trimmer poll

[159th_Viper]

Post by a member of the ED Team:

 

IMPORTANT! There are a readme MISTAKE!

All trimming values (HelicopterTrimmerZoneNnnnn) are entering in track, so track will be play correctly with any values!

[Zembla]

I found I was so used to the old trimmer that the new trimmer... didn't really work out for me.

 

I always very quickly recentered my stick after trimming, and with the new trimmer this sometimes meant I had difficulty regaining control of my bird, as the controls would lock up.

 

-Z

[vortex360]

Ditto, I'm exactly the same and don't trim unless I'm flying a long distance.

 

Right. I use it as sort of an autopilot.

[tonym]

New trim don't work with Cougar

 

I have tried the new trim system, but with a Cougar HOTAS stick the movements are so small that the position is always so near center that the new trim doesn't work properly. So gone back to original system.

[Wizz]

I have tried the new trim system, but with a Cougar HOTAS stick the movements are so small that the position is always so near center that the new trim doesn't work properly. So gone back to original system.

 

I have a Cougar HOTAS setup and it works fine for me. Try playing around with the axis settings. A little deadzone makes for a larger 'center' for the stick to hit.

[Skydiver]

Loved old system trimmer here.

 

Tried new style with the update and found it confusing at first, then with a little explanation and usage all became clear.

 

I won't be going back, I find new trimmer much smoother to find hover, (and consequently easier to leave hover) and fly around in general.

[Bulletstop]

I have never had a problem with the trim, so I am staying with the old.

[fox_111]

I just mastered the new trim. I prefer it to the old one now.

 

It was frustrating at first, since I masted the first one after a lot of work and practice. Now the new one is even smooter.

[My Fing ID]

Old system. I had a hard enough time just getting trim to work right I'm not going to be able to trim then center the stick in combat. I'm sticking with the old system because worst case if I forget to center, I'm not flinging the stick around like a mad man while going sideways into the ground at 50 kph while being shot at.

[fox_111]

Old system. I had a hard enough time just getting trim to work right I'm not going to be able to trim then center the stick in combat. I'm sticking with the old system because worst case if I forget to center, I'm not flinging the stick around like a mad man while going sideways into the ground at 50 kph while being shot at.

 

Try not to trim when manuvering in combat, unless you want to maintain a straight flight. When I begin to manuver hard in combat, I sometime reset my trim so I can have all the free motion back on the stick and not bust my rotors.

[wheelhaus]

Try not to trim when manuvering in combat, unless you want to maintain a straight flight. When I begin to manuver hard in combat, I sometime reset my trim so I can have all the free motion back on the stick and not bust my rotors.

Bingo! Get the trim to a neutral state for your desired flying/attack speed, and then just maneuver as you fly with one of the methods below to interrupt the AP. No need to re-trim unless your flight speed changes or you use constant Flight Director (FD) mode.

 

Here's my thoughts after experimenting and filtering through hundreds of pages of trim discussions:

 

By "maneuvers" I mean NOE flying, rocket/cannon strafing, or evasive tactics where you're flying every direction BUT straight. This is when the AP gets annoying because its trying to take control away from you.

 

I am flying with a non-FFB stick. When maneuvering in combat I use two methods for smooth control...

 

1: Hold the trim button while maneuvering.

This disables the AP temporarily. I also recommend it for any normal flight. If you hold the trim button down while changing directions, it prevents the AP from fighting your inputs. When you release it, the AP will be refocused on your new trim setting/heading. (This works MUCH better than maneuvering first, and then clicking the trim button on/off instantly to set it. Though this does work, it typically results in jerky flight). So, first, click and hold the button while you move.

When you're done with the maneuver (still holding the trim button), return the stick/pedals to neutral and THEN release the button. As long as you return to neutral prior to releasing the button, your trim won't change from the previous setting. Instead, you were temporarily given direct control over the heli while you held down the button. I have the trim button mapped to my throttle stick so I can more easily hold it down and keep a light grip on the stick while maneuvering. :joystick:

 

or...

 

2: Map the FD button to a button on your stick/HOTAS.

Simply enable/disable it as needed to "suspend" the AP. The heli will be more lively and YOU will have to fly it 100%, but the AP can't fight you.

The FD will disable AP and instead will only dampen your inputs for smoother flight. Many here seem to fly only with FD because it feels more direct and natural, but for stand-off combat it requires too much focus, AP and hover hold is the ticket... Anyways, since FD disables AP, use it similarly as #1 above, and you will have smooth control during maneuvers without affecting your trim setting for a given flight speed.

 

(Note: I cannot remember at the moment when FD is switched off, if it resets the AP to follow your new heading if AP has been on the whole time)...

 

If you're hovering or simply flying a route, definitely use AP and trim as necessary to maintain solid hover or smooth flight.

 

you can also try...

3: I will also occasionally switch only AP heading on and off, it creates a similar effect by preventing the heli from auto-steering so I can tell it where to go, turn it back on when I want to stay in a straight line.

 

If anything here is incorrect, please let me know!

Edited September 1, 2009 by wheelhaus

[wheelhaus]

Whoops, double post...

Edited September 2, 2009 by wheelhaus
double post.

[j0nx]

So how does the real machine work? What if you have a real cyclic without a centering spring just like the real machine? I just bought the game yesterday and have yet to even do much with it other than test out my control config so I am not even sure how trim comes into it. It sounds to me like you lose control of the machine when you trim unless you center the stick? That doesn't make any sense to me...

[wheelhaus]

More knowledgable persons can chime in, but this is what I understand of the real machine...

The stick doesn't spring to center, A normal heli allows you to hold the stick in a position to maintain steady flight. This will be different for each flight, pending wind direction and speed, flying weight, airspeed, etc, but you feel THe forces on the stick and pedals, just like the steering wheel in a car. Your actions are based on what you "feel." You can only react to what you see on screen.

 

A force feedback joystick CAN mimic the real thing because the servo motors can put the stick anywhere the software tells it to. It can mimic the different forces, resistance, and vibrations you'd feel in the real thing (I haven't used one yet, but I have used other FFB devices like Logitech's G25 for racing sims (and the jump in realism and control is amazing). FFB a big advantage, but not required to have fun with the sim. The new Logitech G940 will likely be the top retail FFB joystick once its released later this month.

 

With a standard sprung stick, you don't NEED to use the trim, you can simply hold the stick in the desired position but you will be fighting the spring, and that gets annoying. To compensate, ED added the trim feature...

 

The trim basically emulates the desired stick position and allows you to return the stick to center without affecting the heli's current attitude. Any movement thereafter is treated as if the stick were still in the trimmed position. This is why the "trim reset" button is so important, it will return the virtual stick and rudder positions to your joystick's ACTUAL position. I rarely use it, only as a safeguard if my trims get all jackified.

 

Hit Ctrl-Enter and you will see the virtual representation of the major controls, engine throttle, collective, rudder, and stick position. It will help all this trim stuff to make sense. The diamond is the virtual stick position, so you can see what is happening when you click and release trim, stack multiple trims, or don't center the rudder. I can't fly without it.

 

edit-

The trim button interrupts the autopilot, which by itself has only about 20% authority over the total inputs. When you reset the AP (activate and release trim) the AP will recenter its authority around the new stick position, so it can maintain the flight attitude of the heli when the button was released.

Edited September 2, 2009 by wheelhaus

[SuDepp]

........r FFB devices like Logitech's G25 for racing sims (and the jump in realism and control is amazing). FFB a big advantage, but not required to have fun with the sim. The new Logitech G940 will likely be the top retail FFB joystick once its released later this month.

 

...beneath......

Saitek is planning something really "big ґnґ shacky" for simmers like us ;)

Official notes will follow somewhat later this summer (Yes! it means SOON :music_whistling: )

 

Sorry for being offtopic, but these news are too good to keep them secret.....

 

Over and out :pilotfly:

S@uDepp

Edited September 2, 2009 by S@uDepp

[ruprecht]

Saitek is planning something really "big ґnґ shacky" for simmers like us ;)

Official notes will follow somewhat later this summer (Yes! it means SOON :music_whistling: )

 

You mean this? :music_whistling:

 

[wheelhaus]

woah...

[SuDepp]

...looks silly....

Hopefully the style will be another - it looks like a clone between the so called "new" logitech and my very first construction kit :megalol:

 

SAITEK plz donґt fail!

 

Greets

S@uDepp

 

EDIT:

Oooops... there has already been a THREAD about it . Sorry for being offtopic again... Iґm feeling so excited about it....

Edited September 3, 2009 by S@uDepp