Chopper controls ?

[Red Dog]

Hey guys, old head flying the F-16 might contemplate switching to rotorhead for a while

Can't really do that with airplane controls, so what would be the best course of action for specific helicopters control in the HOTAS sim industry these days? 

I really can't say it will stick so I'm not sure I'll invest high amount, but I'm ready to invest wisely anyway.

Any advice, best route of action welcome. I can DIY and 3D print to a certain extend as well being a pit puilder

Many thanks for your time

[Art-J]

On 5/12/2025 at 6:43 PM, Red Dog said:

Can't really do that with airplane controls [...]

Why not, they might do the job to some extent.

You don't know if you'll enjoy helicopter experience, so I don't think I'd recommend spending money on any dedicated chopper devices just yet (unless you've just eager to spend money on something of course).

What kind of airplane controllers do you have? For example, from my experience with "airplane style" Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS set + MFG pedals, I can say these are enough for me for occasional flying a classic helo like Mi-8 module I own and like very much. Warthog throttle has sufficiently long throw to be used as collective, while extended joystick is good for accurate cyclic control. Granted, specialized controllers would be better of course, but MUCH more expensive as well, which I can't justify still being more of a fixed wing kind of guy.

Maybe your joystick and throttle would suffice as well? For a couple of free trials at least, to find out If you indeed begin liking choppers and want to invest into new hardware.

Edited May 13 by Art-J

[Dogmanbird]

if you enjoy diy and can 3d print (don't really need to even 3d print), I'd absolutely have a go at building yourself a force feedback joystick from a pair of hoverboard motors.

If you can find an old hoverboard with all alloy motors, you'll likely be able to build it cheaper than a virpil / vkb conventional joystick base 

[Red Dog]

On 5/13/2025 at 8:08 PM, Art-J said:

Why not, they might do the job to some extent.

You don't know if you'll enjoy helicopter experience, so I don't think I'd recommend spending money on any dedicated chopper devices just yet (unless you've just eager to spend money on something of course).

Thanks for your input. 
I already have tested with my setup and it kinda kills it and doesn't reflect the enjoyment I might have.

I fly a full F-16 cockpit with an old Cougar modified to a pressure gauges (FCC3) and a real F16 throttle. 

So flying a chopper in there isn't really accurate enough for me to enjoy it. Even flying a F-18 or an A-10 is on the edge

I am building a second setup to get back into IFR flight sim and that setup would be used for flying chopper more seriously than what I did up to now.
So I'm looking to invest into specific helicopters controls. Nothing crazy like the F-16 setup but something more easy to use and more flexible.
Hence my initial question

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Dogmanbird said:

if you enjoy diy and can 3d print (don't really need to even 3d print), I'd absolutely have a go at building yourself a force feedback joystick from a pair of hoverboard motors.

If you can find an old hoverboard with all alloy motors, you'll likely be able to build it cheaper than a virpil / vkb conventional joystick base 

Thanks I am into DIY but not a big fan of force feedback. I confess it's been a while I haven't tested force feedback but back when I did it was nothing close to what I feel flying for real, so I abandonned that feature long ago. 

[Dogmanbird]

it's a great looking cockpit!

Regarding force feedback, thanks to a couple of folk who've done all the hard work for us, everyone can now have a fairly powerful and affordable diy force feedback stick, rudder and collective.

At the time of writing this, the hoverboard motor option is the cheapest and most powerful, but it's just one of a few DIY choices, another one being a bit more compact, lighter weight and might be a bit more refined if limited for space. If you've got room for it, either will suit you really well for choppers and arguably a lot more versatile than any non force feedback joystick on the market.

Considering how cheaply you can now make one, I wouldn't even consider a non ffb stick for anything except for the f16

 

 

 

Edited May 15 by Dogmanbird

[Mr_sukebe]

Force feedback works really well with choppers.

 Your cockpit looks rather tight for adding a collective.  Can you move the left panel out say 4 inches?  That would give you room.

Otherwise, If you really wish to add a collective and central cyclic, I don’t see much of an option but to add a second rig.

[erniedaoage]

If you go for a second setup and you have a bit of money to spend you should get a FFB stick. It can mimic any flightcontrols you want. If you look for a collective, there is user K51 who builds collectives. He got a own thread in the for sale section 

He also makes different heads now for his collective but you have to go through the thread since i bought mine in 21. But it's a really good product sofar and i only paid like 250€ with shipping.

[Aapje]

16 hours ago, Red Dog said:

Thanks I am into DIY but not a big fan of force feedback. I confess it's been a while I haven't tested force feedback but back when I did it was nothing close to what I feel flying for real, so I abandonned that feature long ago. 

The old force feedback systems were very weak and the instructions from the game to the FFB joysticks were rather poor. The new systems have way more power and use telemetry-based FFB, for much better quality.

However, it is still an immature field. But a big advantage is that you can also use it for regular planes if you tire of helicopters or want to fly airplanes as well. Aside from acting as a cyclic, they can mimic both traditional sticks, but also the more modern force sensing sticks.

The most mature options right now are the VPForce or the FFBeast (more power) bases. Both provide DIY kits if you prefer to build them yourself. Those are both top tier 'man in shed' operations. If you want to mount them to the right of you, replacing your current stick, running without an extension, you shouldn't need a huge amount of power though. The regular 9 Nm one by VPForce should be fine. 

There is also Moza who make one as a 'real company,' but they are struggling a bit with getting the software right. In the future companies like Winwing and Virpil will release one too, but better not wait for that.

[Red Dog]

Thanks guys for all your input

It will be a separate setup, I'm not going to compromise the F-16 pit. So I'm starting from scratch but the idea is having a quick setup suitable for civil IFR flying with a G1000 probably and helicopters controls for some DCS kiowa fun.

So the cyclic and rudder will be for both the helicopter and civil flying.
I plan on having a throttle for the civil on the right side and the collective for the helicopter flying on the left side alongside the seat

Cyclic will probably be a conversion from a warthog or something simplier
The rudder is a very old hydraulic flight link rudder system. I still have plenty of those
And the real question id indeed about the collective

As I said I can do DIY but I don't have to. I also don't mind getting something simple off the shelves for the collective. Are there commercial solutions for a nice military style collective yet? 
Force feedback, I should try then but it's really not a critical part of my plan really

Thanks again for all the guidance

[flybull]

Hey RD, 

I followed your posts on Viperpit for years.  Its an honour to have you over here.  Your pit is one of the greatest of all time.

Virpil have some suitable collective grips (H-60 in particular) and collective mounts.

Cyclic is a bit harder to find a perfect solution, but again Virpil a pretty decent option.   A stick extension will be useful.  Grips are pretty slim pickings for actual helicopter designs.

What helicopter are you interested in flying? - that will influence your selection.

 

[Red Dog]

Thanks mate

Kiowa screams at me

Edited May 16 by Red Dog

[Red Dog]

one question comes to mind:

 

Should I look into a 2 axis or 1 axis collective? What's the most needed in DCS?

I'd go two considering who can more can less but is it really worth it?

 

Thanks

[Mr_sukebe]

The only chopper that really seems to take advantage of the grip/twist throttle is the Huey.  Based upon that, I bought a collective base without the twist option.  

[Dogmanbird]

a force feedback collective base is the easiest and cheapest item to build and can be directly driven (no gearing) if using a hoverboard motor. it will be very smooth and no stiction/breakthrough force. Then you can attach the grip of your choice 

Same for the rudders and are quite cheap. They too can be directly driven and smooth, but generally need a few more parts. Converting an existing set of pedals can be done and fairly inexpensive.

[Red Dog]

thanks,

 

any link to that hoverboard mod?

[Dogmanbird]

The ffbeast website has the software you'll require and you can purchase through the site. A license can work with stick, rudder or collective.    https://ffbeast.github.io/docs/en/joystick_DIY_BOM.html

Single channel motor controller   https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008096636346.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.27.7a5b1802T2NhVW

Encoder to attach to motor   https://au.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Same-Sky/AMT10E2-V?qs=81r%2BiQLm7BRm%2BE%2BZYNqNXg%3D%3D

Example of used hoverboard for sale on F-book marketplace. Usually about $50 - $80 each. Just make sure the front and back of motor are alloy.   

 

Example of power supply. One of these will be enough to run both collective and rudders.  A second one will run the joystick.     https://tinyurl.com/88pm97fk

Then you get creative with how you'd like to attach it all together. I strongly recommend a light weight but very stiff bar for the collective arm to minimise flex as flex can cause some oscillation. A carbon fibre tube works well. 

Having force feedback will allow you to add damping, shake / rumble under various conditions to suit your taste and force trim if desired.  I'm happy to show you mine if you need a place to start. It's a very basic design welded together and uses a VKB left hand grip. I'm sure you'd improve on it to suit your needs

[Dogmanbird]

The controller link above reverts to the dual channel one (required for joystick)

This is the single channel one a lot of folk use.  https://tinyurl.com/2s38pfkz

btw - the motors are very robust. If you see a cheap broken and really banged up hoverboard for sale, it's highly likely the motors are fine (i've seen inside dozens). The controller board and motors just cruise along and there's almost no heat under full power. The heatsinks included with the controller board don't appear to be necessary for flight control use.

ffb stick / rudder /collective are all working nicely in msfs2024 too

Edited May 19 by Dogmanbird