New Steam hardware inbound

[72westy]

14 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

The topic was Steam Hardware.  I responded to your comments about the Steam SFF/miniPC machine.  My comments also happen to apply likewise to any other SFF/miniPC.  I and others have said they don't make good gaming machines.

You seem to be fixated on the idea that my comments were about building the best desktop gaming PC.  That's not accurate.  My comments were all supporting detail as to why the (on topic) Steam machine aren't very good gaming PCs.  Other people said the same thing, so I guess everyone who disagrees with you is "off topic".

A discussion involving "building the best gaming PC" (as you now say) would obviously be an entirely different discussion.  My comments here have been completely confined and unquestionably related to the (on topic) SFF machines andwhy they don't make good gaming machines, not "how to build the best gaming PC".  If you can't understand that's a totally different discussion, I'm sorry, but that's not my fault.

(PS, I don't think you can show anywhere in this thread where I described "how to build the best gaming PC".  Pretty sure I haven't said anything like that.)

As to whether the Steam machine is not very good, only Valve knows that. But given the Steamdeck was a success I'd bargain to bet this will be as well.  IGN at least has done a hands-on with it and said that Cyberpunk 2077 ran perfectly playable with RT and FSR at 4K. The main benefits of a steam machine, same a steam deck, is the huge catalog that will run great even with these specs. No consoles will come out with so many ready to play games. And if that machine is a success, we could see even more game (and finally multiplayer games with anti-cheats getting supported).

The other people were wondering as well of the Steam machine (not sure). They were neither agreeing or disagreeing.

[kksnowbear]

It remains that you stated my comments were off topic.  They were not, as the Steam machine is in fact one of those same machines.  My comments were as much about the Steam machine as any other SFF/miniPC (including the one you bought).

All that stuff you just posted doesn't change the fact that they're not very good gaming computers (and some of us don't need Valve to know this).  It simply means Valve is taking advantage of the fact that the overwhelming majority of "gamers" is too underinformed to understand the SFF machines are actually underpowered, scaled down machines with practically zero upgrade potential.

As I said previously, every SFF owner who's been in my shop regretted ever buying/having one.  Every single one of them, to a man (as well as all the console owners) ultimately went with a proper desktop clone PC for gaming.  Not another SFF machine. Not a laptop.  Not a console.

That is a meaningful statistic.

Edited Friday at 03:41 AM by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

9 hours ago, LucShep said:

I'm not going to skim through two pages of posts, most of it filled with misunderstood back and forth posts.

What I'll say is this: We're witnessing something important here - potentially a new branch in PC gaming. This will have repercussions.

What Valve is showing isn’t a cheap solution for simmers or hardcore users. It’s a way to democratize PC gaming for the mainstream: people who lack the money or time to learn, build and maintain a gaming PC, but still want full guaranteed compatibility and proper support. Valve did all the research; they have the money and the means.

Most of us here aren’t the target audience. This is aimed at laymen who just want to get into PC gaming, buy games on Steam and play them, whether alone or with others, without worrying about hardware, drivers, BIOS tweaks and updates, OS, conflicts, or troubleshooting. Some of them will eventually grow into enthusiasts later.

If the rumored price for the Steam Machine ($800 to $1000) is accurate, it’ll be hard to match the same hardware, pre-built, fully tuned, ready-to-go, and backed by 24/7 support.
And pairing that with a highly optimized Linux-based OS (SteamOS) makes this not only competition for consoles, but a direct challenge to Windows.

I can already imagine more advanced users installing Linux distros on it (like Bazzite, Nobara, Pop!_OS, etc), running far lighter than Windows ever would, turning the machine into a lightweight, fully capable daily-use PC that still games well.
Meanwhile, SteamOS improvements (drivers, kernel, Vulkan), thanks to the involvement of major players like AMD, Nvidia, and Valve, will spill over into the wider Linux ecosystem, benefiting everyone.

At a time when PC hardware and game development feel stale, overpriced, and overly complex - consoles aren’t doing great either - and when younger generations love tech but hate technicalities, this fits perfectly. 
This might end up being even more important than many already expect.

The biggest impact won’t be the hardware itself - it will be:

1. The normalization of pre-built Linux gaming PCs.
This alone forces Microsoft to react, and also pushes OEMs to start taking Linux seriously.

2. The massive refinement SteamOS will bring to Linux gaming.
And as mentioned, all other distros benefit from that work - drivers, kernel, Vulkan, etc.

3. The existence of official support + console-like stability in a PC form factor.
This directly addresses the exact problem that the average user doesn’t want to deal with.

4. A “Steam Deck ×100” effect.
The Deck already shook the industry. A full Steam Machine will do it even more.
 

8 hours ago, diego999 said:

 

Spot on. This is what I thought when I heard the news.

Cheap PC gaming with full Steam support and all the console advantages.

Looks promising but it all depends on the price.
 

Yes, a “PC console” designed for the massive audience that wants PC gaming without the complexity of PC gaming.
The idea is brilliant, IMO.
The price is really what will determine whether it becomes an overnight massive hit or sees slower adoption than antecipated.

Either way, I think the Steam Machine will find its audience. 
It will do very well for casual gamers who are interested in PC gaming but feel intimidated by the whole environment - and that’s the key to its success.

The Deck can already run modern AAA games at 1280×800. Multiply that performance (6x faster, so they say) and casual gamers will be more than satisfied.

Steam’s catalog is the real weapon here, we’re talking about twenty years of (thousands of) games - the largest, cheapest, and most accessible library in gaming history.
Putting that into a plug-and-play box is a huge deal.

There’s a huge number of players who already buy games on Steam but feel intimidated by PC hardware, drivers, settings, crashes, troubleshooting, etc.
A fully supported, pre-built PC with SteamOS bridges the gap between consoles (simple) and PCs (flexible).
They want one thing: click play -> game works. A supported, console-like PC solves all that. 
This machine is for them.

Some more details for those that missed it:

 

Edited Friday at 11:23 AM by LucShep
added video

[Goetsch]

The device is essentially a Linux PC running SteamOS

[BIGNEWY]

@kksnowbear @72westy please dont derail the topic, lets keep to the title / subject of the thread. 

Im getting reports from others the thread is being derailed and I dont want to have to moderate here. 

PM me if you want to discuss

thank you 

[Scott-S6]

22 hours ago, 72westy said:

If my Acemagic Tank03 runs DCS without issue the Steam machine will as well.

Based on the limited info we have the steam machine is probably somewhat less powerful than your tank03.

Also how well you consider something runs very much depends on your expectations re framerate, framerate stability, draw distance, resolution, etc. I have something much more powerful and I'd say it runs DCS adequately (not great) at the settings I want (which includes 4 screens in my cockpit in addition to the actual displays).

While it might not be the ideal DCS box, it might well convert some console users to PC, especially given the prices of consoles these days.

Edited Friday at 08:39 AM by Scott-S6

[Aapje]

11 hours ago, LucShep said:

If the rumored price for the Steam Machine ($800 to $1000) is accurate, it’ll be hard to match the same hardware, pre-built, fully tuned, ready-to-go, and backed by 24/7 support.
And pairing that with a highly optimized Linux-based OS (SteamOS) makes this not only competition for consoles, but a direct challenge to Windows.

That may be great competition for pre-builds, but the PS5 is $500, so not sure whether it can compete with those.

People may also be postponing upgrades in general, with the increase in RAM/storage pricing and an increase in layoffs. So it may be launching into a weak consumer market.

Quote

I can already imagine more advanced users installing Linux distros on it (like Bazzite, Nobara, Pop!_OS, etc), running far lighter than Windows ever would, turning the machine into a lightweight, fully capable daily-use PC that still games well.

SteamOS is already a Linux distro. It would be more interesting to me if they make it very easy to install, configure and use the most common applications for normies, like a mail-client, Whatsapp, Netflix, Spotify, etc.

[scommander2]

I am wondering that can Steam Frame VR work alone with PC for DCS? 

[LucShep]

6 hours ago, Aapje said:

SteamOS is already a Linux distro. It would be more interesting to me if they make it very easy to install, configure and use the most common applications for normies, like a mail-client, Whatsapp, Netflix, Spotify, etc.
 

I agree that all this stuff should come pre-installed, but it's just a matter of time now until apps will be jumping to get on Steam OS, now that the Steam Machine is coming out.

Worst case scenario, the Steam Machine will do this like on the Steam Deck.

On the Deck, from desktop mode you install apps that you want through Discover (the app that has a shopping bag icon), which is the "store" to get your apps.
Then, on Steam (change to desktop version if you're in "Big Picture Mode"), on bottom left press "add a game", select "add a non-Steam game", and add an installed app to it. 
Then you can go back to gaming mode if desired and launch your installed app from there. 

Spotify is in there.
Whatsapp is in there.
Kmail or Thunderbird (for mail-client) is in there.

As for streaming services (Netflix, etc), I believe it's still done like this on the Deck:

 

Edited Friday at 08:38 PM by LucShep
added video

[Dragon1-1]

16 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

As I said previously, every SFF owner who's been in my shop regretted ever buying/having one.

Emphasis mine. Do consider that your sample might be a little biased. SFF machine owners who bought one and were perfectly happy (or at least, not unhappy enough to look for an upgrade) with it would've had zero reason to come to your shop. There might be hundreds or thousands of SFF users in the general area who pass by your shop every day without even glancing up from their phones. So unless you also sell the things, that doesn't tell us much.

16 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

It simply means Valve is taking advantage of the fact that the overwhelming majority of "gamers" is too underinformed to understand the SFF machines are actually underpowered, scaled down machines with practically zero upgrade potential.

Or, it means that Valve decided to provide a dead-simple, no frills machine that would be good enough to play most recent titles on default settings on an average household TV (and, perhaps, Valve's VR headset as well). It's a console that plays PC exclusive titles, fits on a living room TV stand, and comes preinstalled with everything it needs. I doubt PC gamers are the target audience here at all - it's for the console crowd. 

It'll never be a monster that you need to run DCS in 4K VR. It doesn't have to be. It has to play PC versions of PS5 titles and other games with equivalent or lower requirements. You could do that with an SFF PC. Those people aren't looking for peak performance or running the FPS race, they're looking to play games that their consoles won't run.

[Scott-S6]

Apparently the steam machine could be as much as $1.2K. That's a lot for what it is 

Edited yesterday at 08:24 AM by Scott-S6

[Dragon1-1]

Yeah, that'd price out most of the aforementioned console crowd. Then again, Valve is probably trying to make money on those machines. That could be a problem, since it's actually quite frequent for consoles to be sold at a loss, which is then more than made up by game sales. One advantage of a console is that it's not particularly expensive and it plugs into a TV you probably already have. Even if this price includes all the peripherals, it's rather steep for a console.

It won't compete with PCs either, not with the performance they listed. A full tower with similar stats is much cheaper than that, and $1.2K will give you an actual gaming rig if you're smart about how you spend the money. Zero reason to use a dingy, overpriced black box.

[kksnowbear]

4 hours ago, Scott-S6 said:

Apparently the steam machine could be as much as $1.2K. That's a lot for what it is 

4 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Yeah, that'd price out most of the aforementioned console crowd...

...Even if this price includes all the peripherals, it's rather steep for a console...

It won't compete with PCs either, not with the performance they listed...

...Zero reason to use a dingy, overpriced black box.

(My edits...though I don't think the sentiment is changed overall)

*Ahem* Sounds somehow familiar.

You betcha  

[kksnowbear]

19 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

I doubt PC gamers are the target audience here at all - it's for the console crowd. 

Oh I agree completely ...somewhat. PC gamers know better (or should).  But this is exactly what I meant.  This is Valve trying to shill a hyped-up console as if it competes with a "real" gaming PC.  And they obviously understand a lot of "gamers" are uninformed enough to believe it's a good idea (to include at least some PC gamers, otherwise the target is reduced to only console gamers, and it seems kinda obvious [to me at least] that ain't what's up lol) Sad part is that at least some PC gamers are misguided enough to fall for it**

(FWIW I do believe that's essentially what I've already said).

Just that, when I explained why the concept is problematic, I get attacked for being "off topic". But then at least two others come along and basically say the same thing I already said: It (likely) ain't worth it.  Unless you're a completely underinformed console gamer, that is.

BTW I get a lot of those in my shop too...once they finally wake up and realize the realities of "little machines trying to act like big ones"

**(If this is strictly about console gamers, then why would they make a point of marketing the fact you can load your own OS? They wouldn't; console gamers could give a flip less about that.  That 'feature' is directed at PC gamers. And that is pretty much proof all by itself that this is, at least in part, targeted toward at least some PC gamers.  And you can bet your behind that Valve understands there are plenty of those who should know better, but will still fall for it. TBH it looks like some already have.)

Edited yesterday at 03:31 PM by kksnowbear

[Dragon1-1]

16 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Just that, when I explained why the concept is problematic, I get attacked for being "off topic". But then at least two others come along and basically say the same thing I already said: It ain't worth it.  Unless you're a completely underinformed console gamer, that is.

The concept is not problematic. The price point is. It's not that it ain't worth "it". It specifically ain't worth $1200. Even a gaming laptop in the same price range has better specs:
https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/alienware-16x-aurora-gaming-laptop/spd/alienware-aurora-ac16251-gaming-laptop

Had this system been competing on price, and been clear about it, it would've been a good way to snag people left in the dust by rising PC hardware costs, as well as console players looking for another console. Trading upgradability for being able to actually afford the thing would have made sense for some people, but at that price point, it basically has no use case. A laptop comes with a screen and a keyboard, can run on battery, runs Windows (and therefore any productivity apps you may want in addition to gaming) and fits on the shelf just as easily. 

I thought they were aiming for PS5 Pro's $750 price bracket. It'd probably have a niche there. At $1200? Good luck. Something tells me that this thing isn't likely to become a big hit, even with people who aren't particularly savvy.

[kksnowbear]

I don't honestly think it's necessary to distinguish its not worth it strictly due to the cost.

It's kinda obvious that if they gave them away, then sure, it's a great option...but then, we've all known someone who, at some point, said "I wouldn't have/use/own a [insert model/brand here] if they gave it to me for free"

Regardless of cost, they're not going to compete with true gaming machines (and cannot, because of the *ahem* real yet unmentionable/off topic limitations).

Even if they're a steal, they're just not going to be great gaming machines, from a technical perspective.

In short, consider what the response would be, here in this forum, if I were to suggest that a [laptop] 3060 and a [laptop] 12700H would make a good DCS machine.  If you've only got a few hundred $, maybe.  But even then don't expect much.  As we all know, most sim forums will have a thread or post somewhere from the Devs, saying basically to avoid laptops; some devs won't support them at all.

(FWIW, my shop will be open when you inevitably realize what all the other SFF owners do Come on in, I'll fix ya up)

Edited yesterday at 05:24 PM by kksnowbear

[Dragon1-1]

2 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

In short, consider what the response would be, here in this forum, if I were to suggest that a [laptop] 3060 and a [laptop] 12700H would make a good DCS machine.

Good DCS machine, no. It ain't that, it was never meant to be that. Good gaming machine that you can take with you? Absolutely. It won't be best of the best, but if you're going to play at 60FPS on a laptop-sized (so Full HD at most) screen, it will do. In vast majority of games, this setup will perform adequately. If the [laptop] 3060 displays 60FPS on a Full HD screen, you will not notice a difference if you substitute a full scale 5090, because your monitor will still be displaying 60FPS and full HD resolution.

Now, if you're sitting in front of a 244FPS capable 4K monitor, that's another story, but if you have that, you probably know you need a proper tower to drive it, these things aren't exactly a casual purchase. 

2 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

Even if they're a steal, they're just not going to be great gaming machines, from a technical perspective.

No, but if they dropped the cost to $800 or $700, it could very well be the best PC gaming machine you're going to get for under $800. From a technical perspective, a PS5 is not a great gaming machine by your standards. And yet, people game a lot on them. Why's that? Probably because the baseline version costs about $500. Go find me a $500 gaming PC that will run Elden Ring on a 4K TV, then compare effort you put into it with going to store and buying a console which will do the exact same thing. 

It all comes down to costs. The average gamer doesn't need a DCS machine because, surprise surprise, they're not playing DCS. Sure, it's nice to rock a 3090 and power through any bad optimization on the devs' part. Do you need it to play, say, Mechwarrior 5, Cyberpunk 2077 or Elden Ring? Not really. In fact, I'm sure they'll all run on Steam Machine, too, though the former two probably won't quite max out the graphics settings. They'll also run, probably much better, on that $1300 Alienware laptop, especially considering that, having an NVIDIA GPU, it'll have DLSS instead of FSR. That is the principal problem Steam Machine is going to face. Everything good you can say about it also applies to a gaming laptop in the same price range, but the reverse isn't true. It's a toy priced like a serious piece of hardware, so it'll find it hard to compete with actual serious pieces of hardware. If it was priced like a toy, there'd be no issue.

Edited yesterday at 06:04 PM by Dragon1-1

[kksnowbear]

Interestingly, you've completely ignored the point I made about why they'd market the 'feature' that you can load your own OS.

Bottom line is that's very telling.  No one who's going to do that will think of this as a gaming machine of any meaningful sort, and no casual/console gamer would ever care.  By the descriptions in this thread, the very point for these casual gamers is so they don't have to do any if that.  Per your own comments, they want plug and play.

The continued insistence that this is only for casual gamers doesn't explain why they'd expend resources to support loading ones own OS.  They simply would not, because it would be extra cost against zero perceived value.  The fact that this is being marketed as a feature of this device tells us, in no uncertain terms, that this is not just aimed at casual gamers; if it were, this feature would not exist.

Knowledgeable enthusiasts know the platform is not up to their needs, and casual gamers will never use that feature. 

It is obvious, then, that this is an attempt to convince a certain group of misguided PC gamers that this machine can compete with a proper gaming computer.

Sadly, it appears some will buy into it.

I'll leave the shop door open, as noted, and they'll be coming by, sooner or later.  A fair amount of the work I do comes from "casual gamers" who are tired of consoles' limitations (or, you know, people who have SFF machines that "suck" - their words - and can't be upgraded).

Edited yesterday at 07:48 PM by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It's a toy priced like a serious piece of hardware

Well, we agree on that.

To be clear, we also agree that some laptops represent a better value for gaming than an SFF machine...I just personally don't recommend "gaming laptops", for many of the same aforementioned reasons. 

The only real exception is as I said earlier: if you have severe space constraints (including need for portability, as with travel).  I bought such a machine to use when I traveled for work - but I knew better than to expect it to perform like its desktop counterpart.

Edited yesterday at 07:50 PM by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

I'm seeing people on other forums already crucifying the device without understanding what it actually is, who it’s for, or what Valve’s strategy looks like.

The reality is very simple: the Steam Machine can either be a massive success or a complete non-event - and the deciding factor is the price.

If Valve launches it around $600 - $700, it becomes a true “PC-console” for mainstream/casual gamers.
Accessible, simple, fully supported, with instant access to the biggest game library in existence (often at unbeatable prices, especially with third-party key sellers like Eneba, Kinguin, etc), and without the complexity or cost of building a PC.
At that price point, it will sell extremely well and dramatically boost SteamOS adoption - which is clearly Valve’s long-term goal.

But if the machine comes in at $1000 - $1200, the story changes completely.
The casual audience disappears, enthusiasts will just build their own rigs, and the Steam Machine becomes “just another prebuilt PC", losing its entire strategic purpose.

The key thing people keep forgetting is this: Valve has no shareholders.
They don’t need to appease anyone. They can afford a long-term plan and sell a ton of units slowly over time.
They can sell hardware at low margins (or even at a loss) to push the ecosystem - and the Steam Deck’s huge success already proved that this strategy works.

So right now, judging the product without knowing the actual price makes no sense.
At $600 - $700 it’s a game changer.
At $1000+ it’s a niche box.

Price is literally the whole story.
 

Edited yesterday at 08:26 PM by LucShep

[kksnowbear]

Knowledgeable enthusiasts can do better for less than $600-700.  It is not a "game changer" at that price point to them, and certainly not at a higher price. (I do agree that it has significant potential to "shake things up", but only in certain limited ways, and it's still not going to change the gaming world on its own).

At $1000+ it's just a joke.

It's not just targeted at casual gamers; if it were, they'd never waste resources to support users loading their own OS.  And any enthusiasts understand all the (very substantial) limitations.

Edited yesterday at 08:40 PM by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

21 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Knowledgeable enthusiasts can do better for less than $600.  It is not a game changer at that point.

Those people are not the target for this product.

Here’s the key point: casual customers - the ones who buy prebuilt systems - outnumber enthusiasts by an order of magnitude.
They don’t want to research parts, compare components, diagnose issues, update BIOS, or ask for help on a forum.
Their priority is convenience, stability, and a big known established brand behind the product.

A good analogy is motorcycles:
I can do basic maintenance on my motorcycle - buy the parts, change the oil and filter, coolant, spark plugs, maybe atempt the clutch or secondary transmission if desperate.
But I’m still part of a single-digit percentage of the entire motorcycle customer base.

Most riders will never do that. They go to the official dealer or workshop, because they want convenience, support, and zero hassle.

It’s the same with PCs.
The same logic applies here.

Laymen don’t care about what enthusiasts can do for $600.
They’re not going to search for your advice, my advice, or anyone else’s.
They look for a large mainstream corporation that offers a plug-and-play product and 24/7 support - the same way Nintendo and Sony sell consoles and games to millions of people who don’t want to tinker.

For the mainstream customer, a “PC-console” with official support and a huge library is appealing - and that’s why this has the potential to be successful.
Not because it beats what enthusiasts can build, but because it targets the millions of people who will never build a PC in the first place.

That’s exactly why this device has the potential to be successful - and yes, a game changer.
Not for us. For them.
 

Edited yesterday at 08:48 PM by LucShep

[kksnowbear]

24 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Those people are not the target for this product.

Really?  Then why would they waste resources on the concept of users loading their own OS?  Who is it you think that's for?

As for all the *other* laypeople, that's exactly what I've said: They're counting on a number of misguided PC gamers - not console/casual gamers, nor enthusiasts, but the throngs of 'in-betweeners' - who will buy into the myth of prebuilt machines' "value".

And that *is* actually off topic.  I'll just say a number of my clients have made the prebuilt mistake, and then come to me to get out of it.  You yourself have acknowledged the problems with prebuilts on this forum at times.  I have a growing collection of prebuilt junk that I mostly use for robbing the few parts worth keeping, maybe a chassis or a power supply I can use as a bench unit.  Some of it I wouldn't sell to anyone.  I usually allow at least something by way of trade in discount for used parts...but I rarely offer much for the likes of an iBuyPower or whatever  

I get that you're excited about what this has the potential to do to the b@stards over at MS.  We *absolutely* agree in that respect.  But that doesn't change the fact that this is largely marketing ploy, selling little machines that wanna be big ones.

Edited yesterday at 09:02 PM by kksnowbear

[LucShep]

17 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Really?  Then why would they waste resources on the concept of users loading their own OS?  Who is it you think that's for?

As for all the *other* laypeople, that's exactly what I've said: They're counting on a number of misguided PC gamers - not console/casual gamers, nor enthusiasts, but the throngs of 'in-betweeners' - who will buy into the myth of prebuilt machines' "value".

And that *is* actually off topic.  I'll just say a number of my clients have made the prebuilt mistake, and then come to me to get out of it.  I have a growing collection of prebuilt junk that I mostly use for robbing the few parts worth keeping, maybe a chassis or a power supply I can use as a bench unit.  Some of it I wouldn't sell to anyone.

You're still merging completely different groups into one bucket, and that’s where your logic breaks.

“Why allow OS installs?”
Because it costs Valve almost nothing and keeps the enthusiast minority happy.
It’s the same reason the Steam Deck allows it, and yet 95% of Deck owners never touched BIOS, GRUB, or drivers.
Flexibility ≠ target audience.
Sony adding “Developer Mode” didn’t mean the PS4 console was marketed to game studios. 

The people who buy terrible prebuilts aren’t “in-betweeners”.
They’re uninformed buyers. They don’t compare value, they don’t know what VRMs or power limits are, and they definitely don’t swing by a boutique PC shop before buying.
They buy whatever looks simple and available - a console, a laptop, or a flashy “gaming tower” from a megastore.

Those are the people a Steam Machine can actually pull away from the garbage-tier prebuilts you’re describing.

And yes, ironically, that benefits small PC shops too - fewer customers burned by trash hardware means fewer people entering the hobby with a bad first experience.

SteamOS is precisely why this product has a shot.
You keep comparing it to Windows prebuilts, but that’s not what Valve is selling.

SteamOS is dramatically simpler than Windows for a gaming-only machine: no drivers to hunt; no telemetry; no popups; no forced updates; no bloat; no “Windows being Windows” moments.

For 99% of mainstream users, SteamOS is less friction than a Windows PC and closer to a console UX. That’s the whole point.

“My clients made bad prebuilt buys”
Of course they did - but that’s still a different demographic.
Your clients are people who 1) know enough to seek help, and 2) are already inside the PC ecosystem.

The mass audience Valve is targeting never ever makes it to your door.
They’re buying a console, or the BestBuy special, or a gaming laptop with a single heatpipe.

That’s the market Valve is trying to intercept.

And that’s why judging this thing as “just another prebuilt PC” is missing the strategic intent entirely.
 

Edited yesterday at 09:06 PM by LucShep

[kksnowbear]

LOL The support effort ain't exactly gonna be free of cost when users start loading their own OS, I can assure you.  That's a real cost. I used to run a national support effort for a major technical outfit, and it amounts to serious overhead.

And I don't "keep" doing anything as regards prebuilts.  I'm pretty sure the last post or two is the first time I said anything about prebuilts.  It just so happens that's *another* bunch of misguided buyers that Valve is counting on, to buy into this "toy priced like a serious piece of hardware" (to borrow a quote).

Edited yesterday at 09:13 PM by kksnowbear