Flight model how is it and how's FFB

[=475FG= Dawger]

23 minutes ago, Victory205 said:

Yes, pretty much. In the SNJ, T28 and even the little 400hp T34C, when your left hand isn't doing something else, it's resting on the trim controls, which in those aircraft are knobs and wheels that allow for very precise control. The downside compared to jet coolie hat trim, is that you have to remove your hand from the throttle to make inputs. You don't trim during aerobatic maneuvers, but during cruise, climb, descent and approach, any power input or speed change, then the wheels are constantly moving to relieve control pressures. The mantra was "Power, Attitude, Trim", in that order. We get away with it in flight sims, because our controllers produce very light spring forces (I'm about to move to FFB, hopefully it will be a more realistic experience).

I posted an article here that talks about the F4U having very light control feel, almost "too light", in contrast to the P47 and especially the Mustang, which was a two handed airplane due to it's heavy stick forces. There are maneuver evaluations in the article that are surprising. It describes how the F6F ran out of rudder trim in some flight regimes, requiring constant, heavy rudder inputs which caused pilot fatigue on climbs and diving maneuvers due to the fin offset typical in prop fighters..

The DCS F4U-1D will roll inverted to the left if you give it full wellie on a wave off if you allow it to get too slow. On carrier final turns, pilots report having to use right rudder in a left bank to coordinate the turn properly due to the power requried for approach. The sim seems to be in the ballpark, but I haven't flown the Corsair, nor have any of the Youtube "test pilots" who are making claims about realism, pro or con.

I (and I imagine everyone else) used very tight throttle friction to keep the throttle where I put it because that hand was always doing something else on a trim axis.

DCS has been very unimpressive with modeling engine torque in its Warbirds. And to be fair, compared to a jet, flying a high horsepower prop is a lot more work. However, I would love to see the true power of those massive engines properly simulated.

The Spitfire XVI could not takeoff in a straight line at full power. I knew a bunch of Mustang and Corsair pilots back in the last century and what we have in DCS doesn't match their experiences or other evidence.

I've packed my flying gear but if the Corsair is modeled properly I just might dig it back out but I am not convinced yet.

[Victory205]

Of course, especially compared to FBW jets. The other consideration is that modern warbird owners aren't using max power for takeoffs (racers excepted) due to engine preservation $$$ and a lack of high octane fuel.

The DCS F4U has to be slow to get it to torque roll, but it will do it. 

The DCS P51 would get into a little coupled nose oscillation where it would describe a little circle on approach. I have a friend who owned two mustangs, and he gave me that RCA Dog look when I asked him about it. 

Given how long it took MagnitudeTrois to release the F4U-1D, I'm not too hopeful that we're going to see prompt fixes in upcoming patches. We'll see.

[UrgentSiesta]

On 6/21/2025 at 1:15 AM, PL_Harpoon said:

I'd advise against it. You'll need the full range for landings if you want to do them properly.

I'm flying with Pitch at 70% saturation with absolutely no issues in a TM Warthog. IMHo, good landings are way more about power & speed management.

[PL_Harpoon]

Ideally you want to touch down at stall speed and at stall speed you need full deflection. That's why I don't recommend saturation in pitch.

[UrgentSiesta]

4 minutes ago, PL_Harpoon said:

Ideally you want to touch down at stall speed and at stall speed you need full deflection. That's why I don't recommend saturation in pitch.

Could be - I'm definitely flying a bit high and a bit fast - on purpose - as I get settled in to the plane.

Only crash I've had so far was because I left the tail wheel unlocked for a shore landing.

IME with DCS, any full deflection control movements have usually caused issues.

I'll see how I fare, and if I need to dial it back for CV ops, I surely will. But so far, so good.

 

 

[UrgentSiesta]

On 6/20/2025 at 1:57 PM, motoadve said:

Something about the Corsair is that is a kind plane that needs trim all the time, change attitude , trim, change power setting, trim, has a lot of torque.

When a mission starts the trim is all over the place, if you don't trim it it will fly horrible.

This is how all non-Fly-by-Wire aircraft are IRL, especially Hi Po props.

E.g., Tomcat needs frequent trimming, too.

On 6/20/2025 at 2:02 PM, dcval said:

This aircraft is a joke, a bad one for the price, it seems the FM is as bad as the sounds. And last but not least, it shows really bad perf while in VR. ED Cash machine is the real business flight model of this company. 

While I agree it needs work (and that's shocking given how long it's been in development), this is the intrinsic nature of Early Access. And I can't think of an EA module that didn't need work on release...

VR is still a niche user group, about 20% at most from the figures I've seen.

Flight model...? It's reasonable if you fly reasonably, even in combat.

Vs other simulated Corsairs, the value, fidelity and performance is, IMHO, very good.

BUT, as I and others have said, given how long it's taken to get this bird to release, I'm not gonna hold my breath on quick updates to FM or systems.

But all in all, I'm happy it's in game - WW2 carrier ops (and PTO) are loooong overdue.

Edited Thursday at 09:50 PM by UrgentSiesta

[PatrHasle]

Quote

On 6/21/2025 at 2:18 AM, ldnz said:

After a number of hours last night I've found it a joy with a VPForce FFB - responding well to trim and giving plenty of feedback. It feels heavy to me with FFB, and I can't follow some of the extreme negative comments above at all with my setup.

That‘s weird… My Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 works very well with all other modules but with the Corsair, it only gives me a stick centre force but no change in trim forces. Meaning that when I change elevator trim, the aircraft‘s pitch changes but the stick forces remain the same with the stick centred. Can the original poster please confirm that the force feedback forces change with trim inputs, please?

 

[ldnz]

Yes, definitely responds to trim.

[PatrHasle]

Quote

On 6/28/2025 at 2:26 AM, ldnz said:

Yes, definitely responds to trim.

 

Thanks for the reply. So your stick moves forward when trimming nose down and backward when trimming nose up? Tested it again on my system yesterday, but my Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 still doesn’t respond to trim at all. Very weird that it seems to work for you. Otherwise I would just have assumed that force feedback (disappointingly!) just has not been properly implemented yet… I know that we are also using different Force Feedback devices - but so far (with any other module), it has always worked out of the box for me. Are you using some third party software to generate the force feedback data?

[Gunfreak]

Neither does my brunner. And I'm now so used to it. That it feels very odd trimming the aircraft and not feel the stick move.

[Hiob]

On 6/21/2025 at 2:18 AM, ldnz said:

but I'd imagine with FFB there would be enough weight in the pedals to completely change that (like it does for the stick)

unfortunately it doesn’t, no. You can put more resistance to it, but still a minuscule movement results in wild nose reaction.

4 hours ago, PatrHasle said:

Thanks for the reply. So your stick moves forward when trimming nose down and backward when trimming nose up? Tested it again on my system yesterday, but my Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 still doesn’t respond to trim at all. Very weird that it seems to work for you. Otherwise I would just have assumed that force feedback (disappointingly!) just has not been properly implemented yet… I know that we are also using different Force Feedback devices - but so far (with any other module), it has always worked out of the box for me. Are you using some third party software to generate the force feedback data?

Question is if trim following is enabled natively by directx or is a feature of the effects software (TelemFFB for Rhino devices). I assume it is the latter here.