Where to start flying the AH-64D ??

[GAJ52]

I have been flying the A-10C most of my time within DCS with some time on the KA-50 Blackshark 3, this is from the early days of DCS.

I thought I need to learn another aircraft type so have been looking at the F/A-18C or the AH-64D.  Scanning Chuck's guide for the Apache, I cannot see how anyone can master this very complicated aircraft.

Can anyone give me any pointers how to start learning the systems and combat techniques of the AH-64D before I give up and learn the F/A-18C instead.

Glen

[Raptor9]

Hello @GAJ52. You can find several resources on the main DCS AH-64D forum section, which includes a link to Wags's youtube playlist. However, as with many of his videos, keep in mind he normally shows a video of features in early access so they may not precisely represent their final state, but they just provide a broad overview of module features. And of course you've already seen Chuck's Guide which provides a very illustrative format for instruction. There is also the official DCS Early Access Guide which can be found on your computer if you've installed the DCS AH-64D module, located below next to the red arrow; or it can be manually downloaded from this link.

The DCS AH-64D Early Access Guide includes a more thorough description of the aircraft, systems, sensors, and weapons. Each chapter is iterative, in that it begins with a broad overview of the chapter topic, followed by explanations and graphics of each MPD page or aspect of the chapter topic, and then (when applicable), provides a step-by-step procedure with accompanying illustrations that explain how to accomplish each step of the procedure. Finally, Appendix A in the back provides abbreviated checklist procedures without the illustrations which may be more conducive to use when actually playing a mission, and is optimized for use on electronic devices such as tablets with hyperlink navigation.

You can also find this thread by BradMick (who has spent many years as a professional AH-64 instructor pilot) pinned to the main AH-64D forum section, in which he provides various video tutorials regarding flight maneuvers and procedures, using the force trim, navigation systems, and a little bit on using the TADS.

Hope you enjoy yourself.

[rcjonessnp175]

32 minutes ago, GAJ52 said:

I have been flying the A-10C most of my time within DCS with some time on the KA-50 Blackshark 3, this is from the early days of DCS.

I thought I need to learn another aircraft type so have been looking at the F/A-18C or the AH-64D.  Scanning Chuck's guide for the Apache, I cannot see how anyone can master this very complicated aircraft.

Can anyone give me any pointers how to start learning the systems and combat techniques of the AH-64D before I give up and learn the F/A-18C instead.

Glen

Similar to you I'm from the old days of dcs and well Black shark.  Its a whole new world now with multi seat platforms and i think that throws allot of this off especially if you don't Multiplayer 24/7.....  Even as good as the co pilot Ai is getting, to me trying to learn and master a module that is multi seat is certainly a whole different worm.  Trying that now with the F15E.  Apache is my all time favorite, but think I'm going to give the Apache some more maturing time before deep diving it.

I aint no learning module scientist but for all modules,  i do the crawl walk run way of learning.  Startup to properly flying patterns and then get to the combat stuff.  

Amazing time to be a combat sim pilot so many choices now compared to back in the day it was just the shark and the hog.  just my two cents 

[GAJ52]

27 minutes ago, Raptor9 said:

Hello @GAJ52. You can find several resources on the main DCS AH-64D forum section, which includes a link to Wags's youtube playlist. However, as with many of his videos, keep in mind he normally shows a video of features in early access so they may not precisely represent their final state, but they just provide a broad overview of module features. And of course you've already seen Chuck's Guide which provides a very illustrative format for instruction. There is also the official DCS Early Access Guide which can be found on your computer if you've installed the DCS AH-64D module, located below next to the red arrow; or it can be manually downloaded from this link.

The DCS AH-64D Early Access Guide includes a more thorough description of the aircraft, systems, sensors, and weapons. Each chapter is iterative, in that it begins with a broad overview of the chapter topic, followed by explanations and graphics of each MPD page or aspect of the chapter topic, and then (when applicable), provides a step-by-step procedure with accompanying illustrations that explain how to accomplish each step of the procedure. Finally, Appendix A in the back provides abbreviated checklist procedures without the illustrations which may be more conducive to use when actually playing a mission, and is optimized for use on electronic devices such as tablets with hyperlink navigation.

You can also find this thread by BradMick (who has spent many years as a professional AH-64 instructor pilot) pinned to the main AH-64D forum section, in which he provides various video tutorials regarding flight maneuvers and procedures, using the force trim, navigation systems, and a little bit on using the TADS.

Hope you enjoy yourself.

Thanks for your comments, despite having been a long term DCS user I didn't think of using the DCS Early access manual, I have just relied on YouTube videos and Chuck's great guides

[GAJ52]

16 minutes ago, rcjonessnp175 said:

Similar to you I'm from the old days of dcs and well Black shark.  Its a whole new world now with multi seat platforms and i think that throws allot of this off especially if you don't Multiplayer 24/7.....  Even as good as the co pilot Ai is getting, to me trying to learn and master a module that is multi seat is certainly a whole different worm.  Trying that now with the F15E.  Apache is my all time favorite, but think I'm going to give the Apache some more maturing time before deep diving it.

I aint no learning module scientist but for all modules,  i do the crawl walk run way of learning.  Startup to properly flying patterns and then get to the combat stuff.  

Amazing time to be a combat sim pilot so many choices now compared to back in the day it was just the shark and the hog.  just my two cents 

Your two cents definitely apply to me and I agree with everything you said.  I feel sometimes as a more mature combat simmer things are now moving away from my capabilities especially with aircraft like the very well simulated Apache.

[scommander2]

There are lots of YouTube videos for AH-64D, and I found the following channel contains "fast & easy" for AH-64D:

(327) Callsign Grimey - YouTube

His videos do help for me a lots!!

 

Edited January 2 by scommander2

[Leg2ion]

Hi @GAJ52.  Think there are a few of us the same - my main ride (though still learning) is the A10C, though learnt this after the Blackshark - which I have for the most part now forgotten how to fly/fight (took it up the other day and it was a disaster!)

Agree with @rcjonessnp175 - slowly does it. The training missions bundled with the AH are OK as well, and get you used to taxi, hover, hover taxi and into fwd flight before starting on the weapons. I can now take off, land, hover (for the most part where I want and not where it wants!) and have just started weapons school - after an age - but its worth it - though with the odd dip back into the A10 to keep current (and just blow stuff up!)

 

[GAJ52]

Many thanks guys for the great advice.

I've looked at many videos and Chucks guide but completely forgot about the Manual that comes with the Sim (another senior moment).  I remember playing Janes Apache Longbow many years ago and loved sneaking up on the enemy from behind a hill using the Fire Control Radar, I would love to do the again in DCS 

[Greyman]

I think I might be getting a little slower on the uptake, with my advancing age, as I'm finding learning the Apache more of a challenge than I remember the A10C and Hornet being, for example.

Please tell me it is just a more complicated aircraft to fly. 

 

 

 

[admiki]

Helicopters are always more complicated to fly compared to FW.

[MAXsenna]

Helicopters are always more complicated to fly compared to FW.

Until it clicks...

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[bfr]

I'd just focus on learning to fly it first and don't even bother trying to fight in it until you've begun to master that. I went down a similar path myself late last year (did a trial and then bought it in the Xmas Sale a couple of months later) and even with a few hours on the clock i've barely gone beyond trying to make the thing move without breaking it (and I still break it, a lot).  Helos in DCS are hard, although i'm getting better at it and I usually at least know why i've cocked up (90% because i've tried to rush something) when I reduce yet another virtual $15m of hardware to a confetti of metal and composite.

[MAXsenna]

I'd just focus on learning to fly it first and don't even bother trying to fight in it until you've begun to master that. I went down a similar path myself late last year (did a trial and then bought it in the Xmas Sale a couple of months later) and even with a few hours on the clock i've barely gone beyond trying to make the thing move without breaking it (and I still break it, a lot).  Helos in DCS are hard, although i'm getting better at it and I usually at least know why i've cocked up (90% because i've tried to rush something) when I reduce yet another virtual $15m of hardware to a confetti of metal and composite.

DCS helis loves ab FFB/non-centering cyclic, physical collective/(throttle, I find it best to invert throttles) and physical non-centering pedals. Now, this does come with a price tag. While you WILL do better more quickly.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[bfr]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

DCS helis loves ab FFB/non-centering cyclic, physical collective/(throttle, I find it best to invert throttles) and physical non-centering pedals. Now, this does come with a price tag. While you WILL do better more quickly.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

 

I've adapted steering wheel pedals as rudder pedals for now (its a set with a clutch pedal so the size and spring resistance is identical for both, just need to remember to lift one foot as you press with the other!) and it works pretty well. I may treat myself to proper pedals eventually.  Cyclic is a sprung desktop stick but not doing too bad with that. Definitely feel like i'm making progress, albeit slowly, and its a nice challenge. I think the hardest part is getting the muscle memory to adjust collective in the correct fashion in response to certain cyclic inputs.

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, bfr said:

I've adapted steering wheel pedals as rudder pedals for now (its a set with a clutch pedal so the size and spring resistance is identical for both, just need to remember to lift one foot as you press with the other!) and it works pretty well.

Being adaptive is crucial! 

 

1 hour ago, bfr said:

Cyclic is a sprung desktop stick but not doing too bad with that.

Once you get the trimming , it\s way easier. If you ever have the chance of picking up a cheap second hand joystick, take out the springs, wrap some rubber bands around it, (clutch), and tape a pat of a broom stick, (extension), to it, Notice how much easier it is. Works probably best with the Huey, as you can turn off the force trim.

 

[bfr]

12 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Once you get the trimming , it\s way easier. If you ever have the chance of picking up a cheap second hand joystick, take out the springs, wrap some rubber bands around it, (clutch), and tape a pat of a broom stick, (extension), to it, Notice how much easier it is. Works probably best with the Huey, as you can turn off the force trim.

 

 

Yeah, i'd love an extended joystick but space limitations say no. And yes, trimming is important (one of the first things I picked up in my protracted flight training).

[MAXsenna]

Yeah, i'd love an extended joystick but space limitations say no. And yes, trimming is important (one of the first things I picked up in my protracted flight training).

Ah, yeah. Understand. Oh, these restraints we have to live under.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[ShuRugal]

On 1/2/2025 at 9:42 AM, GAJ52 said:

I have been flying the A-10C most of my time within DCS with some time on the KA-50 Blackshark 3, this is from the early days of DCS.

I thought I need to learn another aircraft type so have been looking at the F/A-18C or the AH-64D.  Scanning Chuck's guide for the Apache, I cannot see how anyone can master this very complicated aircraft.

Can anyone give me any pointers how to start learning the systems and combat techniques of the AH-64D before I give up and learn the F/A-18C instead.

Glen

I'm late to this discussion, but for someone looking to transition from Fixed Wing to the AH-64, here's the order I'd recommend tackling things:

1. start with the back seat
2. set up your HOTAS bindings.  You probably won't have enough hat switches for everything, so this is the order i would prioritize:
   1. STICK:
      1. trigger
      2. trim hat (absolutely critical for a good flying experience, control trim and autopilot modes, you'll use this a lot, so put it where your thumb can reach it with no trouble)
      3. Weapon Action Selector (WAS) hat - you can leave A2A unbound, it doesn't do anything, but you'll want rockets/guns/missile where you can get at them in a hurry
      4. chaff and flare buttons - self descriptive, i hope
      5. Symbology switch - this is used to change modes on your head-mounted display, not super critical, but you do need it occasionally
      6. George commands HAT - you will need these to tell george to shoot things, or to tell him to lase for you to shoot
   2. COLLECTIVE (or throttle, if you only have that)
      1. Cursors controller - if you have an analog thumb stick on your throttle, use it for this
         1. cursor enter key - does what it says
         2. cursor display select - optional, but nice to have.  if you don't bind it, you can move cursor between displays by slewing to edge, but this can be slow.
      2. sight select - selects what sensor you will use to aim waepons.  I don't think pilot can select TADS, even though it's physically there, but you definitely need HMD, FCR, and LINK
      3. polarity - changes HMD night vision feed between white and black hot (boresight does nothing, don't bind it)
      4. FCR Scan - bind both fwd and back, commands the FCR to scan for targets when FCR is selected sight
      5. FCR scan size - changes the FoV of the FCR, put this on a shift modifier if you are out of hat switches
      6. FCR mode - switches FCR operation modes, put this on a shift modifier if you are out of hat switches
      7. NVS select - optional, changes between using the PNVS and TADS as night vision sensor - default for pilot is PNVS and i recommend leaving it there
3. Flight - once you are happy with your basic HOTAS setup, focus on getting a feel for flying the bird.  A lot of people complain about the AH64 flight model, but I think this helicopter is an absolute joy to fly.  it's not as nimble as the Black Shark, but it will do a lot more than people here give it credit for.  load up some rocket pods and about 60% fuel and take it for a spin.
4. guns and rocket - once you have a good feel for the way she flies, play with the gun and rockets.  you can fire both of these from the back using the HMD.  Using them this way is pretty intuitive, and feels satisfying.
5. laser hellfire missiles - you will need to interact with George for this.  open his menu, leave him on "no weapon", and tell him to look for targets (there are YT videos for this if he's giving you trouble, but he's relatively intuitive to use).  Once he finds some targets, select one from the list and command george to lase it.  Once he says "laser on", select hellfires and aim the helicoper to line up the cues.  when you are lined up, shoot.  you can also tell george to use the hellfires, and he has modes to fire on-command or at-will.
6. FCR and Radar hellfires - i strongly recommend watching some YT videos on how to use the FCR.  i find it very intuitive once you understand its limits, but its limits and design are NOT compatible with the logic you will be used to from fixed-wing aircraft.  Once you get used to how it works, it's VERY fun to use, though.
7. datalink - currently only works in multiplayer, you will need a buddy to use the datalink with.  very powerful feature, but it is NOT a link-16 and it does things very differently.  haven't played with it much because i have no friends.  

the FCR can be used to aim all weapons, not just radar hellfires, and can be controlled from the back seat, which gives you a LOT of options.  you can also use the LINK function to aim the TADS at FCR targets for visual ID (or to help George find <profanity>), and you can turn on C-scope mode to pass FCR target symbology to your HMD and the TADS.

[GAJ52]

This has given me something to think about, thank you very much for taking the time to answer