missing track file CCIP "Dump Bombs" always hit way too short! Known issue?

[Nedum]

Is the issue with the CCIP "Dump Bombing" known?

Since half a year, all "Dump Bombs" hitting a way too short if I am using the CCIP Mode. How far to short depends slightly on the dive Angle.

The interesting part is, it differs from map to map.

Caucasus: I can hit spot on (Instant Action, Caucasus, Free Flight).

Germany: always 100+ feet too short. (Instant Action, Germany, Training Bomb drop).

[razo+r]

Did you check that your aircraft has good GPS signal and High system accuracy?

But yes, there have been several reports in the past that CCIP has been buggy in the past. Chances are it's not fixed yet.

Edited Sunday at 04:45 PM by razo+r

[Furiz]

It's "Dumb" bombs, referring to no smart electronics like GPS or INS etc...

 

Anyway, 

are you using TGP to lase before drop? it will help with accuracy of CCIP

[razo+r]

23 minutes ago, Furiz said:

It's "Dumb" bombs, referring to no smart electronics like GPS or INS etc...

 

Not sure if your post is in relation to OP or mine, so anyway;

And yet, despite using AGR, INS drift affect(ed) the CCIP solution in the F-18. The chances are it's doing exactly the same in the F-16 are there.

[Furiz]

Its in relation to OP's post.

 

Yeah that's why I think using TGP to lase can help with accuracy.

[RyanR]

CCIP has been dropping short for a while now. I'm not really sure why. Some of the guys find that more time for the INS drift to accumulate affects the amount of error. That seems odd, as CCIP should be independent of INS. 

-Ryan

[Nedum]

3 hours ago, RyanR said:

CCIP has been dropping short for a while now. I'm not really sure why. Some of the guys find that more time for the INS drift to accumulate affects the amount of error. That seems odd, as CCIP should be independent of INS. 

-Ryan

The interesting thing is that the impact point itself is quite precise, regardless of the map.
The only problem is that it ranges from right on target to several hundred meters too short, but >>never<< too far to the right, too long, or too far to the left.
If this were actually due to GPS or INS errors, then the impact point would have to shift depending on the direction from which the target is approached. But the impact zone itself would always be in the same area. And that is not the case!
CCIP already worked when such good INS and GPS did not even exist.
As far as I know, the impact point with CCIP is calculated completely independently of INS and CCIP. 

 

On 10/19/2025 at 6:46 PM, Furiz said:

It's "Dumb" bombs, referring to no smart electronics like GPS or INS etc...

 

Anyway, 

are you using TGP to lase before drop? it will help with accuracy of CCIP

Oh? And I thought dump Bombs are called so, because they have no intelligent systems on board. Never heard that has something to do with how smart the plane is. 

 

On 10/19/2025 at 6:40 PM, razo+r said:

Did you check that your aircraft has good GPS signal and High system accuracy?

But yes, there have been several reports in the past that CCIP has been buggy in the past. Chances are it's not fixed yet.

The question is, why did it work until six months ago and now it doesn't?
Suddenly CCIP is dependent on INS and GPS drift?
I would believe that if the point of impact also shifted depending on the approach direction.
Then, regardless of the direction I'm approaching from, I would have to set all impacts in the same area. So sometimes too short or too long, or too far to the right or left, but the center of impact would have to be close together.
Only then could one assume a dependency on one or both systems.

23 hours ago, Furiz said:

Its in relation to OP's post.

 

Yeah that's why I think using TGP to lase can help with accuracy.

Yes, that can help, but it doesn't explain, why it's always too short and never too long or too far left or right.

Everyone with the F16 and the Germany map can test it. There is NO Track needed.

TOT < 2 minutes!

If we get any relevant INS drift in this short amount of time, we have a bigger problem than CCIP bombs falling always too short.

Edited Monday at 05:13 PM by Nedum

[razo+r]

6 minutes ago, Nedum said:

The question is, why did it work until six months ago and now it doesn't?
Suddenly CCIP is dependent on INS and GPS drift?
I would believe that if the point of impact also shifted depending on the approach direction.
Then, regardless of the direction I'm approaching from, I would have to set all impacts in the same area. So sometimes too short or too long, or too far to the right or left, but the center of impact would have to be close together.
Only then could one assume a dependency on one or both systems.

Half a year ago we got an INS/GPS update for the Viper. Chances are it influenced the CCIP calculations are existing. Perhaps the jets INS altitude is constantly drifting downwards, which could explain why the bombs all fall short, while the lateral drift is ignored. All we can do is supply ED with more tracks of this issue so that they eventually in a few years can fix the issue.

Edited Monday at 05:11 PM by razo+r

[RogueSpecterGaming]

15 minutes ago, Nedum said:

Oh? And I thought dump Bombs are called so, because they have no intelligent systems on board. Never heard that has something to do with how smart the plane is. 

Again, it is not "dump" it is dumb. And it has nothing to do with how smart the jet is but rather how smart the bomb/munition itself is. Any bomb without GPS/INS, or any other type of guidance kit is considered to be dumb. Which is what Furiz said. 

 

Have you tried doing an A-CAL to calibrate the altitude. That could most likely be effected it. But with CCIP the shallower the dive the less accurate it is going to be, plus any wind can effect the accuracy and any slight shift of the jet up/down left/right can effect the accuracy. 

Best to post a track file so we can see what it is happening. I've never had accuracy issues in terms of "hundreds of meters" off in any direction. Maybe a few meters off, but that is within margin of error using CCIP especially with wind. 

I will post a track if you don't. 

[Nedum]

4 minutes ago, razo+r said:

Half a year ago we got an INS/GPS update for the Viper. Chances are it influenced the CCIP calculations are existing. Perhaps the jets INS altitude is constantly drifting downwards, which could explain why the bombs all fall short, while the lateral drift is ignored. All we can do is supply ED with more tracks of this issue so that they eventually in a few years can fix the issue.

So the navigation coordinates would always shift with the flight direction? I don't think that INS and GPS work this way. If so, that would mean, depending on the flight direction, the coordinates would move. Never saw this behavior. If so, then if you fly a circle around an STP, the STP would have to circle too. Na, I don't think that this work this way.

 

[razo+r]

Just now, Nedum said:

So the navigation coordinates would always shift with the flight direction? I don't think that INS and GPS work this way. If so, that would mean, depending on the flight direction, the coordinates would move. Never saw this behavior. If so, then if you fly a circle around an STP, the STP would have to circle too. Na, I don't think that this work this way.

 

No, I mean the altitude, not the lateral displacement. If the jet thinks it's higher than it actually is, the bombs will always fall short.

But again, best is to provide some actual data, some tracks, otherwise this will go nowhere.

[Nedum]

14 minutes ago, RogueSpecterGaming said:

Again, it is not "dump" it is dumb. And it has nothing to do with how smart the jet is but rather how smart the bomb/munition itself is. Any bomb without GPS/INS, or any other type of guidance kit is considered to be dumb. Which is what Furiz said. 

 

Have you tried doing an A-CAL to calibrate the altitude. That could most likely be effected it. But with CCIP the shallower the dive the less accurate it is going to be, plus any wind can effect the accuracy and any slight shift of the jet up/down left/right can effect the accuracy. 

Best to post a track file so we can see what it is happening. I've never had accuracy issues in terms of "hundreds of meters" off in any direction. Maybe a few meters off, but that is within margin of error using CCIP especially with wind. 

I will post a track if you don't. 

Oh, sorry. I meant feet, not meters.

The Jet is hot on the ramp at mission start. I think that mean SALT input shouldn't be needed anymore, but I will test it. Flight time less than 2 minutes. So no A-CAL needed too.

10 minutes ago, razo+r said:

No, I mean the altitude, not the lateral displacement. If the jet thinks it's higher than it actually is, the bombs will always fall short.

But again, best is to provide some actual data, some tracks, otherwise this will go nowhere.

Thank you, that make sense.

Edited Monday at 05:37 PM by Nedum

[Nedum]

I've tested everything again.
F16 + Instant Action + Germany Cold War Map + Bombing Test.
The mission starts with an F16, hot on the ramp.
All systems are ready for takeoff.
No system needs to be touched by the pilot anymore.
Flight time to the target, including taxiing and takeoff, is less than 3 minutes.
Nevertheless, all bombs fall about 100–200 feet short.
When I perform an A-CAL (RALT, WP 3) after takeoff, all bombs hit the target!
Anyone can see that something is completely wrong. Mission temperature 40° C / 104° F, no GPS is active. The Trk file is the mission itself!

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:42 PM by Nedum

[BIGNEWY]

folks please include a track replay when reporting issues, we can check it and let you know if it is a bug or not. 

thank you 

[RogueSpecterGaming]

14 hours ago, Nedum said:

I've tested everything again.
F16 + Instant Action + Germany Cold War Map + Bombing Test.
The mission starts with an F16, hot on the ramp.
All systems are ready for takeoff.
No system needs to be touched by the pilot anymore.
Flight time to the target, including taxiing and takeoff, is less than 3 minutes.
Nevertheless, all bombs fall about 100–200 feet short.
When I perform an A-CAL (RALT, WP 3) after takeoff, all bombs hit the target!
Anyone can see that something is completely wrong. Mission temperature 40° C / 104° F, no GPS is active. The Trk file is the mission itself!

 

 

Did you adjust the altimeter setting appropriately prior to testing? Or did you leave it at 29.92? 

 

But yes, please do include a track file. 

[TheBiggerBass]

Am 20.10.2025 um 19:26 schrieb razo+r:

No, I mean the altitude, not the lateral displacement. If the jet thinks it's higher than it actually is, the bombs will always fall short.

But again, best is to provide some actual data, some tracks, otherwise this will go nowhere.

Which means SALT is (or is based on) QNH rather than on radar altitude (=QFE). A-G attacks at sea should be precise then, correct?

[razo+r]

7 hours ago, TheBiggerBass said:

Which means SALT is (or is based on) QNH rather than on radar altitude (=QFE). A-G attacks at sea should be precise then, correct?

According to Bignewy and the team SALT shouldn't be used at all but AGR, so there is something fishy going on.

And no, it's not accurate over sea level either right now.

[RyanR]

In addition to AGR, the TGP should be involved as well. I recall this issue (bombs falling short) predating the ATP, so that is not likely a culprit. Incidentally, strafing works AOK.

If Bignewy is willing to follow this thread, we should try to be systematic and get some tracks. I'm happy to get some tracks together. Would it make sense to build a quick "test mission" with some targets that we could all try to hit with some predefined parameters? 

-Ryan