FFB How should it feel?

[Andrew u.k.]

As someone that has just bought a FFB Base, I'm looking for a description of how it should feel. 

I mainly fly the FA18, but also the huey and spitfire. 

For instance, is the joystick loose in the 18 when started but not moving, how stiff do the controls get when pulling G? Should there be much spring? 

In the Spit when cold, is everything balanced and so easy to move, or can you feel resistance in the linkages? 

The huey must be stiff as board before all the hydraulics are working, but in flight I believe the controls are light as a feather, but maybe I'm wrong. 

Never having flown anything in real life, I can only use my imagination, but I know some of you are GA pilots and have more of an idea with experience. 

There's so much info on brands of bases but no real descriptions of what the controls should feel like. 

Cheers 

Andrew 

 

[MAXsenna]

Default DCS effects.

F/A-18C, it's like a regular sprung stick while the more deflection, the more force required. No other effects. 

Spit, the force required to move stick depends on the simulated airflow over the control surfaces, though I haven't ever really flown the spit, so there might be some lock up of control surfaces I'm not aware of. No other effects. 

Huey, turns completely limp when pressing trim or disabling force trim. No other effects.

To have other effects, use the accompanying software that uses telemetry.

Cheers! 

[propeler]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

F/A-18C, it's like a regular sprung stick while the more deflection, the more force required. No other effects. 

 

It is not true. It has breakout force in the center, it has additional spring kicked in on high AoA. In some sources it says spring depends on G as well. But not much confirmation of it. IRL stick do not communicate anything more. But in real life all frame is shaking on some situations (Stall, AoA, gear extended) but as we do not have frame to shake - it can be added to the stick

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Spit, the force required to move stick depends on the simulated airflow over the control surfaces, though I haven't ever really flown the spit, so there might be some lock up of control surfaces I'm not aware of. No other effects.

Same there about shaking. You will feel airflow increases load (both from speed and propeller), you will feel elevator weight (under G it will increase obviously), And you will feel so called local AoA effect (imagine you fall onto the tail, force will invert) 

[Andrew u.k.]

Thanks for the replies. 

I'll make the fa18 like my virpil sprung base! 

[MAXsenna]

Thanks for the replies. 
I'll make the fa18 like my virpil sprung base! 

Nah, better I would say!
Seems propeler misread my comment, and I his. Short, the default effects in DCS for helicopters and FBW jets are pretty rudimentary. Much, much better for WWII modules, and some 3rd party jets. Some do have unrealistic effects added. And if you want more of those unrealistic effects, many do so I'm not judging, you'll need to use the software for the base and get those effects via telemetry.
Cheers!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[propeler]

22 hours ago, Andrew u.k. said:

For instance, is the joystick loose in the 18 when started but not moving, how stiff do the controls get when pulling G? Should there be much spring? 

That's 37 pounds over 5 inches of travel (7.4 lb/in) plus 3 pounds of breakout+friction. In roll, it's lighter at about 3.7 lb/in over 3 inches of travel plus 2 pounds of breakout+friction (a little over 13 pounds total). Here is writeup about forces 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

I am not sure about FBW aircraft, but older aircraft which the controls connected more directly to the control surfaces would theoretically feel like what @propeler described above.

One thing to note, some time, it is more about the software which controls the feedback to the base than the physical gears and motors. Yes, bases have different force output, but how they react to the state the aircraft depending on the settings which, in turn, could be tuned to your liking. If one thinks the F-16C behaviour is too boring and stiff (as per in Moza AB9), one can always change the way the base behave, say, more feedback when the weapon is fired, feeling more the pressure of control surfaces, or even make the stick movements as per in other "normal" planes (as per in Rhino).

[Andrew u.k.]

On 3/24/2025 at 8:07 AM, propeler said:

That's 37 pounds over 5 inches of travel (7.4 lb/in) plus 3 pounds of breakout+friction. In roll, it's lighter at about 3.7 lb/in over 3 inches of travel plus 2 pounds of breakout+friction (a little over 13 pounds total). Here is writeup about forces 

 

That's superb and very informative, thankyou very much. 

The breakout force is interesting, I shall stiffen it up and check the critical dampening. 

 

Thanks again. 

[Andrew u.k.]

On 3/24/2025 at 9:16 AM, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

I am not sure about FBW aircraft, but older aircraft which the controls connected more directly to the control surfaces would theoretically feel like what @propeler described above.

One thing to note, some time, it is more about the software which controls the feedback to the base than the physical gears and motors. Yes, bases have different force output, but how they react to the state the aircraft depending on the settings which, in turn, could be tuned to your liking. If one thinks the F-16C behaviour is too boring and stiff (as per in Moza AB9), one can always change the way the base behave, say, more feedback when the weapon is fired, feeling more the pressure of control surfaces, or even make the stick movements as per in other "normal" planes (as per in Rhino).

As most of us don't have real life experience, it would be easy to add effects and forces that aren't realistic. I'm not one to say you shouldn't do this, we're mostly middle aged men sat in our office / study trying to have fun after all. 

That's what's so great about these sticks you can have it however you like, personally I'm after a close representation of the real thing, without the extra bits. 

[Mr_sukebe]

Agreed, it would be great to understand what feedback is received in real aircraft.

The force comments are really useful, but what about other potentials, eg does speed influence weight (as it does in a warbird), lowering flaps, speedbrakes, wind gusts, dropping ordinance etc.   There’s a mass of external factors that might in reality produce feedback in the sticks.  

Probably far less in a FBW fighter, but what about say a Phantom, Mirage F1?

[Dogmanbird]

these were all questions i always wanted to ask a friend who was an f18 growler pilot, especially now i have a ffb setup that he could have tried. he tragically died in a car accident not too long ago

during one of our chats about sims, he did remark that dcs and msfs2020 looked a lot better graphically than what they trained on

 

[MAXsenna]

these were all questions i always wanted to ask a friend who was an f18 growler pilot, especially now i have a ffb setup that he could have tried. he tragically died in a car accident not too long ago
during one of our chats about sims, he did remark that dcs and msfs2020 looked a lot better graphically than what they trained on
 

Sorry for your loss. That sucks!

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Dogmanbird]

there are others who it would have had a far greater impact on, but thanks Max     it was from a shared passion for windsurfing that we knew each other.

 

 

 

 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

what about other potentials, eg does speed influence weight (as it does in a warbird), lowering flaps, speedbrakes, wind gusts, dropping ordinance etc.   There’s a mass of external factors that might in reality produce feedback in the sticks.  

All of the above listed does have corresponding settings in the software but what values should they have are up to the user, with respect to realism. I have no way to know either as I have never flew anything of DCS counterpart IRL, so I rely solely on the profile settings provided. Well, I would say F-14 is also an amazing/daunting plane to experience FFB in.

For curiosity, here are some settings provided:

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Edited March 26 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Dogmanbird]

its not the ab9, but this is what ive done to increase the centre breakout force while not over applying force at full deflection

 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Cannot find this curve in VPForce application

[Dogmanbird]

 

if you turn this on, does it reveal any extra settings? I'd be surprised if there aren't more options hidden away

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a quick look in the manual i see this. maybe there are presets you can select to change the curve, if not being able to create a custom in /out  curve?

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Edited March 26 by Dogmanbird

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

That's all I can see:

 

[Dogmanbird]

do you see these anywhere?

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[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Sure, this is with another program, and if my understanding is correct, the settings on this one do not go with configuration of each plane, unfortunately. Anything done here carries forward to every single thing you fly in DCS/MSFS, etc.

This is mine after following a fellow YouTuber flying a lot of helicopters.

If let me know how this could be done for each plane profile.  Thanks.

Edited March 27 by VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants

[Draken35]

1 hour ago, VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants said:

Sure, this is with another program, and if my understanding is correct, the settings on this one do not go with configuration of each plane, unfortunately. Anything done here carries forward to every single thing you fly in DCS/MSFS, etc.

This is mine after following a fellow YouTuber flying a lot of helicopters.

If let me know how this could be done for each plane profile.  Thanks.

yes, it can be done with TelemFF. Just export the settings with configurator and load them in the configuration file option in Telem

Edited March 27 by Draken35

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Wow! Great to know! Export it and dump it back with the profile. Thank you very much.

 

[witwas]

Maybe a bit off topic.

I got an ab9 two weeks ago, really a step up from a normal spring setup and ‘affordable’. Combined with my virpil stick and extensions I have a huge amount of travel, great for flying helicopters.  

I never flown a real helicopter in real life but I have flown glider planes and small ultralights (they use a cable setup, and have little to no tension). I googled a bit on how a stick should be on a hydraulic powered helicopter and they state almost no tension.

If a use the direct input I get no to little friction but I lose the cool stuff like machine gun rumble and rocket kick back. If use the integrated its’s to stiff.  

How do you guys set up the stick for like the kiowa or huey?

[Andrew u.k.]

With the Huey you need to turn off force trim. 

It's a switch positioned on the centre console. 

 

[VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants]

Ka-50, the hardware force trim, which means the application for the FFB base would assign a button for "Force Trim", works fine