The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[Vault]

Get your DV clearance here:

 

http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id=hrp_QP-vz4sC&oi=fnd&pg=PR15&dq=non-cooperative+target+recognition&ots=xuaNOXYLhG&sig=xdfZ62xvyKmUYVbhuaSrlVAhJoA#v=onepage&q=non-cooperative%20target%20recognition&f=false

 

You may need clearance to work on the systems, but you don't need clearance to understand the basics of what they do. These are things that have been tested in academic settings; militaries may employ some very specific techniques and have certain knowledge of their target set which is not shareable for obvious reasons , as well as keeping their capabilities secret to prevent the opposition from knowing how to easily screw up their NCTR - but the general high level ideas behind it, and even specific algorithms are available for viewing in an academic setting.

 

The book is good a read. Thanks. Whilst it's very informative I believe that modern NCTR systems have new technology and techniques that have evolved far beyond public knowledge and published books. But that's just specualtion.

 

Two birds, one stone. NCTR wasn't the deciding factor. This is nothing other than a basic stealth design feature.

 

Ultimatley it doesn't matter, Six of one a half dozen of the other.

[GGTharos]

No problem. I think the secret is the implementation of techniques. Secret techniques are not unlikely, but I would suggest thinking slightly out of the box instead of ... say, sticking to the reflection of radar energy coming from your own radar to get some ideas.

 

The book is good a read. Thanks. Whilst it's very informative I believe that modern NCTR systems have new technology and techniques that have evolved far beyond public knowledge and published books. But that's just specualtion.

[Antartis]

English subtitle.

 

[Antartis]

Pak fa T50-3 is ready to take off.

 

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20111027/472496825.html

[Pilotasso]

Any design changes?

[Antartis]

No idea. I think not.

[Flаnker]

:P

[manfrez01]

:P

:shocking:Thank's for share¡

[Krebs20]

What did it launch?

[Esac_mirmidon]

R-77 i think.

[EtherealN]

I would guess RVV-AE.

 

But remember: that's an animation. NOT a video. ;)

[NoJoe]

I think I recognized some of those engine sounds... ;)

 

--NoJoe

[RIPTIDE]

But remember: that's an animation. NOT a video. ;)

 

Really?

 

 

 

;)

[Namenlos Ein]

The third PAK FA prototype first flight

23.11.2011

 

22, 2011 — the first flight of the 3rd prototype of the fifth generation aviation complex (PAK FA) took place in Sukhoi’s KNAAPO aircraft plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur. The plane was piloted by distinguished test pilot of the Russian Federation, the Hero of Russia Sergey Bogdan. The aircraft spent in the air a little more than an hour and landed on the factory airfield runway. The flight was successful, in full accordance with the flight plan. Stability of the aircraft test was conducted during the flight as well as evaluation of the power plant systems’ performance. The aircraft proved itself well in all phases of the planned flight program. The pilot confirmed reliable operation of all systems and components. […]

http://www.knaapo.ru/eng/news/index.wbp?article-id=C4A5ABA9-66C7-4E3B-B57A-4687AF0678D1 — 10 photos.

 

 

[Pilotasso]

I dont see any design changes maybe in a later lot.

[Vekkinho]

Stability of the aircraft test was conducted during the flight as well as evaluation of the power plant systems’ performance. The aircraft proved itself well in all phases of the planned flight program.

No design changes but this bird has TV engine nozzles unlike previous T-50 prototypes...

 

From the quoted text above please note power plant performance emphasis, T-50-3 is thrust vectoring (AL-41F1A) testbed I guess.

 

Check this vid:

Edited November 23, 2011 by Vekkinho

[RvETito]

Except the obvious presence of TVC exhaust and absence of the test flight air-data sensors on the nose there seems to be a cannon installed.

Edited November 24, 2011 by =RvE=Tito

[mikoyan]

I think all of them have tvc; if not why the exhaust point downwards with the engine off on the 50-2 and 50-1? maybe they are not being used fo r maneuvering yet; remember what sukhoi did with the su-35 during 2009, no tvc movement at all; a few years latter they enabled them.

 

Changes are radars mounted; looks like it has two lateral radars. Warning sensors and new paneling at the nose. Less data probes at the nose. Chaff and flares dispensers and some square looking panel right next to them.

[topol-m]

Do you guys monitoring closely the news on PAK-FA and its development know how many prototypes will participate through the test flight program? Also anything announced on possible flat TVC nozzles? I was also expecting some design changes in the underside of the plane, but perhaps it's too early or it won't happen at all, particularly the area where the weapon bay doors are. Seems like it's forming 90° angles with the engines... I don't know, without being an expert on stealth it looks to me like that particular area needs work on the most.

[vanveken]

If it is interesting... AESA PAK FA

 

http://military.tomsk.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=21854&mode=view

 

http://military.tomsk.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=21853&mode=view

 

http://military.tomsk.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=21852&mode=view

[moosefoot]

No design changes but this bird has TV engine nozzles unlike previous T-50 prototypes...

 

Both T-50-1 and -2 possess TVC. Here are some examples:

 

T-50-1 moving nozzles during a pre-flight check:

At ~ 1:05 in.

 

Here is T-50-2 actually using it in flight:

Swiveling nozzles can clearly be seen if you have a sharp eye, for example right at the quick flip @ ~3:56 in.

One can also spot the LERX's moving about independently, which is old news I guess but nevertheless rather interesting to see during actual flight.

 

Here is a still of T-50-2 with nozzles pointing down unevenly (compare to the angles of the elevators):

http://russianplanes.net/images/to56000/055384.jpg

 

These examples appear to be showing "2.5D" TVC, basically simple pitching movement but with the axis tilted some 20-25 degrees or so, and with independence of course (unlike in the F-22). It's not quite as complex as the TVC in some other tech demos (like the MiG-29OVT), but still interesting. Technically it can still be used to augment both pitch and roll in combination with the traditional aerodynamic surfaces, and used to facilitate and maintain maneuverability during high alphas etc where airflow is insufficient/unsuitable for normal aerodynamic control. It's not as versatile as full 3D, but less mechanically complex (which makes it more reliable, lighter, cheaper and quite likely easier to adapt for stealth) while still not being as limiting as basic unison 2D. A compromise in other words, and a rather smart one at that.

 

Old news as well, but what the hell. :D

 

Even though the PAK-FA has hardly done any jawdropping aerobatics so far, the precision in rolls etc. do appear to be F-22-esque at times. I'm sure we will see it pushing the limits over the next couple of years as they progress with development and gain more confidence in the machine and what it should be capable of doing.

 

The biggest question in my opinion regarding TVC is if they are going to move onwards to full 3D in the future or if they will stick to this. Again, the 2.5D idea does indeed seem to be very sound considering the stated goals for this project. The engine testbed demos do appear to show "2.5D" as well, so that's where I'd place my bet. Example:

 

Also, this might be even more old news but regarding flat, stealthy looking nozzles:

Nota bene that it's just an amateur interpretation of some tech docs that NPO Saturn supplied when filing for various patents, but I just have to say that it really looks cool with the tilted axis in combination with flat nozzles.

Edited November 26, 2011 by moosefoot
sp. error

[topol-m]

^^ Interesting, never seen that last video. Nice first post :) Welcome to the forum.

[Vekkinho]

Great post moosefoot!

[moosefoot]

Thanks for the warm welcoming, guys. I've been lurking on this forum for many, many years (I am a LOMAC fan) but I didn't bother joining until now. :)

 

On the topic of nozzles, I found this article:

http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2010/04/27/194329.html

 

It states that the TVC axis is tilted at 30 degrees and that there are, in fact, stealth-style flat nozzles being developed for this engine. :thumbup:

 

I am dying to see that. I'm dying to see more "finished" versions of this aircraft in general... The prototypes are cool and were well worth the wait but now I want to see the serial version instead. Very little information is available but there are some things hinting at a drastic increase in stealthiness and fifth-generation-ness to be seen in prototypes T-50-5/6.

 

Cheers from Scandinavia,

 

moosefoot

Edited November 27, 2011 by moosefoot

[topol-m]

^^ Sounds promising, thanks for the link.