theGozr Posted September 9, 2009 Author Posted September 9, 2009 Thank you Mark i will see what Eco has to say about the product as well when the tweaks will be done.. Also we are use to deal with the real aircraft controls in real life.. I hope you will take the suggestions well.. If you need any help lets us know Fly it like you stole it..
Bucic Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Axis play again? Are all contemporary joystick manufacturers hiring former tampon designers? F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
TX-EcoDragon Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) To make my MSFFB2 work properly in FSX, I check control surfaces and ground surfaces...and uncheck stick shaker, crashes and retractable landing gear. I fly helos a lot and have to do it this way, or i get a 'stiff' resistance. Also, if you find you are getting that 'stiff' default feedback in game, you can go to options, and disable all feedback...load into the game, and reenter options and enable those two forces and it should work properly....like turning it off and on again i think. Try that, it may solve some of your issues...if it does or doesn't I'd like to hear about it, because I am thinking of getting a G940! I gave that a try and observed no changes to the previous behaviors. Enabling "Control Surfaces" makes it nearly impossible to fly fixed wing aircraft. I could perhaps turn down the forces and crank up the centering spring and perhaps that could work. . .but at this point I think I'm going to go back to the wait and see camp and put that 325 bucks into a couple Pitts flights. . .talk about great force feedback!! Hopefully I'll hear from other users that these issues don't happen on their sample, and can revisit the stick again later on down the road. Axis play again? Are all contemporary joystick manufacturers hiring former tampon designers? It's not the axis - the stick responses are exceptionally precise. . .it's the FFB deadzones that ruins the precision. Edited September 9, 2009 by TX-EcoDragon S! TX-EcoDragon
Bucic Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 It's not the axis - the stick responses are exceptionally precise. . .it's the FFB deadzones that ruins the precision on mine. Oh, sorry. I read only few posts. But the situation on the market is a mockery. Be it new Saitek Cyborg X with it's 20% axis play or stock Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar. F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
-Bazong- Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Very disapointing :( I had hoped this would be just the thing to replace my 6 year old msFFB2 and ms racing pedals. I really hope the "centerplay around the trim position issue" gets resolved (it's nowhere near that much on my msFFB2 I think), as for now I'll be looking for a fresh (or slightly used) msFFB2.. I'm quoting myself, what does that mean? :P But seriously, I was too quick to judge and just wanted to clear my consious(sp?) by saying that I very much appreciate the intention of this product and the comunication from Logitech_Mark. I very much hope the forcefeedbacks centerplay (I understand the axes have no centerplay and that the stick has very precise contact-less sensors (Hall effect sensors??)) can be adjusted to a minimum. Eagerly waiting for a thurough review of the HOTAS in use with DCS:BS. :)
Logitech_Mark Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Neoqb does have a unit, as well as communication with our software team. Flight System G940 Product Manager Logitech
theGozr Posted September 9, 2009 Author Posted September 9, 2009 Eco and I are Beta tester/Consultant for Neoqb as well. ;) PS: I also see that we are close neighbor :) Fly it like you stole it..
emenance Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Get to work, gents! I would really like to get away from the x52. But, I think the x52 is a great stick and many hear have made it better esp for Lock on. However I think the software is trash and I also think Saitek likes to confuse and torment even the smart ones with driver changes and profile changes. To this day It still isnt stated on thier main pages the simple changes that took place with the profiles. OK I need to stop before I really get to company bashing but damn how many games in the world are using the x52. Thats just really some bad support!!! OK :( For BS The x52 can even be fitted with a collective. I would have liked to see something done for this 940...... I would like to attach a stick to this throttle is I enjoy and get more into BS. I have to agree with the others that the centering detent being gone sounds lame brained and dum. Why must gamers get a great feature in something then later miss it in evolving tech changes? This happens too much!!! Again, you guys can make it all sound like solid gold. A product like the 940 has to carry the water and be everything we like and more or its just another failure. Asus P8Z68-V GEN3/ 2500k 4.4ghz / Corsair 64gb SSD Cache / Corsair 8g 1600 ddr3 / 2 x 320gb RE3 Raid 0 /Corsair 950w/ Zotac 560TI AMP 1gb / Zalman GS1200 case /G940/
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 if you guys are willing to mod you new toy, mouser sells.. a pot with a center detent.. part no beginning 313-2000F- im incorporating on into my suncom split throttle... find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
theGozr Posted September 10, 2009 Author Posted September 10, 2009 Emenance Something is not too good in the X52 is the two throttle rotary buttons, The X45 has better ones ( Bigger easier to handle ).. But..... Fly it like you stole it..
Bucic Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) To this day It still isnt stated on thier main pages the simple changes that took place with the profiles. Here's my topic on lack of driver version indication http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=16933 :huh: Edited September 10, 2009 by Bucic F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 if you guys are willing to mod you new toy, mouser sells.. a pot with a center detent.. part no beginning 313-2000F- i hear alot of people complaining about this trim controls not having no detent... MARK..here is an Easter Egg! (Alpha Taiwan P/N 313-2000F) ...maybe i can get a free G940 out of this... =) (wink) find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I don't really get why so many people complain about the detent, IMHO this would lessen precision because if you want to set the trim to a point that is slightly off the detent, you can't because the pot will always slide into the detent position. Now i don't know how trimming works in LO, but doesn't one normally just turn on the wheel until the plane flies as supposed? Where's the need to know the wheels position in flight? Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) I don't really get why so many people complain about the detent, IMHO this would lessen precision because if you want to set the trim to a point that is slightly off the detent, you can't because the pot will always slide into the detent position. Now i don't know how trimming works in LO, but doesn't one normally just turn on the wheel until the plane flies as supposed? Where's the need to know the wheels position in flight? do you own a g940? ask the people that do own one.. i have used the pots that have the detent, dosent affect the pot at all... it comes in handy because it allows me to feel out a transition between +/- or increase/decrease. Edited September 10, 2009 by hannibal find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 it comes in handy because it allows me to feel out a transition between +/- or increase/decrease. I don't get what you're trying to tell me, sorry :huh: Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 I don't get what you're trying to tell me, sorry :huh: it time, you will... google.com find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 PFFFFFFT Dude, i read your post 3 times, but what's a transition between +/- supposed to be, that it justifies adding a detent? You need the detent to be able to tell whether you're increasing or decreasing? As far as i'm concerned, you're not making any sense, and all the google.com in the world can't change that ;) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
CyBerkut Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 sobek, I believe he is saying that he finds it helpful to know whether he is on the upper or lower half of the pot's travel... and to know when it is transitioning from one to the other. I believe he is also saying that the detent doesn't cause him problems with setting the trim slightly off of the detent's position. FWIW, I have to say my experiences have been the same. I think detents at the halfway point in the rotation are useful, for pots that have a lot of "travel". I think for a pot with a limited arc of travel, such as 90 degrees, I would prefer to not have a center detent. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] There's no place like 127.0.0.1
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 sobek, I believe he is saying that he finds it helpful to know whether he is on the upper or lower half of the pot's travel... and to know when it is transitioning from one to the other. I believe he is also saying that the detent doesn't cause him problems with setting the trim slightly off of the detent's position. FWIW, I have to say my experiences have been the same. I think detents at the halfway point in the rotation are useful, for pots that have a lot of "travel". I think for a pot with a limited arc of travel, such as 90 degrees, I would prefer to not have a center detent. Fair enough. However, if i use the pot for trimming, i can see what the A/C is doing and therefore can adjust the pot according to that, so i see no need for a detent, just my 2 cents. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
hannibal Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Fair enough. However, if i use the pot for trimming, i can see what the A/C is doing and therefore can adjust the pot according to that, so i see no need for a detent, just my 2 cents. up to you brother... but if i want to trim, its like i would like to add positive trim or negative trim.. sometimes in some sims, you have to wait a couple of moments to allow the aircraft to stabilize... during this time, you dont want to second guess if you increased or decreased trim... lets say if it weren't pots.. put buttons for example, given that your plane is going up, you want to trim down... obvious you will want to hit the down key, not up.. in the case of the 'no center' detent.. do u know i you applying up or down trim? if the plane response fast to trim, then u might not need this detent to tell u if you applying up or down trim.. but if u have a slow to respond plane, like a dc10 or even 747.. u might be spending sometime to figure out if you applied up or down trim without a detent... get it? friends now? owe yea... if i going to pay 300$ for a controller... GIVE ME THIS FEATURE! find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 in the case of the 'no center' detent.. do u know i you applying up or down trim? Yeah sure, by the direction which i turn the pot in!? If i want to trim up, i turn it back, if down i turn forward. Do you intent to use the wheels like digital +/- controls? Then i see the need for a detent, although i don't know why you would want to trim like that. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
blaster454 Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Could it be that one of you is talking about an axis assignment where the direction of travel determines the trim being applied and the other is talking about a "banded" or "zoned" approach where a control with travel (like the rotary trims) applies positive trim on one end and negative trim on the other end (of the control's travel)? The difference would be between using an analog axis and using digital buttons for up/down trim or left/right trim. WH_Blaster (Larry) :beer: US Air Force (Retired, 1961-1981) Join us for fun with the DCS series and other games at the War Hawks Squad website ... we are a mature gaming group that enjoys realism and having fun! http://war-hawks.net System: i7=950 @ 3.3 GHz, GA-X58-UDR3 MB, 6GB RAM, GTX770, 256GB system SSD, 128GB gaming SSD, TIR5, TM HOTAS WH, HannsG 28-in, Acer 23-in touch screen.
TX-EcoDragon Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 (edited) I don't really get why so many people complain about the detent, IMHO this would lessen precision because if you want to set the trim to a point that is slightly off the detent, you can't because the pot will always slide into the detent position. Now i don't know how trimming works in LO, but doesn't one normally just turn on the wheel until the plane flies as supposed? Where's the need to know the wheels position in flight? I agree. In general the detents ruin the precision of the wheels near the detent - especially in more realistic sims. Most real aircraft have a visual indicator of the takeoff position of the trim, and they do NOT have detents. After visually aligning the trim with a marker point subsequent adjustments are all made based on need for proper performance/feel. The reason I never both using my X-45 rotaries for trim in most sims is the detents make realistic trimming impossible near the center point of the knob's rotation. Of course some people are using the rotary as a banded axis where true precise control is not a factor, but for any realistic sim, using a rotary like that of the X-45 pretty much ensures a range of trim positions, and therefore flying speed where the aircraft can not be precisely trimmed. . .so for example, if you're flying IFR procedures that's going to suck etc. Not having a detent does mean that simmers would have to visually check trim wheel position before takeoff. . .which would be a realistic thing to have to do. On the G940 I only had one wheel which required any effort to see, and that the one in front of the throttles. As far as I'm concerned the rotaries on the G940 were something they got right. Of course people will have different views on this so the ideal solution is to have it adjustable so that the detent can be used or disabled without major mods needing to be done. . .there's no reason we should have to go with only one vs the other. Edited September 11, 2009 by TX-EcoDragon 2 S! TX-EcoDragon
sobek Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Could it be that one of you is talking about an axis assignment where the direction of travel determines the trim being applied and the other is talking about a "banded" or "zoned" approach where a control with travel (like the rotary trims) applies positive trim on one end and negative trim on the other end (of the control's travel)? Yes. ;) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
-Bazong- Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 *In lockon and DCS; when you trim with FFB the stick moves (like IRL), you feel your trim input by the pressure on the stick. *In IL-2 (for example); when you trim with FFB the stick does'nt move (unlike IRL), we all know how this works I thinks.. I think in the former example it's nicer without detents, and in the latter it's nicer with detents.. Anyway, are there any news regarding if the FFB's centerplay (NOT axis centerplay) can be minimized?
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