Can someone explain the Auto-Reverse and Reverse Detent slider on the settings page?

[shagrat]

I found the settings page and noted the "Auto-Reverse" checkbox and the "Reverse-Detent" slider.

Only I can't figure out what they actually do and like most of the special settings it's not in the pdf manual.

What does Auto-Reverse checked do?

How does the slider change the reverse-detent?

If I move the green ball and adjust the value to 0.05 (5%) where my physical detent range begins, the white axis marker position moves as soon as I move the axis and it shows a different travel range. Putting 0.10 or more and I am rolling backwards when the physical axis is in idle position, against the detent.

How can I get the f@$&+ng axis adjusted, so it's in idle position in-game while the physical throttle is in idle (in my case at 5%) ?

Can we get a keybind to switch the throttle axis to "reverse thrust" like any other sim does? 

[H60MTI]

This is something people have been trying. Already a few posts about this exact thing. I know I have one. 

[Someone]

1 hour ago, shagrat said:

I found the settings page and noted the "Auto-Reverse" checkbox and the "Reverse-Detent" slider.

Only I can't figure out what they actually do and like most of the special settings it's not in the pdf manual.

What does Auto-Reverse checked do?

How does the slider change the reverse-detent?

If I move the green ball and adjust the value to 0.05 (5%) where my physical detent range begins, the white axis marker position moves as soon as I move the axis and it shows a different travel range. Putting 0.10 or more and I am rolling backwards when the physical axis is in idle position, against the detent.

How can I get the f@$&+ng axis adjusted, so it's in idle position in-game while the physical throttle is in idle (in my case at 5%) ?

Can we get a keybind to switch the throttle axis to "reverse thrust" like any other sim does? 

In the c-130, reverse is not a toggle switch. It’s a range. You want to use it that way to control speed on the ground while taxiing, etc. 

It’s also, in the case of a using your consumer hardware, a death trap. This is because the aircraft can (and will) go into reverse in the air, if your throttles are in that region, and the aircraft is flying below 150 TAS. 

If this occurs, you will die. It will be violent, and you cannot recover in most cases.

There are two reasons why this is different from, say a C-17 deploying reverse thrust in the air:

1) The c-130 props spin the same way, so you get an abrupt yaw moment.

2) And this is the key one: you suddenly lose ALL blown wing lift. Blown wing lift is where airflow from the propellers themselves creates lift over the wing, behind it. This is part of the reason why the c-130 has such a low stall speed. When you point the props the other way, this lift is lost, and you stop flying very quickly.

 

Because of all this, I implemented “Auto reverse”. What it does is: treats your throttle like the real plane when you are on the ground. That is: 0% is full reverse and 100% is takeoff.

But when you are in the air, and you dont want to a) die, and also b) lose 20% of your throttle axis precision for reverse, it rescales to be 0%: flight idle, and 100% takeoff.

This is an option. If you dont want to use it, you can disable auto reverse. This means that your throttles will allow you to go into reverse in flight. You may think you want this, but you almost certainly dont. What will happen is: you will be on short final, youll chop power, intending to go to idle, but instead you’ll go into reverse, and then die.

If you do want to disable auto reverse though, you can use two other keybinds (under the Power Levers section) to enable or disable ground range selectively. This will lock you out of the range when you dont want it. 

My advice is to accept the behavior of auto reverse. You will very quickly adjust to this, and all members of our testing group have come to prefer it.

 

[MAXsenna]

8 minutes ago, Someone said:

You may think you want this, but you almost certainly dont.

Apologies, but I don't think you understand DCS players at all.

But thanks for the explanation. Now we can only wait for the next videos of users trying it. 

Cheers!

[Gambit21]

21 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

Apologies, but I don't think you understand DCS players at all.

But thanks for the explanation. Now we can only wait for the next videos of users trying it. 

Cheers!

There's no "try" really...It's quite easy to use and adapt to.

Just so happens that the programed range matches my Thrustmaster Airbus throttle 'reverse thrust" mark precisely.

My advise is use it as is and give it a chance. You can put small piece of tape on your throttle quadrant as a marker if it helps.

[MAXsenna]

27 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

There's no "try" really...It's quite easy to use and adapt to.

I was actually thinking more about someone putting it in reverse on purpose midflight.

27 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

Just so happens that the programed range matches my Thrustmaster Airbus throttle 'reverse thrust" mark precisely.

Anyways. Are you using two of those so you get four throttles? 

[Swagger897]

4 hours ago, Someone said:

In the c-130, reverse is not a toggle switch. It’s a range. You want to use it that way to control speed on the ground while taxiing, etc. 

It’s also, in the case of a using your consumer hardware, a death trap. This is because the aircraft can (and will) go into reverse in the air, if your throttles are in that region, and the aircraft is flying below 150 TAS. 

If this occurs, you will die. It will be violent, and you cannot recover in most cases.

There are two reasons why this is different from, say a C-17 deploying reverse thrust in the air:

1) The c-130 props spin the same way, so you get an abrupt yaw moment.

2) And this is the key one: you suddenly lose ALL blown wing lift. Blown wing lift is where airflow from the propellers themselves creates lift over the wing, behind it. This is part of the reason why the c-130 has such a low stall speed. When you point the props the other way, this lift is lost, and you stop flying very quickly.

 

Because of all this, I implemented “Auto reverse”. What it does is: treats your throttle like the real plane when you are on the ground. That is: 0% is full reverse and 100% is takeoff.

But when you are in the air, and you dont want to a) die, and also b) lose 20% of your throttle axis precision for reverse, it rescales to be 0%: flight idle, and 100% takeoff.

This is an option. If you dont want to use it, you can disable auto reverse. This means that your throttles will allow you to go into reverse in flight. You may think you want this, but you almost certainly dont. What will happen is: you will be on short final, youll chop power, intending to go to idle, but instead you’ll go into reverse, and then die.

If you do want to disable auto reverse though, you can use two other keybinds (under the Power Levers section) to enable or disable ground range selectively. This will lock you out of the range when you dont want it. 

My advice is to accept the behavior of auto reverse. You will very quickly adjust to this, and all members of our testing group have come to prefer it.

 

So you're expecting most of the consumers who are going to buy this, to have an axis for NWS, a separate axis for rudder, and watching like a hawk their throttles to ensure it's not in the reverse range? I'd say the vast majority, especially DCS users, do not own tillers. The vast majority do not own hardware with physical detents mid-way through the axis for reverse thrust. 

I get this is the first product for this company, but why are you trying to reinvent the wheel and being so hard-faced about basic operating usage of your product? YOU highlighted it in your second sentence, but go off-tangent to describe the throttle lever ranges vs apt workarounds that you knew were going to be faced for those of us with just simple hotas or yoke/throttle/pedal setups. 

[AhSoul]

Sounds like a good reason to finally use my STECS custom detent frames properly, and stick a detent in where the switch to reverse is!

[Kang]

I don't get the mild outrage here.

The system that changes the range does indeed work quite well, and it is specifically useful for the majority of players who do not have a physical detent to work with.
It is optional to allow people who have a throttle to prevent this 'rescaling' so their physical throttle lever corresponds to the setting properly.

[TheBiggerBass]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb AhSoul:

Sounds like a good reason to finally use my STECS custom detent frames properly, and stick a detent in where the switch to reverse is!

Here's what I did with my S-TECS:

 

[TheBiggerBass]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Swagger897:

So you're expecting most of the consumers who are going to buy this, to have an axis for NWS, a separate axis for rudder, and watching like a hawk their throttles to ensure it's not in the reverse range? I'd say the vast majority, especially DCS users, do not own tillers. The vast majority do not own hardware with physical detents mid-way through the axis for reverse thrust. 

As rudder and NWS are somewhow linked the secret is to use modifier keys with the rudder axis. I have rudder mapped to the Z stick axis and NWS mapped to Z stick axis + stick thumb button. You may use any other button or key as a modifier.

[shagrat]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb Gambit21:

There's no "try" really...It's quite easy to use and adapt to.

Just so happens that the programed range matches my Thrustmaster Airbus throttle 'reverse thrust" mark precisely.

My advise is use it as is and give it a chance. You can put small piece of tape on your throttle quadrant as a marker if it helps.

Good for you, unfortunately my physical detent on my Virpil Throttle does NOT match the idle position. So I fight with the levers on the ground to find the "idle" point, or I have to constantly put in parking break when heads down to not start rolling forwards or backwards.

[shagrat]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Someone:

In the c-130, reverse is not a toggle switch. It’s a range. You want to use it that way to control speed on the ground while taxiing, etc. 

It’s also, in the case of a using your consumer hardware, a death trap. This is because the aircraft can (and will) go into reverse in the air, if your throttles are in that region, and the aircraft is flying below 150 TAS. 

If this occurs, you will die. It will be violent, and you cannot recover in most cases.

There are two reasons why this is different from, say a C-17 deploying reverse thrust in the air:

1) The c-130 props spin the same way, so you get an abrupt yaw moment.

2) And this is the key one: you suddenly lose ALL blown wing lift. Blown wing lift is where airflow from the propellers themselves creates lift over the wing, behind it. This is part of the reason why the c-130 has such a low stall speed. When you point the props the other way, this lift is lost, and you stop flying very quickly.

 

Because of all this, I implemented “Auto reverse”. What it does is: treats your throttle like the real plane when you are on the ground. That is: 0% is full reverse and 100% is takeoff.

But when you are in the air, and you dont want to a) die, and also b) lose 20% of your throttle axis precision for reverse, it rescales to be 0%: flight idle, and 100% takeoff.

This is an option. If you dont want to use it, you can disable auto reverse. This means that your throttles will allow you to go into reverse in flight. You may think you want this, but you almost certainly dont. What will happen is: you will be on short final, youll chop power, intending to go to idle, but instead you’ll go into reverse, and then die.

If you do want to disable auto reverse though, you can use two other keybinds (under the Power Levers section) to enable or disable ground range selectively. This will lock you out of the range when you dont want it. 

My advice is to accept the behavior of auto reverse. You will very quickly adjust to this, and all members of our testing group have come to prefer it.

 

Ok, thanks so far. That's the "Auto reverse".

Now, what does the slider for the reverser axis do?

Why is my throttle position indicator (white "box") changing travel when I adjust the green ball?

Am I correct if I assume the 0.05 value would put the Idle Detent at 5% of the axis travel and the 0-5% of the physical axis is used for the reverse range of the in-game axis? If so, why do I still end up in reverse when in the physical idle detent position at 5% ?

It seems after adjusting the detent slider the throttle travel range changes, again?!

Please, can we have an optional keybind that allows to use 0-100% forward thrust, if in idle (0-5% axis) press and hold "reverse" and then use the same axis 0-100% for reverse, and if we go back to idle, release the reverse button, we are back to forward thrust?

That's how it works in all civilian sims I had my hands on and it's pretty intuitive, without compromising on the fine adjustment on the reverse range axis.

Edited 11 hours ago by shagrat