The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[EvilBivol-1]

The Tactical Missile Corporation is known to be developing the "RVV-BD" long range missile, which is a development of the ill-fated R-37 of Soviet times, which was itself a development of the MiG-31's R-33. There was some debate whether the RVV-BD is actually intended for the PAK-FA or not, but I think the current consensus is that it is.

[NOLA]

There was some debate whether the RVV-BD is actually intended for the PAK-FA or not, but I think the current consensus is that it is.

 

It isn't. MiG-31BM's will get it this year.

[Flаnker]

[NOLA]

Inside the PAK-FA... ;)

 

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/korotchenko-rusarms/album/287888/?p=1

[Namenlos Ein]

 

 

[AlexHunter]

Sukhoi T-50 performs a test flight program:

http://russianplanes.net/id102226

[Namenlos Ein]

T-50-4.

 

 

[Pilotasso]

Doesn't appear that they are changing the airframe much, just adding equipment.

[Weta43]

Maybe, unlike the F-35, it does what it was supposed to do out of the box :)

 

 

((Sorry - couldn't help myself ...)

[NOLA]

Doesn't appear that they are changing the airframe much, just adding equipment.

 

There has been small shape changes, and not so small structural ones.

 

Maybe, unlike the F-35, it does what it was supposed to do out of the box :)

 

 

((Sorry - couldn't help myself ...)

 

Oh.... SNAP! :D

 

 

 

There are also plenty on new pics on RP, but i wont bother uploading those.

[Maior]

Maybe, unlike the F-35, it does what it was supposed to do out of the box :)

 

 

((Sorry - couldn't help myself ...)

 

Well, doesn't appear to be the case. Acceptance into service has just been delayed to late 2015 early 2016.

 

http://lenta.ru/news/2013/03/28/pakfa/

 

Also, the F-35 as well as the T-50 will receive upgrades in their capabilities as time goes on. It'd be stupid not to do so. And please tell me what the F-35 won't do that it was supposed to.

[NOLA]

So, one year delay vs how many years of delay to JSF program? Unless my memory is incorrect, wasn't F-35 supposed to be in service in 2005?

[wilky510]

Well, doesn't appear to be the case. Acceptance into service has just been delayed to late 2015 early 2016.

 

http://lenta.ru/news/2013/03/28/pakfa/

 

Also, the F-35 as well as the T-50 will receive upgrades in their capabilities as time goes on. It'd be stupid not to do so. And please tell me what the F-35 won't do that it was supposed to.

Fighting an uphill battle. Wouldn't even bother. Too many anti-F-35 people here. They'll fanboy all over the PAK-Fa no problem though.

[Nate--IRL--]

Give it a rest lads - F-35 talk belongs in the F-35 thread.

 

Anybody like to point out the Subtle (or not) changes to #4?

 

Nate

[Invader ZIM]

No, but I'm willing to bet when they start working on how to integrate their avionics with their weapons systems, and working more with the engines that's when your going to see more delays. It just happens, no matter what country your from.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Invader ZIM

[aaron886]

F-35, PAK-FA, whatever... that thing is gorgeous.

[NOLA]

Fighting an uphill battle. Wouldn't even bother. Too many anti-F-35 people here. They'll fanboy all over the PAK-Fa no problem though.

 

While i do agree the anti F-35 lobby is strong for many reasons, there are plenty that enjoys to bash T-50 because in their minds Sukhoi engineers are simply idiots. Anyway, lets not derail.

 

Give it a rest lads - F-35 talk belongs in the F-35 thread.

 

Anybody like to point out the Subtle (or not) changes to #4?

 

Nate

 

Agreed. :)

 

When it comes to T-50-4 changes, it would depend what one compares against. What i mean is that one could compare against T-50-1 or -3. Compared to T-50-3 however the changes are:

 

- Huge structural changes over wheelbays and the top skin as well. That is also the area between two main bays, and also where the main wing spar (rib? unsure about the correct word) is passing through. It has been reported T-50-1 suffered big cracks following MAKS 2011 display, and it was grounded for over a year and heavily modified. That design alteration was mentioned indirectly in one of Sukhoi's news on their website.

- Smaller structural changes changing composites to metal.

- Clear outside stiffening plates ala those on F-16 or early Flankers.

- KS-U installed at the sides of the cockpit.

- KS-O ("R2D2") removed, new antennas in the area. Doesn't mean it is replaced by them. What they are for, unknown.

- Full radar suite, although i am skeptical of that, more specific towards it having L-band in the slats. That is unchanged vs previous prototypes, meaning it is still out of metal, although as on previous prototypes, in a different shade.

- Back to canopy without middle bar.

- Two eyes for KS-P unit vs one on T-50-3. (Possibly incorrect)

- Some antenna changes around the nose.

- Radiation warning signs around the stinger...

- No flares installation.

 

That should sum it up? :)

Edited March 29, 2013 by NOLA

[Maior]

While i do agree the anti F-35 lobby is strong for many reasons, there are plenty that enjoys to bash T-50 because in their minds Sukhoi engineers are simply idiots. Anyway, lets not derail.

 

Well, You certainly won't hear me bashing the T-50 or the Sukhoi engineers. I just point to the facts. Fact is that as Invader_ZIM pointed out, no combat avionics are fitted to the T-50 so far. Don't just hurry and bash other platforms.

[Cali]

Just realized how wide the T-50 is, look at the wheel spacing.

[Kaktus29]

i guess in the tradition of russian superiority fighter they want to stuff as much fuel as possible to have as biggest range they can.. i wonder how much that will be, .. i've seen numbers from 3800km to 5500 km.. i guess this plane will be the last human operated in Russia and US and elsewhere.. the planes are just getting more and more capable of enduring long flights, there is only so much a pilot can do to stay focused on the mission if he has to fly 5 hours, or 6, or even 8.. at some point he does need to use the WC or eat a snack, ..

 

so, we are witnessing the last generation of human operated planes, and what a way to go, elegance all around.. loving the Pak-FA so far.. about that 1 year delay, i wouldn't worry, if they deliver it in 2019 it will still be ahead of anything in terms of efficiency and building it, since serious work started only 5 years ago we can rightfully say Russians are making this plane as efficiently as any manager can imagine..

 

thats the beauty of limited defence budget.. you are forced to make the "right choices" or you ram the project into the ground.. US just doesn't have limitations to war budget so they can and will complicate everything to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollar for the simplest engineering tasks..why?because they can.. and universe is such, if vacuum exist it will be filled with something.. here its like, if money exist it will be spend of something..

[AlexHunter]

i guess in the tradition of russian superiority fighter they want to stuff as much fuel as possible to have as biggest range they can.. i wonder how much that will be, .. i've seen numbers from 3800km to 5500 km.. i guess this plane will be the last human operated in Russia and US and elsewhere.. the planes are just getting more and more capable of enduring long flights, there is only so much a pilot can do to stay focused on the mission if he has to fly 5 hours, or 6, or even 8.. at some point he does need to use the WC or eat a snack, ..

 

so, we are witnessing the last generation of human operated planes, and what a way to go, elegance all around.. loving the Pak-FA so far.. about that 1 year delay, i wouldn't worry, if they deliver it in 2019 it will still be ahead of anything in terms of efficiency and building it, since serious work started only 5 years ago we can rightfully say Russians are making this plane as efficiently as any manager can imagine..

 

thats the beauty of limited defence budget.. you are forced to make the "right choices" or you ram the project into the ground.. US just doesn't have limitations to war budget so they can and will complicate everything to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollar for the simplest engineering tasks..why?because they can.. and universe is such, if vacuum exist it will be filled with something.. here its like, if money exist it will be spend of something..

 

in addition: We have a saying - best is the enemy of the good.

 

meaning good - price, quality, efficiency

 

original in Russian: Лучшее - враг хорошего

[Invader ZIM]

We have a saying too "You only get what you pay for, no more and no less."

 

Is this 4th prototype in response from the two other airframes that exhibited structural cracks during low g maneuvers out of the box?

[Maior]

I don't think we've seen the last of manned aircraft yet.

 

Also, about the myth that the development is only 5 years, I don't think you have all the numbers. Russia has been trying with LO ever since the Su-47 and the MiG 1.44. As far as I know, Sukhoi was awarded the contract for the development of the next Russian fighter in 2002 based on the success of the Su-47. That's 11 years ago instead of five. Also, development of the Su-47 has been going on since 83. Take all that into account and you get 30 years development.

The aircraft maiden flight was supposed to be in early 2007 and was postponed till early 2010. Three years late. Together with the latest delay it's 4 years delay so far. Out of decency I won't take into account the years lost when the SU tumbled and crashed.

 

And FYI, five years to build and test a modern day fighter is impossible. Five years might take you out of the drawing board but that's it.

 

So, as Invader Zim said, you get what you pay for. Now, I'm not against this or any project. This post is merely aimed at dispelling some myths regarding aircraft development and what each nation is doing. Also, the T-50 will enter service years latter than the F-35 and is way behind the F-35 in terms of testing. Also, not everything is a bed of roses in that project. Not a lot of info is available but so far, Engines and Avionics are problematic (to say the least). And a lot more delays will occur once they try to integrate all 21st century avionics in one package. We can easily mention years before the avionics are fully integrated which will leave Sukhoi with two options. Either produce Block 1 aircraft and upgrade them as solutions are found, or, hold to it for the years that will take to make a "out of the box" winner.

 

 

Just my 2cts to keep this discussion on realistic terms.

[Kaktus29]

@maior.. you think there will be 6th generation fighter that will be manned? thats some serious optimism that i don't share..

 

drones are already here, and they are here to stay.. AI is improving at rapid pace..

 

so, 2050-2090 i don't see human pilots out there flying.. no way..

 

 

about your 30 yrs time of developing PAK-FA i disagree, there was hardly any developing done in the 90-and 00's.. so, yes, the most time and money spent on this project is 5 years ago.. and yes, the project has been super efficient as we can see with our own eyes..

 

how will PAK-FA come years later after F-35 is beyond me, F-35 has serious drawbacks that are impossible to re-design today.. it might become heavier, fatter as time goes by and ending totally less capable machine as it was designed for... PAK already achieves the elements needed, electrionics and the rest will come, Russia is in no hurry to wage war, so if the final electronic suite will be ready in 2020 no problem.. the plane will still be able to fly without fear of igniting in mid air and exploding because of structural engineering problems..

 

And for all this to be designed in the last 5 years is nothing short of a brilliance on the part of russian engineers..

 

 

@ZIM .. you say, you get what you pay for..am, not true.. NASA spend millions of dollars to design a PEN that will work in space, vacuum, etc.. russians engineers used a 5 cent pencil and the problem was resolved in 1 minute..

 

so, 1 million dollar pen equals 5 cents worth of pencil.. i'm thinking somebody doesn't know math and economics here..

Edited March 30, 2013 by Kaktus29

[Esac_mirmidon]

OMG, the pencil´s history again. XDD