Rolling Out From Level Turn Issue

[Avio]

In most fighters in DCS including F16, when rolling out from a constant altitude turn into level flight, the plane always ended up nose up between 5 to 10 degrees. Is this normal?

In real world jets seen online, they all seem to roll out neatly without pitching the nose up. While in simulator we can exert a slight pitch down when leveling off, but the result isn’t always pretty. Is it easier to do in the real jets?

 

[razo+r]

If you enable the control indicator (RCtrl+Enter), can you confirm you only apply aileron input and no elevator input?

[Tenkom]

This is natural because if the plane is keeping level while banked that means if you level out without reducing elevator action the plane will pitch up. For the same reason you will always pitch down when you roll into the turn if you don't also pull pack on the stick.
 

[Lace]

A level turn does not mean no elevator input.  A level turn with 30deg bank is approx 1.2g, and 60deg is 2g.  That g is generated by stick back pressure, otherwise the turn wouldn't be level, it would be a descending spiral.  When levelling the turn the stick back pressure needs to be reduced, otherwise you will get a pitching up action.  The Viper FWB does some odd (not odd, perhaps unintuitive) things and there are posters here who are far more qualified than I am to comment on that, but learning to anticipate what the aircraft will do, and compensating before it happens will help you remain in level flight when entering or exiting a turn.

[Avio]

I did ensure stick back pressure is neutralised when rolling back to level. Just can’t quite level off without pitching up. Anyone managed to do it?

[razo+r]

Can you perhaps upload a short track so we can see how you are doing it?

[NytHawk]

8 hours ago, Avio said:

In most fighters in DCS including F16, when rolling out from a constant altitude turn into level flight, the plane always ended up nose up between 5 to 10 degrees. Is this normal?

By default, the F-16 will automatically trim itself to maintain 1g flight. You'll notice that the pitch will stop creeping up once the G-indicator on the HUD reaches 1g.

As @Lace said, you will need to reduce backstick pressure (or even put in some forward pressure) in order to maintain 1g and control pitch creep after levelling out.
 

Edited April 10 by NytHawk

[Nealius]

And it's gotten a lot better since the flight model tuning a few months--maybe a year? ago now. It used to overshoot its 1G trim and continue creeping at 1G, and rolling out in level turns required a healthy dose of forward stick. Now it doesn't creep as much nor does it need forward stick, and I honestly don't find it significantly different to handle than any of the other modules, FBW or analog.

Edited April 10 by Nealius

[Aquorys]

On 4/10/2025 at 9:38 AM, Tenkom said:

This is natural because if the plane is keeping level while banked that means if you level out without reducing elevator action the plane will pitch up. For the same reason you will always pitch down when you roll into the turn if you don't also pull pack on the stick.

Exactly. There are a few exceptions, the most prevalent of them probably being Airbus passenger aircraft, but those only keep flying level throughout turns because the fly-by-wire system automatically corrects the pitch attitude for you.

[Avio]

I was thinking maybe upon leveling at 1g perhaps the follow-on fast buildup of speed might have created that bit of extra lift effecting the nose up.

[NytHawk]

13 minutes ago, Avio said:

I was thinking maybe upon leveling at 1g perhaps the follow-on fast buildup of speed might have created that bit of extra lift effecting the nose up.

Its mostly inertia, but there are some other forces in play. When turning, your nose is rotating around your pitch axis. Levelling out with only roll input doesn't counteract the inertia, hence why the nose can rise after levelling out.

Edit: The increased vertical lift component will also contribute to the nose pitching above the horizon when levelling out.

Edited April 11 by NytHawk

[Avio]

I should add that the only DCS add-on that does not show a pitch up when leveling from a turn is the MB-339, another of my favorite. Very well modelled.

 

2 minutes ago, NytHawk said:

Its mostly inertia. When turning, your nose is rotating around your pitch axis. Levelling out with only roll input doesn't counteract the inertia, hence why the nose can rise after levelling out.
After rolling out, your wings will also start to generate more lift in the vertical component.

Which is why I was quite puzzled that real world jets seem to level off without pitching up, seemingly effortlessly.

Along that same line of reasoning, one would expect the MB-339 to exhibit the same behaviour, but then that model doesn’t.

[NytHawk]

9 minutes ago, Avio said:

I should add that the only DCS add-on that does not show a pitch up when leveling from a turn is the MB-339, another of my favorite. Very well modelled.

I'm not that familiar with how the MB-339 flies, so I can't really comment on its exact behavior.

9 minutes ago, Avio said:

Along that same line of reasoning, one would expect the MB-339 to exhibit the same behaviour, but then that model doesn’t.

The MB-339 is a much lighter airframe which is probably a bit more responsive to control inputs in DCS than its real world counterpart (assuming you're not using a FFB stick)

Edited April 11 by NytHawk

[Nealius]

To Avio's point, I also haven't noticed such a pitching behavior in any of the other modules, including the props and analog jets. Nor did that other sim that offers a realistic recreation of the Viper's FLCS have it. 

Edited April 12 by Nealius

[DummyCatz]

There has been a pitch creep bug that is related to the issue you described and is still being investigated.