. If it can't follow your turn due to hitting the G limiter, it'll pass behind you.

You're comically overstating how hard these missiles are turning in F-Poles, this is especially true for later generation high G capable ones. It's not going to be hitting anywhere near its maximum G capabilities until very late endgame and the aircraft is doing the right maneuvering. Even then it's rare that you see amraam's hitting 40G. 

[Pavlin_33]

Great insights here.

Doesn't the 120 have a range beyond which there's nothing a target can do to outmaneuver it? Sure you can exceed the missile head's gibal limits, or make it impact the ground, but I don't think you can out maneuver/ outrun it no matter what you do. I am guessing here but something like 5-10km.

[Ironhand]

14 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Only if its airframe is made out of vibranium. Missiles have structural G limits, those tend to be large compared to fighters, but during an F-pole maneuver for instance, the fighter is very much capable of forcing the missile to make a 20G+ turn. Missiles are typically very fast when fired directly at the target, and that means even a gentle maneuver will generate a lot of Gs. Of course, missiles that loft are less vulnerable to this, but the longer the range, the more lead the missile must pull.

…

What you describe can only occur, if the missile is fired at extremely close range. And, if that’s the case, you won’t have the time to maneuver as you describe. At longer range, yes, the missile will maneuver and shed some energy but you are nowhere near either its gimbal limits or it’s G limits.

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Pavlin_33:

Sure you can exceed the missile head's gibal limits,

This has not been possible for a few months.

There used to be a situation where the missile would go over the gimbal limit as you say and miss, but this has been fixed, the Aim120 now tries to keep the target in the gimbal limit if it reaches the limits.

 

Zitat

Doesn't the 120 have a range beyond which there's nothing a target can do to outmaneuver it? 

If the missile is not rammed into the ground or notch not really.

At best with a roll, but in my opinion the risk has become far too great since the pf enlargement that it is no longer worth it.

Edited Monday at 01:32 PM by Hobel