Flight model how is it and how's FFB

[=475FG= Dawger]

23 minutes ago, Victory205 said:

Yes, pretty much. In the SNJ, T28 and even the little 400hp T34C, when your left hand isn't doing something else, it's resting on the trim controls, which in those aircraft are knobs and wheels that allow for very precise control. The downside compared to jet coolie hat trim, is that you have to remove your hand from the throttle to make inputs. You don't trim during aerobatic maneuvers, but during cruise, climb, descent and approach, any power input or speed change, then the wheels are constantly moving to relieve control pressures. The mantra was "Power, Attitude, Trim", in that order. We get away with it in flight sims, because our controllers produce very light spring forces (I'm about to move to FFB, hopefully it will be a more realistic experience).

I posted an article here that talks about the F4U having very light control feel, almost "too light", in contrast to the P47 and especially the Mustang, which was a two handed airplane due to it's heavy stick forces. There are maneuver evaluations in the article that are surprising. It describes how the F6F ran out of rudder trim in some flight regimes, requiring constant, heavy rudder inputs which caused pilot fatigue on climbs and diving maneuvers due to the fin offset typical in prop fighters..

The DCS F4U-1D will roll inverted to the left if you give it full wellie on a wave off if you allow it to get too slow. On carrier final turns, pilots report having to use right rudder in a left bank to coordinate the turn properly due to the power requried for approach. The sim seems to be in the ballpark, but I haven't flown the Corsair, nor have any of the Youtube "test pilots" who are making claims about realism, pro or con.

I (and I imagine everyone else) used very tight throttle friction to keep the throttle where I put it because that hand was always doing something else on a trim axis.

DCS has been very unimpressive with modeling engine torque in its Warbirds. And to be fair, compared to a jet, flying a high horsepower prop is a lot more work. However, I would love to see the true power of those massive engines properly simulated.

The Spitfire XVI could not takeoff in a straight line at full power. I knew a bunch of Mustang and Corsair pilots back in the last century and what we have in DCS doesn't match their experiences or other evidence.

I've packed my flying gear but if the Corsair is modeled properly I just might dig it back out but I am not convinced yet.

[Victory205]

Of course, especially compared to FBW jets. The other consideration is that modern warbird owners aren't using max power for takeoffs (racers excepted) due to engine preservation $$$ and a lack of high octane fuel.

The DCS F4U has to be slow to get it to torque roll, but it will do it. 

The DCS P51 would get into a little coupled nose oscillation where it would describe a little circle on approach. I have a friend who owned two mustangs, and he gave me that RCA Dog look when I asked him about it. 

Given how long it took MagnitudeTrois to release the F4U-1D, I'm not too hopeful that we're going to see prompt fixes in upcoming patches. We'll see.

[UrgentSiesta]

On 6/21/2025 at 1:15 AM, PL_Harpoon said:

I'd advise against it. You'll need the full range for landings if you want to do them properly.

I'm flying with Pitch at 70% saturation with absolutely no issues in a TM Warthog. IMHo, good landings are way more about power & speed management.

[PL_Harpoon]

Ideally you want to touch down at stall speed and at stall speed you need full deflection. That's why I don't recommend saturation in pitch.

[UrgentSiesta]

4 minutes ago, PL_Harpoon said:

Ideally you want to touch down at stall speed and at stall speed you need full deflection. That's why I don't recommend saturation in pitch.

Could be - I'm definitely flying a bit high and a bit fast - on purpose - as I get settled in to the plane.

Only crash I've had so far was because I left the tail wheel unlocked for a shore landing.

IME with DCS, any full deflection control movements have usually caused issues.

I'll see how I fare, and if I need to dial it back for CV ops, I surely will. But so far, so good.

 

 

[UrgentSiesta]

On 6/20/2025 at 1:57 PM, motoadve said:

Something about the Corsair is that is a kind plane that needs trim all the time, change attitude , trim, change power setting, trim, has a lot of torque.

When a mission starts the trim is all over the place, if you don't trim it it will fly horrible.

This is how all non-Fly-by-Wire aircraft are IRL, especially Hi Po props.

E.g., Tomcat needs frequent trimming, too.

On 6/20/2025 at 2:02 PM, dcval said:

This aircraft is a joke, a bad one for the price, it seems the FM is as bad as the sounds. And last but not least, it shows really bad perf while in VR. ED Cash machine is the real business flight model of this company. 

While I agree it needs work (and that's shocking given how long it's been in development), this is the intrinsic nature of Early Access. And I can't think of an EA module that didn't need work on release...

VR is still a niche user group, about 20% at most from the figures I've seen.

Flight model...? It's reasonable if you fly reasonably, even in combat.

Vs other simulated Corsairs, the value, fidelity and performance is, IMHO, very good.

BUT, as I and others have said, given how long it's taken to get this bird to release, I'm not gonna hold my breath on quick updates to FM or systems.

But all in all, I'm happy it's in game - WW2 carrier ops (and PTO) are loooong overdue.

Edited June 26 by UrgentSiesta

[PatrHasle]

Quote

On 6/21/2025 at 2:18 AM, ldnz said:

After a number of hours last night I've found it a joy with a VPForce FFB - responding well to trim and giving plenty of feedback. It feels heavy to me with FFB, and I can't follow some of the extreme negative comments above at all with my setup.

That‘s weird… My Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 works very well with all other modules but with the Corsair, it only gives me a stick centre force but no change in trim forces. Meaning that when I change elevator trim, the aircraft‘s pitch changes but the stick forces remain the same with the stick centred. Can the original poster please confirm that the force feedback forces change with trim inputs, please?

 

[ldnz]

Yes, definitely responds to trim.

[PatrHasle]

Quote

On 6/28/2025 at 2:26 AM, ldnz said:

Yes, definitely responds to trim.

 

Thanks for the reply. So your stick moves forward when trimming nose down and backward when trimming nose up? Tested it again on my system yesterday, but my Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 still doesn’t respond to trim at all. Very weird that it seems to work for you. Otherwise I would just have assumed that force feedback (disappointingly!) just has not been properly implemented yet… I know that we are also using different Force Feedback devices - but so far (with any other module), it has always worked out of the box for me. Are you using some third party software to generate the force feedback data?

[Gunfreak]

Neither does my brunner. And I'm now so used to it. That it feels very odd trimming the aircraft and not feel the stick move.

[Hiob]

On 6/21/2025 at 2:18 AM, ldnz said:

but I'd imagine with FFB there would be enough weight in the pedals to completely change that (like it does for the stick)

unfortunately it doesn’t, no. You can put more resistance to it, but still a minuscule movement results in wild nose reaction.

4 hours ago, PatrHasle said:

Thanks for the reply. So your stick moves forward when trimming nose down and backward when trimming nose up? Tested it again on my system yesterday, but my Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 still doesn’t respond to trim at all. Very weird that it seems to work for you. Otherwise I would just have assumed that force feedback (disappointingly!) just has not been properly implemented yet… I know that we are also using different Force Feedback devices - but so far (with any other module), it has always worked out of the box for me. Are you using some third party software to generate the force feedback data?

Question is if trim following is enabled natively by directx or is a feature of the effects software (TelemFFB for Rhino devices). I assume it is the latter here.

[=475FG= Dawger]

On 6/26/2025 at 4:26 PM, PL_Harpoon said:

Ideally you want to touch down at stall speed and at stall speed you need full deflection. That's why I don't recommend saturation in pitch.

If the airplane (power off) will not stall except at full elevator deflection, it is modeled wrong. 

[ldnz]

I'll have another look - but I don't have a centre detent configured in VPForce, and its reasonably long given I've got a VKB grip on it (the adaptor adds ~5cm to an already long arm on the VPForce), so I can't feel/don't care about the exact centre position - I just trim until forces are neutral which works fine in both roll and pitch. I have noted that at cruising speeds the trim does tend to get to near centred on all 3 axis (back from the +6/+6/0.5 you takeoff with) so may be thats what you're noticing? It seems well rigged for normal speeds.

Solved any rudder issue with a healthy curve, have all the control and stability I need now!

[BeforeBroadband]

On 6/29/2025 at 1:46 AM, PatrHasle said:

Thanks for the reply. So your stick moves forward when trimming nose down and backward when trimming nose up?

VP Force Rhino doesn't. Just tested it. I have Bf 109, F4U, both Fw190s, Mosquito, P-47, P-51 and Spitfire. Bf 109 and F4U are the only two in this list that don't. Stick forces get relieved, but it stays still.

[Hiob]

7 hours ago, BeforeBroadband said:

VP Force Rhino doesn't. 

Yes it does. If it doesn't for you, you've missed something.

7 hours ago, BeforeBroadband said:

Stick forces get relieved, but it stays still.

This is self-contradictory.

[MAXsenna]

28 minutes ago, Hiob said:

Yes it does. If it doesn't for you, you've missed something.

Even with DX only or with telemetry effects?

29 minutes ago, Hiob said:

This is self-contradictory.

Not really. The stick in the C-101 doesn't move, while you can "let it go" when you trim. Same for FBW like the F/A-18C. I assume that's what he means.  

Cheers! 

[Hiob]

55 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Even with DX only or with telemetry effects?

Not really. The stick in the C-101 doesn't move, while you can "let it go" when you trim. Same for FBW like the F/A-18C. I assume that's what he means.  

Cheers! 

Using the Rhino without TelemFFB would be like buying a sports car and getting rid of two wheels...... it's an elementary part of the experience. 

Granted, there are some exotic trim variants in certain aircraft, but generally (for non-fbw), if the stick moves for the aircraft when you trim, the Rhino will move as well.

[MAXsenna]

Using the Rhino without TelemFFB would be like buying a sports car and getting rid of two wheels...... it's an elementary part of the experience. 
Granted, there are some exotic trim variants in certain aircraft, but generally (for non-fbw), if the stick moves for the aircraft when you trim, the Rhino will move as well.

So the module doesn't support the stick moving when trimming currently.

Disagree with your analogy, personally I don't like faux effects, but that's just me.


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[Hiob]

23 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

So the module doesn't support the stick moving when trimming currently.

Disagree with your analogy, personally I don't like faux effects, but that's just me.


Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

to each his own of course, but I can't imagine to do without TelemFFB. 

[MAXsenna]

to each his own of course, but I can't imagine to do without TelemFFB. 

Yeah, I get that! Stick moving with the trim is like top in my list though.

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[Gunfreak]

I have a simshaker pad that gives me feedback for much of what i need, though it seems the Corsair lacks telemetry for all kinda things. It shakes a lot just flying. But there's no feedback for gun use or weapons drop. So I assume this is also why force feedback is not quite right. The module simply doesn't have a lot of telemetry data "sendt out " little or no telemetry for ffb or simshaker pad.

[motoadve]

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

I have a simshaker pad that gives me feedback for much of what i need, though it seems the Corsair lacks telemetry for all kinda things. It shakes a lot just flying. But there's no feedback for gun use or weapons drop. So I assume this is also why force feedback is not quite right. The module simply doesn't have a lot of telemetry data "sendt out " little or no telemetry for ffb or simshaker pad.

I copied the P47 profile in Telem for the Corsair and works great

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, motoadve said:

I copied the P47 profile in Telem for the Corsair and works great

In what?

[motoadve]

2 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

In what?

Here null

[MAXsenna]

Here null

Yeah, but he's talking about a "shaker seat pad"/bass shaker, not an FFB joystick base.
"Same", but not same.

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