First impressions (from a "Hamburger" - born and raised in Hamburg)

[cfrag]

Preamble:
I was born and raised in cold-war Hamburg; when I was 16, Nena published "99 Luftballons" and I met Barbara. I lived in Hamburg, served in the western military in Northern Germany, and left Germany for University a few days before the "Mauer" fell. In other words: I lived and breathed what this map intends to re-create.

Summary:
It's a great map to explore: beautiful, great color palette, green(!), a gazilion objects to look at, and performance is well contained even when flying in VR on low-end rigs like mine.

Strategically, this map looks like it is begging for the A-10 (any version) to wallow in the mud; in the real world, it's of course the other way around: the Hog was made to live here. The map is filled with small airfields and enough objects to create a veritable smorgasboard of missions. The map has some short comings, but as a background (and - importantly - a Non-Dust Map) for missions, it seems really, really promising to me. 

The Long Form
The map is great as a backdrop for combat missions with a veneer of authenticity, very much like Normandy II and Syria: there are landmarks rendered in beautiful detail that can help put you, your aircraft and your mission into context of some larger history. The visuals are exquisite, and performance is good even on my decidedly low-end rig (in VR!). The arrangement of airfields, military bases and points of interest on this map makes my 'mission creator' sense tingle, and I hope that it also encourages other content creators similarly (I'm aware that my initial feelings for the Sinai map were similar, but somewhere along the way, ORT dropped the ball, and long neglect of the map made people drop it from their "future project" list, making Sinai, beautiful as it is, a fading map).

Now, as someone born and raised in Hamburg, is it worth investment based purely on accuracy? No. The good thing is that flying over Hamburg in a Jet, any local can instantly place themselves: dead reckoning is easy -- Hamburg is flat, and there are enough landmarks visible at all times to immediately know where you are if you were raised here. Look for the "Fernsehturm" (TV Tower), look for the "Michel" and by their relative locations you know where you are. The river Elbe makes this even easier should you get disoriented.

But... You also instantly know that you are not in Hamburg: the building's colors and style are wrong. Most buildings in Hamburg are made from red bricks, and that color (in dark shades) permeates Hamburg; occasionally buildings may have whitewashed walls, but Hamburg is not nearly as colorful as the map makes it out to be. The Rathaus, Michel, Nikolaikirche and Fernehturm are fantastically made objects. They are, unfortunately, surrounded by too much generic stuff. And then, there are big, HUGE gaps: every kid knowns that moving up Mönkebergstrasse from Rathaus, you get to Hamburg Hauptbahnhof (Main Station), an imposing building that served half a million passengers on a daily basis even in 1980. Not on this map. There's a dinky rail, and a bridge. Following the rail west, every Hamburg-bred kid knows that you reach Dammtor, Sternschanze and Holstenstrasse, before you reach Altona. All really, really big, imposing buildings with vaulted roofs, built for steam locomotives. Not on this map. Altona is unrecognizable, the other stations are better ignored. The Süllberg, Hamburg's famous picturesque rich people quarter, is empty, and the less I speak of Hamburg's Harbor in the current state, the better. And no Köhlbrand Bridge.

So, don't get this map for accuracy reasons. It's a GAME map, and although initially disappointed, the amount of beauty, compromises made and love invested in details, to make the compromises not too jarring, recaptured my interest. I've only occasionally been to Berlin and Frankfurt, and as someone who isn't native to either, those cities seem incredibly realistic from the air even in a helicopter. Knowing that they probably are as unrealistic as Hamburg does NOT diminish my enjoyment, so I'm thinking that my misgivings about Hamburg is a "me" problem. Simply don't fly (a Helicopter) in the city you grew up in, and the rest of the map is fantastic. Berlin's Wall area is drop-dead beautiful. Frankfurt is fantastic (mostly). Airfields abound on the map, and the Fulda gap beckons my Hog in a frankly disquieting way.

Sure, Kiel is currently missing (never liked it much, but it is where the Bundesmarine is home), as are some other important cities. But Helgoland is there! (sans airfield, yet grinned when I discovered it).

So, do I like it? Yes, even though Hamburg disappointed this kid from Hamburg. I doubt that this will bother anyone not born and raised there, listening to Neue Deutsche Welle while walking through Altona's streets, courting Barbara and trying to coax a smile from her icy blue eyes.

Outside of that, a green map (the trees could use some more Birch, though), some fantastic (and truly deadly) topography (evading missiles in flat northern Germany is difficult), lots of POI, military objectives and well-rounded performance make this a promising map. It remains to be seen how content creators pick it up; I'm already thinking about creating a version of "Angels" (SAR) for this map; and yes, it's begging for "Der Himmel über Berlin" as title (a 1987 Wim Wenders film, "Wings of desire" in English, cheaply remade later as "City of Angels").

My personal verdict
So: good/bad? I like it. YMMV. Let's see how other people enjoy it and it it gets picked up by the multiplayer community.

Hummel, Hummel!
 

[funkyfranky]

Mors, Mors!

Thanks for taking the time to write this.

[Lace]

I guess this is the de facto 'First Impressions' thread then?

I'm not a hamburger, so can't comment on the geographical accuracy of anything.  However, I love the map so far.  I've tried out a few aircraft in a few locations but still only about an hour in.  My biggest shock was the performance.  I had fully braced for a terrible VR experience and was pleasantly surprised that it seems to run as well as pretty much all other maps, only slowing a bit over the built up areas. My test flights were in rain and fog, so I would expect CAVOK conditions to improve framerates a bit.  When Syria launched it was unplayable for me until a few rounds of updates and optimisations, and I was prepared for the same here.

I flew a Gazelle over Sennelager, which seemed a bit empty, but fine to build on.  I took an OH-58 briefly around Fulda, and a F-15C out of Bitburg, under the clouds, through the valleys, and then up over the clouds for a quick look around until I had to shut down.  The FC3 F-15C performance was very smooth, even over the detailed base area.  The Kiowa (always a poor performer on my system) was a bit stuttery, and the Gazelle was fine, but flying in a low-detail area for the most part.  Next flight I've a 'GR-5' lined up at Gutersloh for another test.

Anyway, TLDR; Map looks great, and performs surprisingly well in VR.

 

[Gorn_GER]

Since Speicherstadt is one of UNESCO world heritage site, I would like to see it one day updated but maybe some day one of the developers have time to do that since they already build some fantastic sites of the map. 
 

Because I am from Germany and my main interest for future DCS gameplay focus on ColdWar, it was a Must-Have for me to buy this map on Release day 

I can confirm what you said in your Text, the developers somehow got this detailed map work as smooth (even in VR) as Syria is. I will build the Future of DCS in this Map from the Past. ColdWar is the Sweetspot between slow Propeller flying (with or against a Nation that is driven by Hate) and Jets so modern that the don’t even see eachother before killing. 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Personally, I look at any DCS terrain as an "artists' impression", and judge it on its own merit. This prevents disappointment (in areas of realism at least), and allows for more enjoyment of what IS there.

I am a very happy bunny: this purchase was well worth it! And as I stated in another thread, performance is indeed very good!

[Fear-Factor]

As an Hamburger ive checked it first and basically i cant complain.
Its a DCS map and the detail level is completly fine.
The only thing what i am missing is the famous Kühlbrandbrücke but to be fair i guess the most of the future missions will be placed in other areas so for me its not a must have.
Both airports are ok and other poi´s are visible so i am fine with that.

Also checked the area around Brocken and this looks cool.
Central Germany has lot of potential for interesting missions so we will see soon what the community creates.
I like the map so far and didnt found attm any big bugs or visual desasters.
Looks like Ugra learnt their lessons well.
Good job!
 

Edited April 18 by Fear-Factor

[Boosterdog]

Looks great low and slow. Lots of clutter and objects in and around the airfields and heliports reduces the need to set build, performance on my older system is good for the most part and, if I were more inclined to have listened in geography, I susect that I would find most landmarks are roughly where I would expect them to be. Green certainly helps mask the ground clutter and small bush pop-ups. A really good day 1 experience.

Obviously its EA so Im sure there will be bugz and issues but the only one I really have currently it that the colours feel a little over saturated.  I think Ugra, should be proud of this one.

 

[OneEyeRoss]

I noticed this about Ffm.  You know it's Frankfurt, but....  In the long run, as long as you can ID the major cities, the generic buildings are fine.  Major landmarks are there, and the hills and rivers, the forested areas, etc. are in the correct spots.  The Fulda/Bad Hersfeld/Schlitz/Lauterbach/Alsfeld areas look wonderful.  Flying over in a Huey or Loach is great!  Have to take the A-10 out later on and see how it goes.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

I just did a 100min flight around Kassel in an "OH-58A" (doors installed, no pylons, no MMS, no CMWS). There are some nitpicks and optimisation passes needed:
- There is a TACAN station in the NW area of which the fence is partly on the road around it: it looks like it needs to be turned 10-15 degrees to the right to make it fit better;
- There are a few areas where the performance tanks (heavy stutters and framerate drops by half);
- There are bridge pylons that are placed ON the motorway.

But flying around this area in the late evening brought tears to my eyes! This is one heck of a map!

[Rocket_Knut]

I´m thankful, Ugra Media took on this massive task of creating and developing a Central Europe map. I am also impressed, that they value customerfeedback and put the KMU in Leipzig in so quickly, for example.

So, I bought the map in a heartbeat, of course. Hopped in a Yak-52 in Erfurt (Though correct, nobody calls it Bindersleben ). Took off and had a quick look around.  I must say, I´m impressed. The type of the landscape, hills, fields, forests... spot on. 

There is room for improvement though. Thank you for giving us the possibility to fly through the 8km long Rennsteigtunnel (Surely someone will do it, right ?!). But, back then, there was no A-71 and the ICE-railroad next to it. I also coudn´t find some landmarks, I was looking for: no "Drei Gleichen", no Inselsberg, no Glockenturm in Buchenwald... And Martin Luther might be a bit disappointed, that the "Wartburg" (the castle in which he translated the Bible into German) didn´t make it into the map. 

All in all, a luxury problem, I know. But, adressing these and other things, users bring up, will create an even better experience. Time and resources provided of course. Looking forward to improvements and the phases two and three of the map of course.

Now, I´m off, carrying on exploring the map. Thank You very much!

[Bremspropeller]

6 minutes ago, Rocket_Knut said:

And Martin Luther might be a bit disappointed, that the "Wartburg" (the castle in which he translated the Bible into German) didn´t make it into the map.

I think such historical sites should later be added.

Same with thisngs like the Herrmannsdenkmal close to Detmold and other iconic sites that help with navving.

[cellinsky]

First impression: Its a typical ugra-map with hand drawn oversaturated ground and wood textures, looking very 1990 Style. Second impression: It sports fantastic details, lots of nicely done airbases and detailed objects and landmarks. Well done. Looking forward to defend the Fulda Gap.

[RVT2403]

"97 Luftballons" chapter title gave me a good laugh, haha. (Balloons are destructible)

[Hillman]

I’m very impressed by this map. Truly a new standard.

Flying low in a helicopter over Berlin is a joy, the details are amazing and it feels so much more alive than the other maps. Every where there are small, interesting/funny details. I experienced a few crashes when switching view from cockpit to map and back, but I’m sure this will be fixed soon.

Can’t wait for the camping creators to come up with some great stories for this map.

Thanks Ugra, you exceeded my expectations!

[sirrah]

I'm not a Hamburger (nor Bratwurst), but back in the 90's me and my dad spend many days watching incoming aircraft at Ramstein AB (I kinda inflicted the mil aircraft fever on my dad who was ever so kind to drive me to all these hours away remote airfields and sit there with young me). I have golden memories watching all those Starlifters, Galaxy's, Globemasters, Hercs, C-9 Nightingale's, Extenders, and occasional fighters and special gems (like the E-4B) come and go.

It's so great to now being able to fly around in this area (taking off from Landstuhl as medevac, flying from Spangdahlem to Ramstein in an F-4.. good times! thanks Ugra this brings back good memories )

 

I really like the looks of the terrain/hills in that area (haven't had time to really explore the rest of the map), especially when adding some proper clouds it really feels like I'm there again (including shivering in the rain  )

 

 

(to complete the feeling, we now just need more cold war assets, like the ones I mentioned above)

 

[cfrag]

8 minutes ago, sirrah said:

I have golden memories watching all those Starlifters, Galaxy's, Globemasters, Hercs, C-9 Nightingale's, Extenders

Indeed. Looking at the map with a mission designer's eye, my mind is already envisioning logistics as one of the prime missions objectives 'down there' (as viewed from Hamburg, of course ) in the Fulda Gap. If/when the Herc rolls around (and some decent scripting support in DCS for cargo), it's going to be "Hog Waiter's Heaven". 

Edited April 19 by cfrag

[OneEyeRoss]

The more time I spend flying around the Vogelsberg, the more I enjoy this map.  Flying along the roads is a real trip down memory lane.  Sure, the towns and dorfs are generic, but they are in the right places, the roads and bridges are fairly well placed, the sugar beet fields are in the right spots.  You can almost smell the sugar mills turning beets into sugar.  (If you have never had the experience of smelling sugar beet mills, you are lucky).

Now, to find the right spots to put SideKick65's Cold War missions into practice over the ground they really were made for!

[MiGCap1]

Just found the A-10A tutorials from @cfrag and will now start to learn the aircraft which represents best NATO air power in the 1980s in this Cold War theatre of operations.

AND I can fly it from Hamburg-Fuhlsbüttel on a certain MP server then. 

By the way: Lived there for years ... my second home town.

 

Edited Sunday at 10:48 PM by MiGCap1
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