Option for players joining a server to download mods that they don’t already have installed

[Mr_sukebe]

A definite “area of opportunity” that DCS has in the multiplayer realm is consistency of mods.

There are some ace mods out there, but if a player tries to join a server and the player doesn’t have a mod that’s needed to join, all they get is a name of the missing mod.

personally, I’d love to have:

- a central repository for mods, that would host all mods that are needed to join a server, ie aircraft, ships, statics etc.  To exclude skins, which have large texture volumes

- the option for the mission hosting server (eg myself) to auto upload to the central repository

- when a player attempts to join a server that needs a mod they don’t have, they’re given the option to download from the central repository.  Sure, might take a couple of mins, but as we’re excluding larger elements like skins, hopefully the volumes won’t be too onorous

Edited June 5 by Mr_sukebe

[upyr1]

I want a built in mod manager and a better user files section too. Also I would love to see a asset pack/mod filter 

[SharpeXB]

Please no. What you’re describing there seems like a horrible mess. Unofficial mods cause too many problems and I don’t think very many people want to be forced to deal with them in order to play online. If someone wants to use these on an individual basis that’s their choice. But trying to go too far encouraging their widespread use is problematic. 
Frankly what you’re asking for can already be done so I’m not sure why ED would need to be involved. A mission briefing could easily include links to these mods. And there is already a User Files section on the DCS website for these. But again I think you will find most people aren’t interested. 

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

9 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Please no. What you’re describing there seems like a horrible mess. Unofficial mods cause too many problems and I don’t think very many people want to be forced to deal with them in order to play online. If someone wants to use these on an individual basis that’s their choice. But trying to go too far encouraging their widespread use is problematic. 
Frankly what you’re asking for can already be done so I’m not sure why ED would need to be involved. A mission briefing could easily include links to these mods. And there is already a User Files section on the DCS website for these. But again I think you will find most people aren’t interested. 

I had flashbacks to the overly bloated adminmods on any Half-Life game server.

[Mr_sukebe]

Sharpe>
you seem to have not read my comment that the use of the suggestion should be OPTIONAL for players to choose whether or not to use it.

[SharpeXB]

2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Sharpe>
you seem to have not read my comment that the use of the suggestion should be OPTIONAL for players to choose whether or not to use it.

Optional or not, the problem with this suggestion is that it gives unofficial mods an official treatment. Trying to make it easier for players to put things into the game that will break it. The reason you don’t see enough people joining your server is most players are savvy enough to know that these mods aren’t worth the trouble they cause. Encouraging their use in MP and popularizing them through in-game features would be detrimental.

Edited June 7 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

8 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Sharpe>
you seem to have not read my comment that the use of the suggestion should be OPTIONAL for players to choose whether or not to use it.

You're dealing with a guy who opposed adding a filter to the DCS server list to hide servers with mods and asset packs you don't have. His basic argument was that hiding servers he'd have problems connecting too would be a bad idea becuse it would make it easier to use mods and that a modder should add the filter. Not once did he consider that a filter would make things easier for people like him who don't want to use mods, as it would hide all the modded servers. 

[SharpeXB]

42 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

You're dealing with a guy who opposed adding a filter to the DCS server list to hide servers with mods and asset packs you don't have.

Since unofficial mods are unofficial the game wouldn’t know what they are in order to filter them. There could be an overall mods On or Off mode but I wouldn’t want the Devs to spend their limited resources on mods one way or the other. 

Edited June 7 by SharpeXB

[upyr1]

5 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Optional or not, the problem with this suggestion is that it gives unofficial mods an official treatment. Trying to make it easier for players to put things into the game that will break it. The reason you don’t see enough people joining your server is most players are savvy enough to know that these mods aren’t worth the trouble they cause. Encouraging their use in MP and popularizing them through in-game features would be detrimental.

Like it or not, there are people who are willing to use mods. The fact you hate mods doesn't change that fact. The fact there are people out there like yourself who hate mods is the reason that I want a filter so they can hide servers that use mods and official asset packs they don't have.  There are developers who get their start developing mods for DCS and there are modules which were originally mods. I understand you don't want mods which is why I think as there needs to be a filter. Even if there were no mods there would need to be a filter because of asset packs 

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Since unofficial mods are unofficial the game wouldn’t know what they are in order to filter them. There could be an overall mods On or Off mode but I wouldn’t want the Devs to spend their limited resources on mods one way or the other. 

DCS already keeps track of all the installed modules, asset packs, and mods  

null

nullThis module manager is part of DCS core it allows you to install or disable mods, modules, and asset packs 

nullThat is where you click to access it

Next missions already list what mods and asset packs they require

This one required the WW II asset pack and the VSN F-105 When you don't have the VSN F-105 installed and you try to load a mission, you get this screen. 

nullIf you mean a switch that will hide all servers that use mods when you say you want an overall mods on/off switch, the coding to accomplish this isn't going to be much different than an asset filter. For an overall mod on/off to work, you would need to compare the assets a server requires to an official asset list. The installed asset filter would compare a server's assets to your installed assets. The only differences are where the list comes from, and the chances of you trying to connect to a server with the WWII or South Atlantic Asset packs, even though you don't have either. So in the end the only real difference between the mods on/off list and the asset list is that you don't have the risk of connecting to a server with an official asset pack you don't have.  Then with the suggestion that started the thread when the filter is off and you try to connect to a server with an asset pack or mod you don't have you could be given the option of either downloading or buing it in the case of on official asset pack

Edited June 8 by upyr1

[SharpeXB]

45 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

DCS already keeps track of all the installed modules, asset packs, and mods

How would the game filter unofficial content? The only thing it could determine is On or Off.

And again if you’re just looking for a way to encourage or popularize the use of these in the online game that’s a No-Go

Edited June 8 by SharpeXB

[Mr_sukebe]

Whenever you attempt to use a mission, if it has a mod that the player doesn't have installed, it'll tell you.

You really think that it wouldn't be possible to filter based upon that?

Apologies, but you're coming across as argumentative just because you can be.  

 

To add to the above.  If you see no value for this for yourself.  That's cool, and I appreciate you saying so.  
However, to then continue to state that it's of no value to someone else is simply ridiculous.  Clearly, I wouldn't raise the suggestion if at least I didn't see value for it.

As part of raising this suggestion here is to judge feedback from fellow players to see whether others value it.

So yes, please DO post to say that you it's not of value to you personally, that is useful for the thread.  Don't however extend that in a presumptuous manner to people that you don't know.

Edited June 8 by Mr_sukebe

[upyr1]

17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

How would the game filter unofficial content?

I have told you before the built in DCS module manager already lists mods as well as maps and modules you have installed and DCS missions already list the assets required. I have also stated that when DCS sees a mission that requires an asset that you don't have enabled, you get a message telling you that.  

17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The only thing it could determine is On or Off.

How do you think an on/off switch would work? 

17 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

And again if you’re just looking for a way to encourage or popularize the use of these in the online game that’s a No-Go

DCS' missing assets already encourage and popularize the use of mods online, so all that a good filter, such as the one I proposed, would do is enable people who don't have any mods or official asset packs to avoid the servers that use them. As a mod on/off switch won't test for official asset pack, even if any server with a mod is hidden, you would still run the risk of trying to connect to a server that uses an asset pack you don't have. However, if we get down to it, your problem, Mr. Humphies, is that the ability to filter out both mods and asset packs you don't have would give you one less thing to complain about it would make avoiding mods a lot easier. I get it, Mike, listening to yourself complain is your greatest joy in life. 

 

Edited June 8 by upyr1

[SharpeXB]

The reality is none of the servers I see with more than 8 players use any mods. Heatblur CW (with 7 players) appears to use the Community A-4 but doesn’t prompt you about it. So there must be some workaround possible that makes the original suggestion unnecessary. 
In any case since almost nobody uses mods online there’s very little value in creating features around them. 

[upyr1]

8 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Whenever you attempt to use a mission, if it has a mod that the player doesn't have installed, it'll tell you.

You really think that it wouldn't be possible to filter based upon that?

Apologies, but you're coming across as argumentative just because you can be.  

I literally posted that DCS lists what you would have to test for. 

 First you would need a list of the installed modules and mods 

We got that next you would need a list of the mods a server requires 

That is included in the mission file and lastly you would need the abiility to determine if the lists differ

We got that too. Now to get all of this to work, your copy of DCS would have to query the servers to find one which only uses what you have installed. This same filter might also enable player to look for a server that has their favorite module. This guys arguments against having a frequently used controls preset is that controls aren't 100% the same for everything (never mind the fact the idea is to get you enough set up for a free flight). His argument against having a graphics configuration wizard was that ED would need a Cray to run a billion copies of DCS to get every possible configuration when you could use an old-style graphics wizard and ask users if they wanted to contribute their bench mark scores to a database. 

8 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said:

To add to the above.  If you see no value for this for yourself.  That's cool, and I appreciate you saying so.  
However, to then continue to state that it's of no value to someone else is simply ridiculous.  Clearly, I wouldn't raise the suggestion if at least I didn't see value for it.

As part of raising this suggestion here is to judge feedback from fellow players to see whether others value it.

So yes, please DO post to say that you it's not of value to you personally, that is useful for the thread.  Don't however extend that in a presumptuous manner to people that you don't know.

I think the best thing to do with SharpXb is to put him on your ignore list. 

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The reality is none of the servers I see with more than 8 players use any mods. Heatblur CW (with 7 players) appears to use the Community A-4 but doesn’t prompt you about it. So there must be some workaround possible that makes the original suggestion unnecessary. 
In any case since almost nobody uses mods online there’s very little value in creating features around them. 

Honestly, I don't trust your judgment when it comes to how many people use mods. A good example of why was this comment

19 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

How would the game filter unofficial content? The only thing it could determine is On or Off.

 

which was a reply to this post 

Where I show with screenshots that DCS keeps track of the mods and official DLC you have installed on your system as well as the mods and DLC that a mission requires. which leads me to conclude that you are unwilling that once your mind is made up, you won't change your mind no matter what evidence is presented to you. As I have stated in the past the only way around this issue which would would be for the following.

• Eliminate all mod support- the fact that some developers started as modders means this really isn't an option.
• Allow modders to code a replacement model from DCS core- I'd still include the option to filter out mods and asset packs you don't have
• As suggested, give players the option to download a required mod or buy a required asset pack (the code would mostly be the same) This would work best with a filter to enable people to limit themselves to servers with mods and asset packs they have

The fact you have no desire to use any mods doesn't change the fact that there are squadrons and other people who want to use them. In order for this suggestion to work you would need either an official mod repository and mod manager or have the server feed it's required mods list and a repository to third-party mod managers so they could be downloaded from there. 

 

 

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

Honestly, I don't trust your judgment when it comes to how many people use mods.

Check for yourself. Try to find a server running mods. 

[upyr1]

11 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Check for yourself. Try to find a server running mods. 

As stated before your response to me literally posting screen shots of DCS showing how it tracks both official and unoffical content used by a mission and installed locally 

was to reply 

20 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

How would the game filter unofficial content? 

You have clearly shown that you ignore things that go against your opinion. In the case above you want to believe it would be impossible to track unofficial content when all would need to be done is for a server to list the required assets (which is already done) as well as track what is locally installed on DCS (which is already done). The end result would be a filter that limited you to servers that only require mods and asset packs you have installed. So why should I trust your assessments of how many people use mods?

18 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Check for yourself. Try to find a server running mods. 

As I have stated in the past there are servers that use mods, I have connected to them and I have been part of a squadron that used them. I don't claim to know how many people use mods online. All I claim to know is some people like them and some people don't and adding a better repository and a mod manager would make DCS better for those who want the mods, and my filter suggestion would make it easier for those who don't want mods to avoid them. 

[SharpeXB]

9 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

As I have stated in the past there are servers that use mods

Which ones? I just looked at every server (on prime time weekend hours) that had more than 8 players and none of them ran mods.

[ShuRugal]

49 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

You have clearly shown that you ignore things that go against your opinion. 

That describes every single post the user you are arguing with has ever made on this forum.

report the user for trolling, add to your ignore list, and move on.  You've expended more activity arguing with this one troll than the suggestion forum typically sees in a week.  There's no point in wasting your energy having a conversation with this user.  It doesn't matter what you say or how correct you are, the troll will continue to troll you.

[Cab]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Which ones? I just looked at every server (on prime time weekend hours) that had more than 8 players and none of them ran mods.

Just off the top of my head, the Contention Cold War server uses the A-4 mod.

Edit: I also see Grey Flag, Wolf Pack, and One Actual

Edited June 9 by Cab

[upyr1]

1 hour ago, ShuRugal said:

That describes every single post the user you are arguing with has ever made on this forum.

report the user for trolling, add to your ignore list, and move on.  You've expended more activity arguing with this one troll than the suggestion forum typically sees in a week.  There's no point in wasting your energy having a conversation with this user.  It doesn't matter what you say or how correct you are, the troll will continue to troll you.

I have sometimes I just don't take Mark Twain's advice 

[ShuRugal]

4 minutes ago, upyr1 said:

I have sometimes I just don't take Mark Twain's advice 

yeah, that's definitely one of the harder pieces of life advice to adhere to.

absolutely worth it, though.  I have never regretted resisting the temptation, and i have never failed to regret giving in.

[SharpeXB]

43 minutes ago, Cab said:

Just off the top of my head, the Contention Cold War server uses the A-4 mod.

I play on that server and it doesn’t require you to download the mod, neither does Heatblur. So there must be a workaround for that perhaps by substituting an official AI aircraft or something. The problem is requiring people to download mods who don’t want them installed, that’s my objection. Whatever is being done there is a better solution. I’m in favor of that. 

45 minutes ago, Cab said:

I also see Grey Flag, Wolf Pack, and One Actual

I limited my search to servers with 8 or more players. Probably these aren’t very well attended. It’s quite clear that the vast majority of players online aren’t using mods. 

[Cab]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I play on that server and it doesn’t require you to download the mod, neither does Heatblur. So there must be a workaround for that perhaps by substituting an official AI aircraft or something. The problem is requiring people to download mods who don’t want them installed, that’s my objection. Whatever is being done there is a better solution. I’m in favor of that.

Correct. If you don't have the A-4 installed, you see the Su-27. It's been like that for a couple of years on Enigma, now Heatblur.

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I limited my search to servers with 8 or more players. Probably these aren’t very well attended. 

Nope. I used your criteria. 

The point is mods are used on some popular servers.