It seems to me that the sight calculator is not working correctly for ARAK.

[Mosencev]

When I fire on BMP - Rockets flight in bus. Almost always overshoots the target. I try very many time. I write about ENKEL (single rockets) and NORMAL MODE (NOT Long Range).  I watch DCS manual, chucksguide, Youtub guides. Try diferent combinations mode - NAV, ANF,  SLAV SI, RHM, LD.  I imputed QFE.  I try different speed, altitude, tangage.

To me it looks like the ballistic computer thinks it is firing a heavier projectile than it actually is.

 

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AJS37-500m.miz

Edited October 27, 2024 by Mosencev

[Rudel_chw]

The Enkel mode is both bugged and unrealistic, but the other modes seem to be reasonably accurate for an unguided weapon .. to kill individual vehicles its best to use a maverick. Rockets are meant for larger targets, like this:

 

 

[Mosencev]

10 минут назад, Rudel_chw сказал:

The Enkel mode is both bugged and unrealistic, but the other modes seem to be reasonably accurate for an unguided weapon .. to kill individual vehicles its best to use a maverick. Rockets are meant for larger targets, like this:

 

 

So if it is "both bugged and unrealistic" mayby it need to fix?

[Rudel_chw]

39 minutes ago, Mosencev said:

So if it is "both bugged and unrealistic" mayby it need to fix?

I meant unrealistic in the sense that the real Viggen never fired single rockets, so it being inaccurate on this mode is not worth the time to fix.

[Mosencev]

8 минут назад, Rudel_chw сказал:

I meant unrealistic in the sense that the real Viggen never fired single rockets, so it being inaccurate on this mode is not worth the time to fix.

I spent a lot of time trying to use it.
If it is not implemented, it should be stated in the manual.

[Rudel_chw]

18 minutes ago, Mosencev said:

If it is not implemented, it should be stated in the manual.

actually, the viggen’s manual does not list Enkel as a valid option on the rockets delivery procedures … maybe you are using an old version of the manual?

[MAXsenna]

OP, did you do the training mission?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Mosencev]

9 часов назад, Rudel_chw сказал:

actually, the viggen’s manual does not list Enkel as a valid option on the rockets delivery procedures … maybe you are using an old version of the manual?

How I see manual not have "valid option list for rockets". If something not write it manual, it not meant is not work. DCS manuals is not big and not have all informations.

[Rudel_chw]

43 minutes ago, Mosencev said:

If something not write it manual, it not meant is not work.

Did you read the checklists for rocket employments? Enkel isnt mentioned there, it must meant something isn’t it? … but what do I know? Just keep flying the Viggen however you like.

[Mosencev]

8 часов назад, MAXsenna сказал:

OP, did you do the training mission?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Made it now, if you about learning mission. GRUPP MODE is ok. ENKEL only 1 in target, 3 overshoot from 4. Or 4 overshoot from 4. Never undershoot. I think it strange. null

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Edited October 27, 2024 by Mosencev

[Mosencev]

14 минут назад, Rudel_chw сказал:

Did you read the checklists for rocket employments? Enkel isnt mentioned there, it must meant something isn’t it? … but what do I know? Just keep flying the Viggen however you like.

Maybe you have checklist where I need to  "on GROUP MODE" or must  "off ENKEL MODE"?

And not, I not read "checklists for rocket employments". Where I can find "checklists for rocket employments"?

Edited October 27, 2024 by Mosencev

[TOViper]

RC2.1 pages 293 and 295

Edited October 27, 2024 by TOViper

[Mosencev]

Oh really, it's named checklist.

Bat nothing about ENKEL or GROUP MODE.

[TOViper]

I think it is worth mentioning it in the manual update after the next, which was already finished and locked; therefore I set a reminder for the next revision.

 

[TOViper]

IIRC¹, there has been a "training pod" in real life for the ARAK rockets, which had a switch on the pod to choose for firing only one rocket per trigger press, or fire the salvo (all).

IIRC², HB implemented this function in a sense to use that function from the cockpit, and solved this via the ENKEL mode, in order to give at least the pilot the option (which was much more elegant than just selecting this via a kneeboard or something else).

IIRC³, The computer calculates for the center point of the salvo, thus firing a single rocket might miss the target always (too long or too short, I dont know for sure)

@MYSE1234 @Cobra847 please correct my 3 statements above if you know more on that old story.

[Mosencev]

2 часа назад, TOViper сказал:

RC2.1 pages 293 and 295

 

page 295, "ARAK Long range mode (Rockets only) Checklist"

NOW - "Disable target motion measurement (address 21, value 1)."

MUST BE - "Disable target motion measurement (address 22, value 1)."

 

Becose 211 it is Fixed sight mode

We need Disable target motion measurement - it is 221

 

If I not wrong. I wath it on page 259

[Naquaii]

16 minutes ago, TOViper said:

IIRC¹, there has been a "training pod" in real life for the ARAK rockets, which had a switch on the pod to choose for firing only one rocket per trigger press, or fire the salvo (all).

IIRC², HB implemented this function in a sense to use that function from the cockpit, and solved this via the ENKEL mode, in order to give at least the pilot the option (which was much more elegant than just selecting this via a kneeboard or something else).

IIRC³, The computer calculates for the center point of the salvo, thus firing a single rocket might miss the target always (too long or too short, I dont know for sure)

@MYSE1234 @Cobra847 please correct my 3 statements above if you know more on that old story.

Afaik that's correct. Firing single rockets wasn't a thing other than training so the computer simply doesn't have a mode that takes that into account.

[MAXsenna]

2 hours ago, Mosencev said:

Made it now, if you about learning mission. GRUPP MODE is ok. ENKEL only 1 in target, 3 overshoot from 4. Or 4 overshoot from 4. Never undershoot. I think it strange. null

null

 

I haven't done that mission in a while, so I might be wrong. But I strongly believe I remember that one is told that all rockets are shot in one volley. Hence ENKEL=single, (I'm Norwegian and read Swedish fluently), is an incorrect setting, and that's what @Rudel_chw is trying to tell you, why it's not mentioned in the manual, nor the check list. 

I read now, there will be an update in the manual. Thanks @TOViper, and thanks to @Naquaii for the explanation! 

Cheers! 

[Mosencev]

1 час назад, TOViper сказал:

IIRC³, The computer calculates for the center point of the salvo, thus firing a single rocket might miss the target always (too long or too short, I dont know for sure)

@Naquaii @TOViper

But wait, its not logic.

Rocket is unguided AND dot of aim not start moove when we start shoot (so we not change pitch axis after start fire). So all rocket in GROPP have one calculating. So rockets spread its not a part of program, it is random.  

And computer  can not know where will be center of the salvo.  

Edited October 27, 2024 by Mosencev

[MAXsenna]

@Naquaii @TOViper
But wait, its not logic.
Rocket is unguided AND dot of aim not start moove when we start shoot (so we not change pitch axis after start fire). So all rocket in GROPP have one calculating. So rockets spread its not a part of program, it is random.  
And computer  can not know where will be center of the salvo.  

What happens if you active pause, and then shoot?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Mosencev]

14 часов назад, MAXsenna сказал:

What happens if you active pause, and then shoot?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

Nothing new

 

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Edited October 28, 2024 by Mosencev

[TOViper]

Just besides all written above:
Didn't we come in the past to the conclusion that a more steep dive angle (e.g. 30°) should increase the probability for hitting the target significantly?
A very shallow angle increases the chances for the rockets to miss.

[Mosencev]

39 минут назад, TOViper сказал:

Just besides all written above:
Didn't we come in the past to the conclusion that a more steep dive angle (e.g. 30°) should increase the probability for hitting the target significantly?
A very shallow angle increases the chances for the rockets to miss.

It's not about high or low accuracy.
I was surprised by the words that  "computer calculates for the center point of the salvo".

It seems to me that the calculation for one missile and for the entire salvo should be the same. Because after the start of the salvo and until its end, there is no correction.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Mosencev

[Mosencev]

Just for example. When we fire from automatic rifle, we not need change aim when change single and auto mode.

[TOViper]

I don't know if I am now turning away from the point of which we are talking now, but IIRC the aim point that is shown in the HUD is for the 4th rocket in the salvo, so a few land short, a few land long and a few land very near or at that point.

If using ENKEL, the rocket leaving the pod is "the first" in the salvo, and I guess that is why it lands long (or was it short?!?)

But I might be wrong on that ... and I think I should now shut up and go for dinner ...

Edited October 28, 2024 by TOViper