fixed internally AI F-16 AAR during orbit takes 2x longer than in level flight (sometimes it never ends)

[sirrah]

I did some investigating, after experiencing in various missions, AI flight members never finishing AAR, while the tanker is in orbit. I wasn't able to quickly reproduce in a simple mission, but I did notice something else (possible related to the aforementioned bug?):

 

Perhaps intended behavior to simulate the slightly higher difficulty when air refueling in a turn (in which case: "hats off to ED" ), but during one of my missions, I noticed that it takes an AI F-16CM approximately double the time to refuel while in orbit, than it does in level flight.

 

I tested it with two identical missions. Only in one of them, the tanker enters orbit (speeds, alt, fuel qty, distance to tanker, pilot skill ace - all identical)

• The level flight Viper: connect after ±50sec -> disconnect ±2mins later
• The orbit Viper: connect after ±50sec ->disconnect ±4mins later

both miz and track files added

 

 

(Fun fact: I tried the orbit version with a rookie pilot and it seemed topped off sooner than the ace pilot )

 

AI F-16 AAR level flight - 2min.trk AI F-16 AAR orbit - 4min.trk AI F-16 AAR level flight.miz AI F-16 AAR orbit.miz

Edited November 14, 2024 by sirrah

[Linx]

I noticed the same. And it is not limited to AI F-16CM either, same thing happens with other AI planes.


What is more problematic, sometimes they do not even finish the AAR when the tanker is turning.

[sirrah]

4 minutes ago, Linx said:

What is more problematic, sometimes they do not even finish the AAR when the tanker is turning.

That is what I noticed as well, and was basically the reason I dived into this deeper. Although the longer refuel time isn't an issue, the indefinite/never finishing AI AAR bug is.

I wasn't able to reproduce the "never ending AI refueling when in orbit" in a simple mission, but I definitely had this issue as well.

I'm glad you chimed in on this. Hopefully this report gets noticed by someone from ED (I think I did my best to make a proper report, so some sort of reaction from ED would be nice)

[BIGNEWY]

 have spoken with the team, refuelling in an orbit is more difficult and the AI may not keep connected 100% while in the turn, of course if it isn't connected it wont receive fuel as they will need to reconnect. 

thank you 

 

[Mad_Shell]

3 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

 have spoken with the team, refuelling in an orbit is more difficult and the AI may not keep connected 100% while in the turn, of course if it isn't connected it wont receive fuel as they will need to reconnect. 

thank you 

 

But is that realistic? Don't pilots IRL manage to remain connected in such conditions? And will the new AI GFM will help solve this?

Edited November 14, 2024 by Mad_Shell

[BIGNEWY]

I hope the GFM will help, but I can not say for sure yet, work continues. 

[Dragon1-1]

It's very much not realistic, and it's not even that difficult to stay connected. IRL, a boom exerts some force on the jet that resists any drifting, and while a hose does not, the envelope is reasonably generous on most drogue tankers. It's challenging, but most pilots, once they get it, don't have problems with it.

Edited November 14, 2024 by Dragon1-1

[BIGNEWY]

we need improved hose and basket physics for that. It is planned but we have other tasks with a higher priority in front of it. 

[sirrah]

Also, the worrying part here, is that the other week I was flying alongside my F-16 wingman while he was doing AAR in orbit, and after 15 minutes of continuous formation flying, I gave up and went RTB. When I returned to base 20mins later, my wingman was still refueling... (unfortunately I didn't save that track file)

and apparently, seeing @Linx's post, I'm not alone here.

[JohnRedcorn]

Well, the solution is simple though. Just don't create missions with orbit AAR. The AI of both air and ground units in this game is dumb, so just don't give it task which are to complicated for it, problem solved.

[Linx]

9 hours ago, JohnRedcorn said:

Well, the solution is simple though. Just don't create missions with orbit AAR. The AI of both air and ground units in this game is dumb, so just don't give it task which are to complicated for it, problem solved.

Sadly, like with many other DCS things, this seems to be the case.

A "temporary" workaround is to give tanker a race-track orbit so that AI can at least refuel in the straight part of the track.
However, the refuel times will be very long.

Edited November 17, 2024 by Linx

[BIGNEWY]

The team have made some tweaks so we should see improvement in a future patch. 

thank you