The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[Airway]

As I said. It's like an Su-27

[jerom1992]

Found this:

 

Wish i knew what the text says:

Don't know if this is real:

[Antartis]

Russian Raptor Killer is a "Game Changer"

 

The end of air supremacy?

 

In an open-source assessment of Russia's Sukhoi PAK-FA, aka the Raptor Killer, Air Power Australia concludes, "once the PAK-FA is deployed within a theatre of operations, especially if it is supported robustly by counter-VLO capable ISR systems, the United States will no longer have the capability to rapidly impose air superiority, or possibly even achieve air superiority." Moreover, the Obama administration's decision to kill the F-22 air superiority fighter in favor of the multi-role F-35 Joint Strike Fighter may prove disastrous, as "the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter struggles to survive against the conventional Su-35BM Flanker… Against [a basic-model] PAK-FA, the F-35 falls within the survivability black hole, into which US legacy fighters such as the F-16C/E, F-15C/E and F/A-18A-F have already fallen.”

When the Obama administration killed the F-22, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates made the administration's case in a speech before the Economic Club of Chicago. Gates explained that F-22 was unnecessary because nobody else was anywhere close to fielding an aircraft comprable to F-35, let alone F-22:

Consider that by 2020, the United States is projected to have nearly 2,500 manned combat aircraft of all kinds. Of those, nearly 1,100 will be the most advanced fifth generation F-35s and F-22s. China, by contrast, is projected to have no fifth generation aircraft by 2020. And by 2025, the gap only widens. The U.S. will have approximately 1,700 of the most advanced fifth generation fighters versus a handful of comparable aircraft for the Chinese. Nonetheless, some portray this scenario as a dire threat to America's national security.

If the Russian's had flown the PAK-FA nine months ago, you have to think Congress would have rolled the White House to keep the F-22 line open, which it almost did anyway. As it is, the line will close at the end of this year, and all our eggs, and all the eggs of our allies, will be in the F-35 basket, at the mercy of a program that's way overbudget and has no chance of being completed on time. By the time F-35 does go into service in any significant numbers (if that ever happens, and it didn't in the case of F-22), it may be obsolete -- if the Russians can actually produce the Raptor Killer in any considerable numbers.

Can the Russians produce the PAK-FA in considerable numbers? The Russian defense industrial base is in sorry shape (think the Shkval torpedo that likely sunk the Kursk and the Beluva submarine-launched ballistic missile that has offered Moscow one spectacular embarrassment after another). But if the Russians can get the PAK-FA off the ground despite all that, maybe it's not as hard to build a fifth-generation fighter as the Pentagon thinks.

 

source

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/russian-raptor-killer-game-changer

[Pilotasso]

LOL at that. Not even the russians are saying this. Baseless arguments considering this is just a concept demosntrator.

[Antartis]

LOL at that. Not even the russians are saying this. Baseless arguments considering this is just a concept demosntrator.

 

I do not know if it is true or not. I just try to find all the information on the development of this wonderful bird ...:book::)

[Pilotasso]

I know, I was comenting just the article. :)

[hitman]

i wonder if this aircraft has even been tested against other aircraft yet. how can anyone lay claim that this aircraft can even compete with other aircraft? at least the f22 has over 20 years of simulated conditions. who knows...maybe it will turn out to be the next f117.

[sniffer]

IMHO - the picture of PAK-FA which is a hero of last two pages isn't fake...

- different angles of the AC

- different cameras used to make photo (now who tell me about modyfing EXIF?)

- even different 'snow' on runway

 

Wonder why nearly 60-70% of people still don't believe Russians...

 

Can anybody tell me if that PAK-Fa is true or carton?

[gigz-on]

If Chizh says that it's true - it's really true.. :)

[monotwix]

What are the flying hours ratio between F-15 and F-16 for the last 20 years.

It’s not like an action drama in the sky I.e. prepare to ditch one or the other.

[jerom1992]

Topic = PAK FA thread. Not RAAF thread or 'We hate carlo kopp's analysises'

Not that I agree with Kopp, but keep it OT.

[Antartis]

 

 

source:

http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/category/u/1620823220/s/179159

[hitman]

Topic = PAK FA thread. Not RAAF thread or 'We hate carlo kopp's analysises'

Not that I agree with Kopp, but keep it OT.

Well howmore off topic can it get now?

[tflash]

Is Pak-Fa only meant for A2A or will it be able to carry A2G munitions as well?

[FeoFUN]

Is Pak-Fa only meant for A2A or will it be able to carry A2G munitions as well?

Yep. Besides the free-falling/gliding GPS-guided bombs, which are the only A2G weapons that Raptor can carry at the moment, PAK FA's arsenal will include much wider range of A2G weaponry, such as: GLONASS-guided free-falling/gliding bombs(JDAM'ski and JSOW'ski), tactical AGM's, ASM's and ARM's.

 

BTW, Kopp's article about PAK FA provides pretty good coverage of the subject. (even if you don't trust his POV and conclusions in general).

Edited February 21, 2010 by FeoFUN

[FeoFUN]

Question now could be: "What can the Indian version carry, which the russian can't?"

Maybe they'll make a modified version to carry cruise missiles, like they did with some of the Su-30MKI's

I'd like to reformulate your question: "What may drive the indians to integrate additional munitions in FGFA"?

 

Of course, they can demand some additional A2G weapons, that domestic version of PAK FA doesn't need just because we have much more suitable types and platforms, which indians haven't and won't have in foreseeable future: Su-34, Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS, Tu-160, PAK DA, SSN's with cruise missiles, etc. But anyway, i'm pretty sure that it's not a such good idea to integrate such a monster, like Brahmos or any other heavy cruise missile, with a stealth tactical fighter, like FGFA. It'll be much better to leave this job to Su-30's and concentrate FGFA on the air-superiority and SEAD missions.

Edited February 21, 2010 by FeoFUN

[GGTharos]

No, it doesn't. It's nothing but sheer speculation for the most part, given that this is a flight testing prototype without any integrated weapons, I don't think he can actually 'cover' anything of use.

 

BTW, Kopp's article about PAK FA provides pretty good coverage of the subject. (even if you don't trust his POV and conclusions in general).

[FeoFUN]

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does, at least in the part of PAK FA's A2G arsenal, all facts(except some minor inaccuracies) in which one are based on the official information from the main weapons supplier - state owned company "Tactical Missiles Corporation" and partly from the DoD/RuAF officials.

[Boneski]

Umm Can't the same be said about everything about anything regarding aviation posted on a game site?

Most of the guys that are writing about this thing are not even pilots / combat pilots.

 

The only people that think they know what this Jet will do are the Engineers and they are basing that

on their data models.

 

Then the Test pilots are trying to find out if the brainy kids that built this thing really know what

they are talking about by pushing the Jet to the limits and then past them...

 

The jet has used less then a few tons of gas and people are doubting what it can do or making claims

about what it can do... That's dumb.

 

EVERYTHING about this project is Speculation / unknown even to the people that strap the dam_n thing on.

 

Writers that claim they know about the 22, 35 and any other jet where the data is not public are

just making noise just because they can. They don't know...

 

 

 

No, it doesn't. It's nothing but sheer speculation for the most part, given that this is a flight testing prototype without any integrated weapons, I don't think he can actually 'cover' anything of use.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Boneski

[topol-m]

Umm Can't the same be said about everything about anything regarding aviation posted on a game site?

Most of the guys that are writing about this thing are not even pilots / combat pilots.

 

The only people that think they know what this Jet will do are the Engineers and they are basing that

on their data models.

 

Then the Test pilots are trying to find out if the brainy kids that built this thing really know what

they are talking about by pushing the Jet to the limits and then past them...

 

The jet has used less then a few tons of gas and people are doubting what it can do or making claims

about what it can do... That's dumb.

 

EVERYTHING about this project is Speculation / unknown even to the people that strap the dam_n thing on.

 

Writers that claim they know about the 22, 35 and any other jet where the data is not public are

just making noise just because they can. They don't know...

 

So you`re suggesting that we post only photos of this aircraft in this "PAK-FA" thread because nothing else is sure and expert approved? That`s what these forums are all about - discussion. If everything is known there will be no use for discussion. Yes, very little of what is known about PAK-FA is 100% sure but that`s not a reason not to talk about it in this "gaming" site as you call it. Many of the people around here are not just 13 years old gamers that came to talk about big aircraft and missiles, a lot of them actually work with such so they have a little bit of insight. (why do I have the feeling that I`ve said something similar to someone ;) not so long ago?! :huh:)

[Boneski]

Threads like this are fun to read. Thanks

So you`re suggesting that we post only photos of this aircraft in this "PAK-FA" thread because nothing else is sure and expert approved? That`s what these forums are all about - discussion. If everything is known there will be no use for discussion. Yes, very little of what is known about PAK-FA is 100% sure but that`s not a reason not to talk about it in this "gaming" site as you call it. Many of the people around here are not just 13 years old gamers that came to talk about big aircraft and missiles, a lot of them actually work with such so they have a little bit of insight. (why do I have the feeling that I`ve said something similar to someone ;) not so long ago?! :huh:)

Edited February 22, 2010 by Boneski

[Krippz]

So you`re suggesting that we post only photos of this aircraft in this "PAK-FA" thread because nothing else is sure and expert approved? That`s what these forums are all about - discussion. If everything is known there will be no use for discussion. Yes, very little of what is known about PAK-FA is 100% sure but that`s not a reason not to talk about it in this "gaming" site as you call it. Many of the people around here are not just 13 years old gamers that came to talk about big aircraft and missiles, a lot of them actually work with such so they have a little bit of insight. (why do I have the feeling that I`ve said something similar to someone ;) not so long ago?! :huh:)

I agree with Topol-M a forum is a place of discussion; providing that we keep it on topic everything is fair game.

[hitman]

we should move this thread and merge it with the f22 sucks thread. its all speculation anyways so staying on topic should be easy.

[Antartis]

I found a show on that I realized on the Pak Fa, but I do not know Russian, is there is no video with English subtitles? :helpsmilie:

 

Link;

http://narod.ru/disk/18142500000/T-50%28HTB-Aviatory%29.avi.html

 

(It is download video in Russian)

 

Better video here (411mb);

http://narod.ru/disk/18145253000/%D0%90%D0%92%D0%98%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%9E%D0%A0%D0%AB%20-%20%D0%9F%D0%90%D0%9A%20%D0%A4%D0%90.avi.html

Edited February 22, 2010 by Antartis

[jerom1992]

Link is dead

EDIT: Not anymore