Into the Jungle - Next Gen

[Mistermann]

4 hours ago, Devil 505 said:

I agree with this my friend.  I will talk to Kandy but I think we could honestly pull these statics out.  As much as it pains me to say it, they do not fit the time period.  When flying a client with the old army livery without the MMS, it feels like an old school Vietnam Ranger from the outside, but obviously modern day from inside. I think we can leave them as clients because the way we have them set up pulls off the Vietnam vibe but kill the statics to keep the visuals looking time period specific.  

These are statics spawned by StopGaps.  Every Kiowa static will have the same MMS/Modern looking static and we can't remove the MMS and tiedowns.  We can prevent the script from executing for Kiowas and prevent anything from spawning - no problem.

 

[Mistermann]

6 minutes ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

dummy here,   how do i play single player,  tried UH-1 transport from various areas.   I could get smoke on some objects, like logs at #10,000, or crates under a shed.  But I had no indications of where to transport items to.  I get no ATC instructions?   Any help appreciated.   The whole concept sounds great to me and would like to fly various missions in the Heuy

Its not really designed for SP although you can technically do so as has been discussed in this thread a fair amount.  

UH-1H transport?  I don't know what you mean.  Maybe @Devil 505 can lend a hand here - I've never transported a crate in DCS.  BUT ... as the designer of this mission I can tell you I didn't intentionally include that feature.  The CTLD script isn't part of this mission.  If you can move crates, its an unintended feature.

This mission is all about cooperative play, engaging random enemy groups throughout the map, and downed pilot rescue.  Its design is heavily influenced by the OH-6A and its ability to scout.  I encourage you to read the OP of this thread for specifics.  If you still have questions on how to play feel free to ask.  

My best advice, if you want to fly the Huey, is to climb into a Gunship and fly it down South, see what trouble you can get into.  If you want to move boxes around, there are much better missions out there geared specifically towards logistics.

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Misterman, thank you for your comments.   Just what I figured.   I will try some gunship missions and see what happens.

[Devil 505]

21 minutes ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

Misterman, thank you for your comments.   Just what I figured.   I will try some gunship missions and see what happens.

Hey my friend.  So, I laid down some cargo units to practice sling loading with the Huey and Chinook, but we have not yet incorporated any real functionality yet.  My intent was to at some point have each cargo unit provide an actual supply of weapons to the FARP, giving us reason to actually sling load cargo to the FARPs. 

Right now, we have a lot of irons in the fire bringing new functionality to the mission, so the actual sling load "objectives" are not implemented.  I would like to revisit the dynamic cargo options that came along with the Chinook and maybe see if it is worth implementing for those who like to deliver cargo/sling load.  We also have a pretty big Chinook update inbound so I would also like to see what comes along with that.  

For the time being, you can get close to the cargo, select what you want to hook up to with the F10 menu, then carry it and drop it anywhere.  More to come in the future on this probably.

[NIGHTHAWK1]

Devil  505   Thank you. I appreciate your future plans.  I realize not that many people do sling loads.   would be nice to see some troop transport also.  I thing the Huey was probably the most used aircraft in Nam.  

[Devil 505]

3 hours ago, NIGHTHAWK1 said:

would be nice to see some troop transport also

This is something we are definitely talking about.  We are tossing around several ideas.  It will come down to scripting and making it dynamic, so it is not the same every time.  I feel like we can pull it off for sure.  More to come.

As far as sling load goes, it is a niche thing, but I to enjoy it.  Especially in the Chinook now.  I found some more assets today that might make it even more entertaining.  More testing is required and again, making it meaningful and fun for the pilots is the goal.  Priority wise, it will be a little further down the line once we conquer some other ideas we have. Not forgotten though.  

[Devil 505]

Our best flight yet on ITJ! The Chinook is really becoming a favorite of mine to hear in game.  Time stamps included.  Check Zippers landing out! 

 

[Tonker]

Loved both the latest vids gents, and the new developments sound (and look) awesome. Looking forward to it

[Mistermann]

40 minutes ago, Tonker said:

Loved both the latest vids gents, and the new developments sound (and look) awesome. Looking forward to it

Thanks Tonker.

The changes we've made are happening at a fairly rapid pace.  At such a rapid pace that Devil and I are struggling a little bit to keep things coordinated as we both make changes.  The videos from Feb 7 were recorded using v2.009 and we're already making some changes and working on v2.010.  

There's been some good work since the release of v2.006 and I'd like to get most of these changes into your hands as soon as possible.  We're always flying the "latest" version which makes getting the community "caught up" a little more difficult because I don't want to drop bugs on you all.  BTW, the pace comes because we continue to have epic experiences in this mission (like you saw in the recordings) and think up ways to make the experience even better.  

As a little "tease" here are some of the things coming soon™

  : Devil's changes to Andersen - moved units down to Antonio B. Won Pat Intl to reduce performance requirements at Andersen
  : Restructured all random group spawning to leverage MIST to randomize placement of groups on the map. 
  : Labeled Southwest mountain range "Copperhead" on map
  : Fixed Chinook name in the CSAR script - the unit name should be "CH-47Fbl1"
  : Removed most of the static planes at Andersen as we now use StopGaps and have plenty of statics there because of it.
  : Added 8Ball CAP-Navy v2.1  This is REQUIRED (more to come on this)
  : Added new voiceovers to the mission initialization trigger.  These new voiceovers are randomized in the CSAR script so we now have different voiceovers for pilot pickups and dropoffs at MASH.  Gives a bit more variety and life to the CSAR element.

By far the biggest update is the randomization of the group placement using MIST.  You likely noticed some of our commentary on the videos regarding this change.  Placement of random appearing groups is now also randomized and makes the map feel very different each time you play.

As for "when" - I am planning on pushing the update sometime this upcoming weekend (Feb 15/16).  

Edited February 9 by Mistermann

[Tonker]

Sounds awesome

Woke up this morning with a bit of a thought:

Hmmm...

 

Obvs quite a few differences, but crucially the view from the cockpit would be very similar, armament is sympathetic to a Vietnam setting, and I think the SK-60 could wear an A-37 paintjob pretty well. Downloading now for testing!

[Devil 505]

Lengthy Feb update as to where we are and where we would like to go.  Showing off some new additions and some updates based on feedback.  Really enjoying making this come alive with the team and providing a rewarding experience to the community.  In the next update, you will be required to download a few more mods, but we felt it brought a deeper connection to the Vietnam feel.  We figured most of you would be ok with this.  More to come! 

 

Edited February 10 by Devil 505

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

Hey guys.  Looks like a lot of fun.  Appreciate all your work.

My squad has been trying it, but we found that when a player crashes their Huey, it is crashing their game.  

In the log I am seeing some errors involving getPlayerName.  Have you seen any thing like this?  

see attached log.

 

Thanks in advance,

CptTrips

 

[Edit]

1. I did consult the Oracle (i.e. ChatGPT) . 
2. [10:58 PM]

   Yes, there have been some known issues with Unit.getPlayerName() in DCS, particularly when used in scripting environments like MOOSE or mission scripts. Here are some common issues:

   1. Returns nil for AI Units
      • This function only works for human-controlled units. If you try to call it on an AI unit, it will return nil.

   2. Timing Issues in Multiplayer
      • In multiplayer missions, getPlayerName() might return nil when called too early (e.g., right after a player joins but before they fully occupy an aircraft). A workaround is to use event handlers and delay checking until the player is fully in the aircraft.

   3. Issues with Clients in Multiplayer
      • In some cases, getPlayerName() may not return the correct name when used with dynamically spawned units or when checking from a server-side script.

   4. Desync with Slot Changes
      • If a player changes slots, the function might return outdated information for a short period. Using S_EVENT_PLAYER_ENTER_UNIT and S_EVENT_BIRTH event handlers can help ensure accurate retrieval.

   Workarounds:

   • Use S_EVENT_BIRTH or S_EVENT_PLAYER_ENTER_UNIT to detect when a player spawns in.
   • Add a slight delay before retrieving getPlayerName(), especially in multiplayer.
   • Ensure the unit you're calling it on is actually a player-controlled aircraft.

dcs.log

 

Edited February 12 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Devil 505]

14 hours ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

Hey guys.  Looks like a lot of fun.  Appreciate all your work.

My squad has been trying it, but we found that when a player crashes their Huey, it is crashing their game.  

In the log I am seeing some errors involving getPlayerName.  Have you seen any thing like this?  

see attached log.

 

Thanks in advance,

CptTrips

 

[Edit]

1. I did consult the Oracle (i.e. ChatGPT) . 
2. [10:58 PM]

   Yes, there have been some known issues with Unit.getPlayerName() in DCS, particularly when used in scripting environments like MOOSE or mission scripts. Here are some common issues:

   1. Returns nil for AI Units
      • This function only works for human-controlled units. If you try to call it on an AI unit, it will return nil.

   2. Timing Issues in Multiplayer
      • In multiplayer missions, getPlayerName() might return nil when called too early (e.g., right after a player joins but before they fully occupy an aircraft). A workaround is to use event handlers and delay checking until the player is fully in the aircraft.

   3. Issues with Clients in Multiplayer
      • In some cases, getPlayerName() may not return the correct name when used with dynamically spawned units or when checking from a server-side script.

   4. Desync with Slot Changes
      • If a player changes slots, the function might return outdated information for a short period. Using S_EVENT_PLAYER_ENTER_UNIT and S_EVENT_BIRTH event handlers can help ensure accurate retrieval.

   Workarounds:

   • Use S_EVENT_BIRTH or S_EVENT_PLAYER_ENTER_UNIT to detect when a player spawns in.
   • Add a slight delay before retrieving getPlayerName(), especially in multiplayer.
   • Ensure the unit you're calling it on is actually a player-controlled aircraft.

dcs.log 938.73 kB · 1 download

 

Let me talk to Kandy about this.  He understands the scripts better than me for sure.  Just for reference, are you running this online through an ED server or are you using a dedicated server? I have flown the Huey a lot and have to admit crashed a lot as well without having this issue.  We can dig into it and see what might be causing it.

[PhartyMiasma]

Awesome mission, thank-you so much for all the effort which has gone into this!  I have spent so many hours in this.

I have been playing this with a chum and found the stutter/slideshow issue, we have been messing around trying to figure out the cause and it seems to be trucks.
To be clear this is not a micro-stutter or the odd dropped frames but a case of it becoming one frame every 2 or 3 seconds.
Editing the group and moving any truck to the other side of the island seems to fix this and removes all stutter.

The behaviour we have seen is:
Single player, avoiding enemy no problem at all.
Single player, engage enemy when there is NO truck in their group, no problem.
Single player, engage enemy when there IS a truck, stutter.  However, if you manage to not crash it will clear up and not happen again in that session.
This happens even if the graphics settings are turned down to 'potato' level.
Multiplayer is the same for the person hosting the game, the other player has no issue.

My conclusion is that something about trucks which is causing huge tasking of the CPU.  It can't be GPU related as moving trucks to a long way off fixes it.

I also suspect that if this is hosted on a separate server box and all the players join that session there will be no issue.

 

Hope that helps anyone that might be experiencing this.

 

 

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

53 minutes ago, Devil 505 said:

Let me talk to Kandy about this.  He understands the scripts better than me for sure.  Just for reference, are you running this online through an ED server or are you using a dedicated server? I have flown the Huey a lot and have to admit crashed a lot as well without having this issue.  We can dig into it and see what might be causing it.

Hi Devil.  Thanks for the quick response.  

Currently I am running on a Dedicated Server on a separate box from my client machine.  Others, hitting the server with their machine remotely have seen the same crashes, so I assume it is not an environmental issue specific to my machine.  I just recently pulled the mission so I assume it is the latest code.

I haven't dove in deeply yet debugging.  I wanted to just check if it was already a known issues.

I suspect it has something to do with the CSAR code.

I did see a hint that Moose recently fixed something concerning getPlayerName.  

https://github.com/FlightControl-Master/MOOSE/pull/2209

The mission doesn't appear to be using Moose, but maybe they saw the same problem and came up with a fix on their framework to get around it.  I haven't reviewed that fix or whether it could be adapted to your script.  Maybe that is a path your code guy could research.

I seem to be able to repro it well, so if there is any testing I can do for you to help (like running a test version of the mission with additional script logging statements), let me know or I can give your code guy the pwd to my server and he can go try it himself and see if he can repro.

 

Cheers,

CptTrips

 

 

Edited February 12 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Mistermann]

16 hours ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

Hey guys.  Looks like a lot of fun.  Appreciate all your work.

My squad has been trying it, but we found that when a player crashes their Huey, it is crashing their game.  

In the log I am seeing some errors involving getPlayerName.  Have you seen any thing like this?  

Short answer is NO.  Never seen DCS crash when any player aircraft crashes ... and we definitely crash Hueys during our gameplay.

Given we've never experienced this, I'd speculate there's some sort of conflict in your setup.  Possibly mod conflicts (I have a love/hate rapport with mods).  Hopefully you're using a mod manager and can remove all mods except those required by Into The Jungle and test again.

Edited February 12 by Mistermann

[Mistermann]

Welcome to the party.

1 hour ago, PhartyMiasma said:

I have been playing this with a chum and found the stutter/slideshow issue, we have been messing around trying to figure out the cause and it seems to be trucks.
To be clear this is not a micro-stutter or the odd dropped frames but a case of it becoming one frame every 2 or 3 seconds.

I posted a video a few pages back showing the "slideshow" on my machine.  The fix released in v2.006 seemed to reduce the problem for many.  If you're not running that version, I'd encourage you to download it.

1 hour ago, PhartyMiasma said:

The behaviour we have seen is:
Single player, avoiding enemy no problem at all.
Single player, engage enemy when there is NO truck in their group, no problem.
Single player, engage enemy when there IS a truck, stutter.  However, if you manage to not crash it will clear up and not happen again in that session.
This happens even if the graphics settings are turned down to 'potato' level.
Multiplayer is the same for the person hosting the game, the other player has no issue.

My conclusion is that something about trucks which is causing huge tasking of the CPU.  It can't be GPU related as moving trucks to a long way off fixes it.

I also suspect that if this is hosted on a separate server box and all the players join that session there will be no issue.

I am pretty sure every group has a truck.  That's the intent.  If a group is missing one, I need to fix that. 

The trucks play a very important role in groups - they replenish ammo.  Without trucks, the groups run out of ammo and you're left with a neutered environment with no one shooting at you.  We experienced this very early on in the creation of this mission and opted to add supply trucks to every group.

So what causes the slideshow???  My theory here is this special type of truck (I listed them all out a few pages back) causes some sort of core DCS housekeeping to occur when damaged.  I suspect whatever housekeeping that's happening is poorly optimized and probably 20+ years old.  We simply don't notice any lag whatsoever in a Dedicated server environment.  That's likely because the calculations are happening on the server rather than our client machines.

Anyone removing the Ural's from groups and map placements risks breaking the mission, so just be aware of what purpose those trucks serve - it is far more than just a target.

 

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

28 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

Short answer is NO.  Never seen DCS crash when any player aircraft crashes ... and we definitely crash Hueys during our gameplay.

Given we've never experienced this, I'd speculate there's some sort of conflict in your setup.  Possibly mod conflicts (I have a love/hate rapport with mods).  Hopefully you're using a mod manager and can remove all mods except those required by Into The Jungle and test again.

The only Mods I have installed on either the server or my game machine are the mods you specified as required for the mission.  

They were freshly downloaded and installed the day I downloaded your mission.

 

I'll test again and see if I can narrow down a pattern.

Edited February 12 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Mistermann]

1 minute ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

The only Mods I have installed on either the server or my game machine are the mods you specified as required for the mission.  

They were freshly downloaded and installed the day I downloaded your mission.

Well so much for that idea.

MOOSE is not used in the mission.

The version of MIST running in the mission is 4.5.126.  There is a newer version out on Github called 4.5.126 FIXES released on April 3, 2024.  I'll download and incorporate into the next I2J version.  You may want to download that and see if it makes a difference.

 

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

I'm got some more possible test cases to try but let me specify my test case so we can test the same canonical action.

 

1.  Log onto a MP Dedicated Server running the mission.

2.  Go straight to [Olf Orte] UH-1H and spawn.

3.  Perform Autostart sequence.  No ground crew rearm\refuel.

4.  After started, take off climb a couple of hundred feet and intentionally nose into the dirt and explode.

5.  Client crash.

 

 

null

 

Edited February 12 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Mistermann]

7 minutes ago, [HOUNDS] CptTrips said:

I'm got some more possible test cases to try but let me specify my test case so we can test the same canonical action.

 

1.  Log onto a MP Dedicated Server running the mission.

2.  Go straight to [Olf Orte] UH-1H and spawn.

3.  Perform Autostart sequence.  No ground crew rearm\refuel.

4.  After started, take off climb a couple of hundred feet and intentionally nose into the dirt and explode.

5.  Client crash.

Awesome - seems pretty easy to replicate.  I will see what happens for me when I do this.  Thanks.

[Mistermann]

33 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

Awesome - seems pretty easy to replicate.  I will see what happens for me when I do this.  Thanks.

@[HOUNDS] CptTrips

I followed your steps from above and everything works just fine.  I have a recording that I'll put together and share.  Maybe I'm doing something different, so it'll be good to see what I am doing in the video compared to your experience.

- My first test was a cold start.  Took off to about 300' and nosed it into Olf.  No game crash.
- Second test was to do an Autostart.  Took off to about 300' and nosed it into Olf.  No game crash.

Are you getting the CSAR voiceover when you crash into the ground?  If you want to turn OFF the CSAR script as a test, flip the flag in the initialization trigger to off and see if that's somehow causing the issue. 

It'd be odd however, since I'm not seeing the problem here.

Lastly, from time to time I find doing a DCS repair (Slow, looking for unwanted files) sometimes corrects strange glitches.  Make sure to do it on the server and your client.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

32 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

@[HOUNDS] CptTrips

I followed your steps from above and everything works just fine.  I have a recording that I'll put together and share.  Maybe I'm doing something different, so it'll be good to see what I am doing in the video compared to your experience.

- My first test was a cold start.  Too

 

I'll look into that.

I'm currently looking at the log a littler closer to see if I can see another clue.

You might try the autostart first.  I didn't do a manual cold start.  Not sure why that would matter.

I didn't hear any CSAR message.  The game locks the instant of impact.

 

 

As a debugging test, would you mind logging into my server and trying my test case to see if you can repro it that way?  That would eliminate my game machine from the equation.

If so I will DM you the login info.

 

Edited February 12 by [HOUNDS] CptTrips

[Mistermann]

Happy to.

[[HOUNDS] CptTrips]

Just a datapoint...

 

I tried turning off the CSAR but I still get a crash.

I ran locally on my game machine as SP and did not get a crash.   Not sure what that implies.

I will DM you shortly with the login.  I'm setting it back to the original mission.  It will be back up in a sec.

Thanks.