Hunting for the stutter-free VR experience.

[Panzerlang]

13 minutes ago, Special K said:

You need a pagefile, that was not a good advise.
Windows virtual memory management is built around pagefiles. And you still want to have valuable RAM available and long-time-no-see RAM pages paged out, even with 64 GB. You can have it on system managed though.

Do you have resizable BAR enabled?

Yes, BAR is enabled. 

DxDiag.txt

[Mr_sukebe]

Try setting Textures to medium

[Blackhawk163]

The whole HAGS thing leaves me head spinning. Some say on, others say off. Is this a processor dependent thing, GPU driven? I've left mine on with no ill effects.

[Special K]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Blackhawk163:

The whole HAGS thing leaves me head spinning. Some say on, others say off. Is this a processor dependent thing, GPU driven? I've left mine on with no ill effects.

It can be that you have no issues at all, but usually if you use any other application that uses your GPU, which can be Discord or YouTube, you can see stutters. That is why I usually ask to turn it off.

[Ready]

In my case disabling HAGS reduces average FPS by about 7-10, the 1% lows get an even bigger hit. I would say test your game with and without HAGS. It can be different. Also close all the apps you are not using when playing DCS. To me that also makes a very big difference. 

Edited December 29, 2024 by Ready

[Blackhawk163]

2 hours ago, Special K said:

It can be that you have no issues at all, but usually if you use any other application that uses your GPU, which can be Discord or YouTube, you can see stutters. That is why I usually ask to turn it off.

Thanks! DCS and Pimax play are the only things that are open aside from whatever is running natively in the background. I’m in VR and don’t record my sessions nor am able to watch YouTube on the pc. If I’m stuck in a mission that I can’t hack, I’ll just pick up me phone and launch YouTube and watch it on there either while in AP or just pause outright

[Habu_69]

I can only say that a stutter free experience is achievable with current generation hardware. My PC specs are similar to Panzerlang's, except my CPU is Ryzen 7800X3D. RTX 4090 and 64 MB DDR4. My headset is BigScreen Beyond bound to 75 FPS, most DCS settings set near max. I have no stutters or apparent FPS issues flying a Hornet low in busy multiplayer server missions, mostly PG map.

[MarkyMarkUK]

When I was on my PICO4 with VD DCS was great, now with Pimax Crystal Light, stutter city. The only thing that fixed it for me was setting the Quality to LOW in the Pimax Play client, now I can play DCS with all graphics maxed and with QV and DLSS on.

[Moxica]

41 minutes ago, MarkyMarkUK said:

When I was on my PICO4 with VD DCS was great, now with Pimax Crystal Light, stutter city. The only thing that fixed it for me was setting the Quality to LOW in the Pimax Play client, now I can play DCS with all graphics maxed and with QV and DLSS on.

Same here. No DCS setting change the micro stutters, which is there regardless of FPS.
I suspect Pimax Play (including the eight to ten other PI processes running) to be not-quite-right.
Stutters kinda remind me of tracking problems.
I have this microstutter even in DCS menus.

Edited December 29, 2024 by Moxica

[Keith Briscoe]

Same. And I have PCL. 

[Panzerlang]

I enabled HAGS and did a test flight. At the margins I'm getting it's kind of hard to know if there's a real difference but I did get the feeling there were less micro-stutters, just the same micro-jerks (inconsequential, because I really have to look for them). I'm going to leave it enabled. FPS window, almost entirely red "CPU Bound, Main Thread". Previous test was with everything connected to running DCS excluded from Windows Defender. Can't say I saw a jot of difference with all that done.

I'm of course wondering if HAGS will do better with a 5090. The more load that can be taken off the CPU the better, right? Plus the Crystal Super will almost certainly need the 5090's extra horse power.

7 hours ago, Moxica said:

Same here. No DCS setting change the micro stutters, which is there regardless of FPS.
I suspect Pimax Play (including the eight to ten other PI processes running) to be not-quite-right.
Stutters kinda remind me of tracking problems.
I have this microstutter even in DCS menus.

I'm still pointing my finger at your CPU. I'm clueless about AMD, broadly speaking, but can your mobo accommodate a 7800X3D?

[Panzerlang]

Oh, might be a clue...running in 2D, the FPS windows shows exclusively green and yellow "CPU Bound, Rendering Thread".
In VR, exclusively red "CPU Bound, Main Thread".

So, VR is hitting the CPU very hard. Is that a Pimax thing or is it the same regardless of headset brand?

Edited December 30, 2024 by Panzerlang

[Moxica]

11 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

I'm still pointing my finger at your CPU. I'm clueless about AMD, broadly speaking, but can your mobo accommodate a 7800X3D?

Sadly, no. Wrong socket. (AM4 vs AM5)
Could try a Ryzen 7 5800X3D though..

Edited December 30, 2024 by Moxica

[Moxica]

11 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

Oh, might be a clue...running in 2D, the FPS windows shows exclusively green and yellow "CPU Bound, Rendering Thread".
In VR, exclusively red "CPU Bound, Main Thread".

So, VR is hitting the CPU very hard. Is that a Pimax thing or is it the same regardless of headset brand?

I was good with my HP Reverb G2's. Got rid of all stutter.
 

[Panzerlang]

12 hours ago, Moxica said:

I was good with my HP Reverb G2's. Got rid of all stutter.
 

If my Pico4 was 'plug & play' on the ethernet cable I'd give it a go. I can't remember how it was with DCS. I do know I seriously considered going back to it after firing up the Crystal for the first time.

[Moxica]

I got an email from Pimax support today. This one is not available from app yet. Program and firmware update:

https://pimax.com/pages/downloads-manuals

[ischicopter]

Have you tried Turbo mode in OpenXR Toolkit?

This fixed all stutter issues for me. Also in MSFS. 

I have been playing the A-10C in SP for 2 hours yesterday without any issues. That´s on a 6 year old RTX2070, Quest 3 via VD in Godlike (max) Resolution. To be clear: no stutter, no ghosting, perfectly smooth gameplay at 80hz with SSW always on and DCS "VR" graphics Preset, I believe.

Feel free to ask for more detail

 

 

 

[WipeUout]

Saw a post yesterday suggesting to cap your FPS in DCS in order to have a smoother experience.

Tried and found out that capping FPS in DCS settings can cause stutters.  My HMD refresh rate is set to 90hz, so I capped FPS at 90.  Bad idea, i was experiencing micro stutters mostly visible when looking at the ground on either side from the cockpit.  I then capped my FPS at 95 in DCS (only multiples of 5 are possible) and then stutters gone!  Capping FPS can free resources and help with a smoother experice but capping too close to your refresh rate may degrade the experience.  That is what I experienced at least. 

[Moxica]

23 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

Saw a post yesterday suggesting to cap your FPS in DCS in order to have a smoother experience.

Tried and found out that capping FPS in DCS settings can cause stutters.  My HMD refresh rate is set to 90hz, so I capped FPS at 90.  Bad idea, i was experiencing micro stutters mostly visible when looking at the ground on either side from the cockpit.  I then capped my FPS at 95 in DCS (only multiples of 5 are possible) and then stutters gone!  Capping FPS can free resources and help with a smoother experice but capping too close to your refresh rate may degrade the experience.  That is what I experienced at least. 

Will try immediately. (Mine is 90 atm)

[ischicopter]

capping the framerate should not do anything for VR performance. If your PC is rendering more frames than whatever the refresh rate of your HMD is, you have a whole different issue.

[lefuneste01]

6 minutes ago, ischicopter said:

capping the framerate should not do anything for VR performance. If your PC is rendering more frames than whatever the refresh rate of your HMD is, you have a whole different issue.

In my testing I fund capping fps to a value slightly higher than your target fps  is giving  a smoother  experience.

[Moxica]

3 hours ago, ischicopter said:

Have you tried Turbo mode in OpenXR Toolkit?

This fixed all stutter issues for me. Also in MSFS. 

I have been playing the A-10C in SP for 2 hours yesterday without any issues. That´s on a 6 year old RTX2070, Quest 3 via VD in Godlike (max) Resolution. To be clear: no stutter, no ghosting, perfectly smooth gameplay at 80hz with SSW always on and DCS "VR" graphics Preset, I believe.

Feel free to ask for more detail

 

 

 

No.  OpenXR toolkit does not support Quadview.
Mbucchia has called it obsolete..

[WipeUout]

22 minutes ago, ischicopter said:

capping the framerate should not do anything for VR performance. If your PC is rendering more frames than whatever the refresh rate of your HMD is, you have a whole different issue.

Before the GPU processes the frame it has been prepared by the CPU.  Having less frame to process unload the CPU as well, and if the CPU rendering thread is overwhelmed, then it will make a difference.  Generating an image is team work involving the CPU, the memory controller and the GPU!

[WipeUout]

11 minutes ago, Moxica said:

No.  OpenXR toolkit does not support Quadview.
Mbucchia has called it obsolete..

OXRTK works with Quadviews, OXRTK is not supported anymore but still very usefull for many settings and objective measurement of performance in VR.

[ischicopter]

Guys, your FPS are supposed to be "capped", rather synced, by your HMD. If you find yourself having to limit your FPS with 3rd party software, something is wrong with your Setup.

In a functioning Setup, limiting your frames should have no impact whatsoever. Especially limiting it beyond your headsets refresh rate, since it should already be capped by the runtime.

Just get MSI Afterburner and monitor your FPS. Does it go beyond your refresh rate? If yes you have a whole other problem

Edited December 31, 2024 by ischicopter