VIP/VRP Offset Question

[Scotch75]

G'day Folks,

 

I just wanted to check my understanding of VIP/VRP etc. If the JTAC gives me target coordinates, for example, 240/13 from Steerpoint 3, am I best using VIP mode for this? If so, am I able to snap the TGP to this new offset point? Or do I use VRP? I've also looked at OA 1 and 2, but you need to input the distance as feet, which is impracticable as you will need some big numbers.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

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[skywalker22]

You need VIP mode, because you are offsetting from your steerpoint towards your target. That steerpoint 3 will be your initial point towards your target.

Check how Wag well explains everything here.

[Scotch75]

Ok, I was thinking that was the case. So once I have gone over the IP (Steerpoint 3 in my example), with HUD as SOI, I press TMS up. If I'm not using a PUP, what is the switchology to make the TGP snap to this new point (SPI) so I can get eyes on the target? Cheers!

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[skywalker22]

1 hour ago, Scotch75 said:

Ok, I was thinking that was the case. So once I have gone over the IP (Steerpoint 3 in my example), with HUD as SOI, I press TMS up. If I'm not using a PUP, what is the switchology to make the TGP snap to this new point (SPI) so I can get eyes on the target? Cheers!

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If you press on OSB 10, and set to TGT, it should slew the TGP to the VIP point. Never tried it though.

[Scotch75]

If you press on OSB 10, and set to TGT, it should slew the TGP to the VIP point. Never tried it though.

Ok, I'll give it a try. Many thanks.

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[skywalker22]

Just to mention, realisticly when using VIP or VRP modes, you have to fly low (to not get shot down by any SAMs), so TGP is pretty much uselsss.

[Scotch75]

Oh, ok. So is using offset aimpoints as given by JTAC fairly redundant in the F-16?

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[NytHawk]

19 minutes ago, Scotch75 said:

Oh, ok. So is using offset aimpoints as given by JTAC fairly redundant in the F-16?
 

I rarely use VIP/VRPs in DCS, however they can be incredibly useful when trying to find targets, or if you want to coordinate attacks with friendlies.

 

34 minutes ago, skywalker22 said:

Just to mention, realisticly when using VIP or VRP modes, you have to fly low (to not get shot down by any SAMs), so TGP is pretty much uselsss.

I mean even if you elect to fly on the deck, the TGP is still a useful tool if you are using any PGMs or doing CCRP shots to increase accuracy.

Edited January 28 by NytHawk

[skywalker22]

26 minutes ago, NytHawk said:

I rarely use VIP/VRPs in DCS, however they can be incredibly useful when trying to find targets, or if you want to coordinate attacks with friendlies.

 

I mean even if you elect to fly on the deck, the TGP is still a useful tool if you are using any PGMs or doing CCRP shots to increase accuracy.

Agreed, of course it can be useful. I just never use it in this particular case, if the HUD is the SPI then I can use the cursor the adjust the aiming point.

[skywalker22]

Did a test my self, and there is something strange, the square (Target Point) is way up high in the air, instead on the ground which I set (in my example at 2950ft). Why is that so?

And to answer to the OP, TGP is indeed looking at the Target Point (the square), only in my case is looking straight up into the air (where that point is, but it should not be)!

@BIGNEWY can you guys please check it out what is wrong? I did run test a couple of times, and with the same out come. It's just a simple mission and it might be a bug. Thank you.

f-16_VIP_targetPoint.trk

Edited January 28 by skywalker22

[Lord Vader]

Hello @skywalker22

1 hour ago, skywalker22 said:

Did a test my self, and there is something strange, the square (Target Point) is way up high in the air, instead on the ground which I set (in my example at 2950ft). Why is that so?

And to answer to the OP, TGP is indeed looking at the Target Point (the square), only in my case is looking straight up into the air (where that point is, but it should not be)!

@BIGNEWY can you guys please check it out what is wrong? I did run test a couple of times, and with the same out come. It's just a simple mission and it might be a bug. Thank you.

f-16_VIP_targetPoint.trk 1 MB · 1 download

What exactly are you expecting from adding 2950ft to the VIP page? 

According to our DCS: F-16C manual page 315: 

• Elevation difference from VIP (ELEV). Displays the difference in elevation (in feet) of the TGT from the VIP steerpoint. May be modified by placing the DED asterisks over the data field, inputting a value using the ICP keypad, and pressing ENTR. To enter a negative value, press 0/M-SEL to enter a leading zero, which will be input as a negative (–) symbol, followed by the numerical elevation difference value.

Your steerpoint for the VIP entry is at 3533ft. By adding 2950ft to your VIP elevation difference, you'll get 6483ft for the TGT box, pretty much where it is depicted in your track.

I think you misunderstood the idea of the VIP TGT altitude. Like the distance and bearing, it's created from the original steerpoint, it's not the target elevation.
So if you add the value -583ft of altitude difference from the original Steerpoint to the ground level, you'll get the correct ground point for the TGT area. 

[skywalker22]

14 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

Hello @skywalker22

What exactly are you expecting from adding 2950ft to the VIP page? 

According to our DCS: F-16C manual page 315: 

• Elevation difference from VIP (ELEV). Displays the difference in elevation (in feet) of the TGT from the VIP steerpoint. May be modified by placing the DED asterisks over the data field, inputting a value using the ICP keypad, and pressing ENTR. To enter a negative value, press 0/M-SEL to enter a leading zero, which will be input as a negative (–) symbol, followed by the numerical elevation difference value.

Your steerpoint for the VIP entry is at 3533ft. By adding 2950ft to you VIP elevation difference, you'll get 6,483, pretty much where it is depicted in your track.

I think you misunderstood the idea of the VIP as it's created from the original steerpoint, it's not the target elevation.
So if you add the value -583ft of altitude difference from the original Steerpoint to the ground level, you'll get the correct ground point for the TGT area. 

Ok, yes I missunderstood, or better said, I forgot how to use it properly. Thx so much for clarification @Lord Vader. I will rememebr from now on

[Scotch75]

Thanks folks for this discussion. I didn't realise that was a delta elevation either as Wags' video eludes that it is a target elevation.
Cheers!



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[Nealius]

On 1/28/2025 at 1:57 PM, Scotch75 said:

for example, 240/13 from Steerpoint 3, am I best using VIP mode for this?

Yes. Pull up the VIP-TO-PUP menu, select STPT 3, press 0 to enable VIP-TO-PUP, then punch in the direction and distance (degrees/nautical miles). With STPT 3 selected for navigation and in CCRP delivery mode (VIPCCRP), SOI the HUD then press TMS-right short and the targeting pod (technically your SPI I think) will cycle between STPT 3 and its VIP offset. 

Edited February 2 by Nealius

[Scotch75]

Yes. Pull up the VIP-TO-PUP menu, select STPT 3, press 0 to enable VIP-TO-PUP, then punch in the direction and distance (degrees/nautical miles). With STPT 3 selected for navigation and in CCRP delivery mode (VIPCCRP), SOI the HUD then press TMS-right short and the targeting pod (technically your SPI I think) will cycle between STPT 3 and its VIP offset. 

Oh, many thanks. That's a great tip with the TMS-right short. I was hoping there was a HOTAS command to get there quickly.
Cheers!



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