How do you know where the Radar Gimbal Limits are on the MiG-29 when cranking?

[CommandT]

Hi folks, 

Does anyone know how to identify when the radar is getting close to the gimbal limit so that you can crank and maintain lock whilst being at the maximum crank angle? Is there a way of seeing how many degrees you have cranked relative to the target somehow so that you don't accidentally crank too much and break lock? 

On the Su-27 it's easy to see this with the radar cone shown on the right screen... in the MiG-29... any ideas?

Big thanks! 

[AeriaGloria]

FC3 does this wrong. IRL and likely in FF your radar gimbal will be represented by the diamond, left side of HUD 70 degrees left and right side is 70 degrees right. 
 

so when it reaches the side then you know you’re at cranking limit, only problem is that unlike FC3 there won’t be a right border to the HUD only on HDD. So you can either look at HDD for left crank or estimate the right HUD border by when the diamond is at the numbers of the artificial horizon

[CrazyGman]

On 5/18/2025 at 12:24 AM, AeriaGloria said:

FC3 does this wrong. IRL and likely in FF your radar gimbal will be represented by the diamond, left side of HUD 70 degrees left and right side is 70 degrees right. 
 

so when it reaches the side then you know you’re at cranking limit, only problem is that unlike FC3 there won’t be a right border to the HUD only on HDD. So you can either look at HDD for left crank or estimate the right HUD border by when the diamond is at the numbers of the artificial horizon

So just to confirm. when you have locked a target, and you don't have GCI datalink, the black diamond, which is labeled "radar antenna position mark" in the picture I attached is where your locked target is on the hud correct?

I was looking for something like this on the pre-order video, but didn't see anything like it from the hud shots.

[Ironhand]

No. It’s the radar antenna position mark. By the time the diamond is halfway to the HUD margin, the target itself is well outside of the HUD. Or isn’t that your question?

[CrazyGman]

1 hour ago, Ironhand said:

No. It’s the radar antenna position mark. By the time the diamond is halfway to the HUD margin, the target itself is well outside of the HUD. Or isn’t that your question?

No this is a bit different, and by the text listed here "the antenna position mark points to the target", which I interpret as the radar antenna position symbol shows the "locked target" on the hud.

 

 

 

[AeriaGloria]

10 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

So just to confirm. when you have locked a target, and you don't have GCI datalink, the black diamond, which is labeled "radar antenna position mark" in the picture I attached is where your locked target is on the hud correct?

I was looking for something like this on the pre-order video, but didn't see anything like it from the hud shots.

I think HUD is unfinished in less order video, doesn’t show PP when IRST gain is messed with and Tate circle, diamond, and waypoint distance are missing 

 

 

Yes, the diamond does not show target position, as in it fires not cover the target like in FC3. “It points to the target” only as in it’s a gimbal limit indicator, so if target is 20 degrees up and 30 degrees left, the forming is halfway up/left on the HUD. So that if you pull towards the symbol, you will eventually be pointed right at the target when the Diamond is in the center of the HUD. 
 

No symbol covers the target IRL. All up to pilot to get visual based on the gimbal indicator and the missile launch zone once they have radar lock, and gimbal indicator only with IRST lock. 
 

Gimbal limit indicator also only properly works when upright and level. For example let’s say I lock someone in front and turn right. You won’t see gimbal limit indicator drift down the HUD pointing towards the target, it will drift left. So you will need to be level for the gimbal limit indicator to properly point towards the target

[CrazyGman]

Ahh... now that makes more sense from what west Germany pilot commentary was referring to on the radar to pilot interface. I never understood it quite from the FC3 version because I feel it gave you as the pilot still a large degree of autonomy, but definitely now with how it is laid out the pilot does seem to be quite held to following the hud cues to get into position for firing the radar guided misslies, rather then be able to have the target be highlighted on the hud and somewhat organically do the interception based on feel. Which is fine if your sending up lots of jets for a intercept against waves of targets that are flying in a predictable manner and are trying to win an attrition fight, but limits the ability for you to quickly "feel" the target and adapt to it's rapid changes without a bunch of work arounds

Edited May 20 by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

14 minutes ago, CrazyGman said:

Ahh... now that makes more sense from what west Germany pilot commentary was referring to on the radar to pilot interface. I never understood it quite from the the FC3 version because I feel it gave you as the pilot still a large degree of autonomy, but definitely now with how it is laid out the pilot does seem to be quite held to following the hud cues to get into position for firing the radar guided misslies rather then be able to have the target be highlighted on the hud, and somewhat organically do the interception based on feel. Which is fine if you sending up lots of jets for a intercept against waves of targets that are flying in a predictable manner and are trying to win an attrition fight, but limits the ability for you to quickly "feel" the target and adapt to it's rapid changes without a bunch of work arounds

Not to mention you can’t even see target speed and altitude without datalink! 

[Ironhand]

17 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

No this is a bit different, and by the text listed here "the antenna position mark points to the target", which I interpret as the radar antenna position symbol shows the "locked target" on the hud.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, what book are you referencing? Specifically, the ISBN number.

Edited May 20 by Ironhand

[CrazyGman]

1 hour ago, Ironhand said:

Out of curiosity, what book are you referencing? Specifically, the ISBN number.

MiG-29 Flight Manual (Schiffer Military History Book) - Softcover

Wise, Alan R.

ISBN-10	0764313894

ISBN-13	978-0764313899

[Ironhand]

1 minute ago, CrazyGman said:

MiG-29 Flight Manual (Schiffer Military History Book) - Softcover

Wise, Alan R.

ISBN-10	0764313894

ISBN-13	978-0764313899

Excellent. I was thinking that might be the one. I had ordered it earlier this AM.

[Dudikoff]

AM Dawn, perhaps?

[CrazyGman]

12 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Not to mention you can’t even see target speed and altitude without datalink! 

Just to confirm, your still able to see target aspect with radar lock without GCI datalink? Just you won't see it if it's locked only with IRST?

 

[AeriaGloria]

4 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

Just to confirm, your still able to see target aspect with radar lock without GCI datalink? Just you won't see it if it's locked only with IRST?

 

Exactly. Target aspect with radar, not with IRST even after ranging.