F4 cockpit too dark in VR

[Havoc25]

 Anyone else having issue with the cockpit panels being too dark in the F4? I've tried adjusting the gamma in both DCS and virtual desktop. still way too dark. It seems it is only with this module. no other aircraft looks like this. Trying to see the trim gauge to make sure I am 3 degrees nose down is a nightmare. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

You're definitely not alone: it is indeed the darkest cockpit in DCS at the moment. In fact, it makes me a bit worried for when we finally get tinted helmet visors (Cobra announced it 2+ years ago for all HB modules): for me the dark patches around the cockpit look fine if I had my visor down, but there is a huge contrast when sunlight directly hits the inside of the cockpit.
That being said, lighting has been iffy in DCS for a good few years. I bet it's not easy having both the inner cockpit look properly lit AND not have your retinas burnt out when looking outside - and that's ignoring the washed out colours (of the outside world) when you don't have a visor down 

[Zabuzard]

Could you provide a screenshot of your DCS Graphics Options?

There are some options that can cause really weird stuff.

[ben_der]

Have you switched on Global Cockpit Illumination (iirc thats the setting) in the Graphics Settings of DCS?

Switching it on should make it brighter.

 

Edited April 19 by ben_der

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 4/18/2025 at 5:51 AM, Havoc25 said:

is a nightmare

Personally I wouldn't call it that, but depending on the clouds in the mission and where the sun is at, things definitely are (very) dark.
For reference, these are mine (I fly exclusively in VR but made this screenshot in pancake mode):
 

[Zabuzard]

Can you try turning of DLSS and see if its better? Gamme 2.1 is what the experience was calibrated for btw, you are quite close to that value but perhaps you can give 2.1 a try just to see. And yeah, usually its the Cockpit Global Illumination that people who experience a too dark cockpit have turned off.

Edited April 19 by Zabuzard

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Sure, I'll see if it changes anything but do keep in mind Havoc needs your help more than I do
I only notice an issue in certain cloud preset / time of day combinations where the Phantom is FAR darker than any other module (tested by swapping the aircraft in the mission editor) and yes in such cases reading dials can become difficult.
Gamma 2.2 is default as far as I understand (both in general and in DCS), so 2.1 should make it darker rather than lighter, no?  

[Vitor_Hugo]

In VR with the Pilot Body the cockpit gets more darker

I know that the pilot body makes some shadows,

but it would be cool if the difference in lightning wasn't so big

[Havoc25]

Here is a screen of my settings. null

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I deleted my Saved Games DCS folder and let DCS rebuild it, and I haven't had the issue with harsh shadows since. I don't know conclusively if it fixed my issues, but so far it's looking promising. Perhaps you can try that as well, Havoc...

[bilbosmeggins]

I’m guessing that my cockpit is even darker than you peoples, given that I’ve turned the gamma down quite a bit. I find that the landscape is way too bleached in VR with higher gamma values. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

19 minutes ago, bilbosmeggins said:

I find that the landscape is way too bleached in VR with higher gamma values. 

Yes it is, hence the amount of people asking developers to implement working helmet visors. That takes care of that problem  

[bilbosmeggins]

1 hour ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Yes it is, hence the amount of people asking developers to implement working helmet visors. That takes care of that problem  

Oh, I didn’t realise. Have any been implemented yet? I have the F4, which has a visor/sunglasses option. I’ve not tried using them yet as I just assumed it was a cosmetic gimic. 

Edited May 17 by bilbosmeggins

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

27 minutes ago, bilbosmeggins said:

Have any been implemented yet?

Not by Heatblur, but Cobra announced 2+ years ago it’s coming for all of their modules.

ED has been either ignoring those requests or playing a “yes it’s coming - haha tricked you it isn’t! - we might do it at some point - we know it’s important so we requested it” game for the last 8 years.

Many other developers did include it, and the upcoming Bo-105 will also have one

[lefuneste01]

you can also try my mod which is enabling different reshade fllters for cockpit or outside. It is done mainly for VR but most features should work in 2d: 

 

[Keith Briscoe]

I think it's cool how much the lighting is impacted by the direction of light and shadows.

[USA_Recon]

On 4/19/2025 at 2:25 PM, Zabuzard said:

Can you try turning of DLSS and see if its better? Gamme 2.1 is what the experience was calibrated for btw, you are quite close to that value but perhaps you can give 2.1 a try just to see. And yeah, usually its the Cockpit Global Illumination that people who experience a too dark cockpit have turned off.

I don’t think telling folks to turn off DLSS is a solution to F4 being overly dark.  
Im in VR and have gamma now to 2.5 and global illumination on and still find it very dark compared to other modules.  I typically use gamma 2 for all other modules.  The f4 has very dark panels to begin with, hard to read text.  The light flow is very bad as well.  Which I think is further exaggerated by EDs shadow lighting issues .

HB should consider including VR users in their development process as well so you can better support your customers (I noticed this with grease pencil thread).   

[Q3ark]

For the people having trouble, what headsets are you using? I’m still using my old valve index and don’t have any trouble with the cockpit being too dark. 
 

also don’t forget the phantom is terrible for cockpit ergonomics, it is / was dark, with controls and instruments in dumb places (ger and flap indicators). There’s a reason they don’t make them like this any more. 

Edited July 13 by Q3ark

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

On 5/17/2025 at 4:33 PM, bilbosmeggins said:

I find that the landscape is way too bleached in VR with higher gamma values. 

Sorry to quote you again, but I found a solution for that (at least in VR):
Adding the line:
options.graphics.stereo_mode_use_shared_parser = true
to my autoexec.cfg fixed those differences in lighting, at least for me.

[Zabuzard]

I don’t think telling folks to turn off DLSS is a solution to F4 being overly dark.  
Im in VR and have gamma now to 2.5 and global illumination on and still find it very dark compared to other modules.  I typically use gamma 2 for all other modules.  The f4 has very dark panels to begin with, hard to read text.  The light flow is very bad as well.  Which I think is further exaggerated by EDs shadow lighting issues .
HB should consider including VR users in their development process as well so you can better support your customers (I noticed this with grease pencil thread).   

Im not sure how you came to the conclusion but the Phantom was developed with VR since day 1.

The experience is in many regards tuned specifically for VR users as well.

Jester UI has full VR support, was also tuned for voice support, all switches and buttons support hand control, Crew Chief operations have been added to Jester Wheel so they can also be done through head controls or via voice control instead of the default immersion breaking menu.
There is a detailed VR Pilot Body. Extra effort was put into ensuring that everything in the cockpit is millimeter accurate to ensure everything has exactly the right size and dimensions specifically in VR.

Ofc some things dont work well in VR (yet), but that is mostly down to DCS/engine support shenanigans. Most notably HB UI. For example, there is no way technically to interface with VR hand controls as mouse substitute yet, DCS simply lacks an API for these things (afaik).

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

11 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

Extra effort was put into ensuring that everything in the cockpit is millimeter accurate to ensure everything has exactly the right size and dimensions specifically in VR.

Yes and that shows!

Let me put it this way: if it’s not done correctly and the dimensions are off, you’ll know it because the cockpit will “feel wrong” or “feel off” even if you don’t consciously know why. Heatblur modules don’t have that issue

[USA_Recon]

11 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Im not sure how you came to the conclusion but the Phantom was developed with VR since day 1.

The experience is in many regards tuned specifically for VR users as well.

Jester UI has full VR support, was also tuned for voice support, all switches and buttons support hand control, Crew Chief operations have been added to Jester Wheel so they can also be done through head controls or via voice control instead of the default immersion breaking menu.
There is a detailed VR Pilot Body. Extra effort was put into ensuring that everything in the cockpit is millimeter accurate to ensure everything has exactly the right size and dimensions specifically in VR.

Ofc some things dont work well in VR (yet), but that is mostly down to DCS/engine support shenanigans. Most notably HB UI. For example, there is no way technically to interface with VR hand controls as mouse substitute yet, DCS simply lacks an API for these things (afaik).
 

This doesn’t work in VR either.

So you support it but don’t test it …

[Phantom12]

The grease pencil works in VR. I imagine the problem from the post above relates to the fact that for whatever reason DCS uses a separate cursor for the cockpit and the Radio menu & options menu etc. The yellow cross is for the pit and there is a little white dot which is for the menus. HBUI uses the white dot too. Unfortunately the white dot hides itself when not hovering over something clickable, and its usually totally somewhere else from the yellow cursor. So for small things like the Grease pencil or Radio menu you have to wobble the mouse all over the place in VR until you randomly happen to "find" the 2nd cursor. Its a real pain, but I think its a DCS issue.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

3 hours ago, USA_Recon said:

This doesn’t work in VR either.

Yes, it does. Shortly after release I made a post about it, explaining that you basically need keybinds so it’s finicky but it does work.

[Zabuzard]

4 hours ago, USA_Recon said:

This doesn’t work in VR either.

So you support it but don’t test it …

Possibly you misunderstood me. The grease pencil is made using HB UI and HB UI, as explained earlier, cannot offer "touch controls" or similar because that is a DCS limitation. There is no interface for it that thirdparties could use.

HB UI uses ImGui to render a texture in a popup window (that texture being written to by CEF, through off-screen-rendering). ImGui natively features mouse and keyboard controls straight through the Windows API, although we had to take some extra steps to actually capture keyboard events that DCS didnt suck up and forward them to ImGui. Additionally, in Jester Wheel and Jester Dialog, we have mocked mouse events driven by character head-movement.

I am not sure how you can conclude that we "dont test it" or are unaware of this. This is simply a technical limitation and as soon as DCS offers a way for us to access what your VR hands are doing and where they are pointing and clicking at, we could forward that to HB UI as mouse events. Until then, you have to use your actual mouse, there is no way around it - sadly.

But that doesnt mean the Phantom wouldnt be tuned and optimized for VR since day one. Please try to be fair with your feedback, thank you.

Edited July 14 by Zabuzard