Pilotasso Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 No English sources yet. Only in Portuguese: http://www.areamilitar.net/noticias/noticias.aspx?NrNot=814 After rejecting the Su-35 the Gripen and F-18E the brazilians settle for the Rafale after techcology transfer for brazilian industry. US would impose restrictions on armament, Gripen too small for the country and russian hardware logistics nightmare praticaly singled out the Rafale. It didnt so sooner due to politics pressure. 36 planes for first order with options for more. IMHO the wisest choice. Congrats Brazil. :) .
topol-m Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 English sources post number 8: ;) http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=44948 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
joey45 Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 US would impose restrictions on armament bet they wouldn't of said that if they would of won.. The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45
Pilotasso Posted September 9, 2009 Author Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) US never fully trusted on Brazil neither brazil plays ball with US too much. Even if the US granted the sale of the AMRAAM (and other munitions) it would only be shiped over to brazil in case of "need" (read war) and then it would be on US criteria. Neither did US granted much on the tech transfer. These have been restrictions imposed by the US goverment. They tried to "sweeten" up the deal when they realized the french were being preferred but too late now. Edited September 9, 2009 by Pilotasso .
topol-m Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Even if the US granted the sale of the AMRAAM (and other munitions) it would only be shiped over to brazil in case of "need" (read war) and then it would be on US criteria. Hahaha is this for real? :laugh: I can imagine the answer to these conditions: "Stick up your AMRAAMs where the sun doesn`t shine. We are taking the Rafales". :laugh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted September 9, 2009 Author Posted September 9, 2009 Yup. Politics interfeered alot on boeings offer. It remains to be seen if meteor will be an option. .
theGozr Posted September 9, 2009 Posted September 9, 2009 Superbe! The Rafale is a fantastic aircraft. Fly it like you stole it..
4c Hajduk Veljko Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Smart move from Brazil. Thermaltake Kandalf LCS | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R | Etasis ET750 (850W Max) | i7-920 OC to 4.0 GHz | Gigabyte HD5850 | OCZ Gold 6GB DDR3 2000 | 2 X 30GB OCZ Vertex SSD in RAID 0 | ASUS VW266H 25.5" | LG Blue Ray 10X burner | TIR 5 | Saitek X-52 Pro | Logitech G930 | Saitek Pro flight rudder pedals | Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit
Wilde Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hahaha is this for real? Yeah, but that's nothing new really. US is doing the same with Greece. They sold them them missiles but Greece has to ask for their permission if they want to use them. The reasons are purely political. Brazil not being a NATO member could tell them to F off more easily than Greece though.
Itkovian Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Nice to see Dassault getting some good exports. Excellent news. Itkovian
gigz-on Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hey guys! "Brazil's plan to buy French fighter jets hits turbulence" http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jC9Pt66Ns4wKk0d4fQ891K_4-zrw My YouTube Channel:
topol-m Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 Hey guys! "Brazil's plan to buy French fighter jets hits turbulence" http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jC9Pt66Ns4wKk0d4fQ891K_4-zrw Lol :doh: Go Saab! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
jpm1 Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 that's the problem with military planes until the plane wheel did not touch the contractor country runway it's never sure . however even if Brazil retracts they'll probably purchase other stuff and they already purchased subs as said in the article . but Lula has to turn towards Europe if it doesn't want to be too much dependant from the US . i think Rafale wasn't a bad choice Gripen too small , F-16/F-18 less modern than Rafale and lesser range , SU-35 would have been a good choice too but it may have been a no confidence signal towards the US too . the Rafale is a good ground attack plane which is important for such country that can face guerillas wars one day , it has a good range (three times F-16/F-18 and twice the Gripen) and can be carrier-based (CV Sao Paulo) SU-25 missions [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
nscode Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 This wouldn't be the first time someone using French aviation industry just to gain some good relations, but then going other way when deal is to be signed. You might know the story that is circulating the net, about how Yugoslav airforce was more pleased with Mirage, but in the end bought MiG-29, only becouse it could be payed for by some debt etc. I've recently found out from people who were part of the review comittiee that while the debt part is true, the part about Mirage being more favorable was only being slipped under the door mat to the French, since they were a major partner in the Novi Avion project. :) The story somehow got out, and now has a life of its own on the Internet :) Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
Wilde Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 SU-35 would have been a good choice too but it may have been a no confidence signal towards the US too I doubt the Brazilians care much about that. The Russians are out of contention, because they were not interested in ToT according to the Brazilian Air Force Commander Saito. ( link )
Pilotasso Posted September 12, 2009 Author Posted September 12, 2009 I still think the rafale will win. Doesnt mean the Hornet is an inferior plane but it has export limitations the Rafale doesnt. .
jpm1 Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 I doubt the Brazilians care much about that. The Russians are out of contention, because they were not interested in ToT according to the Brazilian Air Force Commander Saito. ( link ) the SU-35 didn't enter service , declining the F-18 offer for the Sukhoï would mean a clear no to the US maybe to clear . buying a prototype (non-in service yet) could be translated by part of the population as a bit hasardous behaviour from the highest country politian too , don't know SU-25 missions [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Sokol1_br Posted September 16, 2009 Posted September 16, 2009 "Le Brésil n'est pas um pays sérieux". Indeed, the competition for new fighter for Brazilian Air Force (FX-project) is not finished. The final decision is for October, the Air Force has not expressed his technical advice, and Boeing and Saab can make new proposal. Our president "put the chariot ahead the horses", and expressed his personal preference during Sakozy visit, causing embarrassment in the management of the competition. Our Air force Minister try resign, and was kept in office. But is probable that in the end Rafale win. Here, the politicians prevail, and everything end in "pizza". :cry: Well, less bad... what worth have Super Hornet's and having to ask permission to Uncle Sam if us need to use a missile... Sokol1_Br (from Brazil)
nscode Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 wrong topic? :D Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us.
CoNa Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 Seems Gripen has a chanse after all. http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4443442&c=AME&s=AIR Brazil's government will decide which company is awarded a $7 billion contract for 36 high-tech fighter jets, a minister said Jan. 6, after the Brazilian Air Force backed a different supplier. "The final decision is still political," Foreign Minister Celso Amorim said in Geneva. "Obviously we will study [and] take into account what is in the [technical] reports" but "it's for the minister of defense and the president of the republic [Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva] to decide," he told journalists. "It's not an exclusively military decision," he added. A Jan. 5 newspaper report said the Brazilian Air Force's first choice was the NG Gripen by Sweden's Saab, and not the government's pick, the French Rafale. It reported that the French jet was not even the Air Force's second choice. The runner-up was the F/A-18 Super Hornet by Boeing. The Rafale, a multirole fighter made by Dassault, has been considered the frontrunner since the Brazilian president and French counterpart Nicolas Sarkozy announced jointly in September that Brazil was negotiating to buy the delta-winged aircraft. If that intent to purchase was confirmed, it would be the first export sale of the Rafale, possibly making it more attractive to other potential buyers Switzerland and India. But Saab and Boeing are fighting fiercely to land the Brazilian contract, reportedly slashing prices to do so.
Pilotasso Posted January 6, 2010 Author Posted January 6, 2010 But the president is acting like a spoiled child and wants Rafale at all costs. LOL lets see how this brazialian novel ends. They are very imaginative :D .
Lucas_From_Hell Posted January 6, 2010 Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) As a good Brazillian, I would be inclined to counter your argument just to mantain the friendly 'rivalry' between Brazil and Portugal, but now I just have to agree with you... But is a tough one. We're talking about Gripen NG, still in development and, as such, great for technology transfer, F/A-18E, in the next block, already with some features from the F-22, and the Rafale. Carrier compatibility in this case doesn't matter AT ALL, as the Foch/São Paulo's deck is just too small. Even if the Hornet managed to take-off, it would be with some strong fuel and armament restrictions. At this moment, I think they all have good chances. For the one who mentioned good A2G capability, useful for anti-guerilla, forget it. We already have our A-29 for kickin' some ass in this area. At least for this batch, the Air Force is looking for a good multi-role fighter, but with priority to the Air-to-Air capabilities, given to the fact it will replace the Mirage 2000C of the 1st Air Defence Group. I hope politics don't screw this one up. EDIT: ...but with the technical report (it's one of those "leaked" information, I won't trust this one 100%) putting Gripen NG (bold so you remember it's not the same as the A or C, but a new aircraft) in first and Rafale in last place, it's hard to believe they'll invert the ranking. Edited January 6, 2010 by Lucas_From_Hell
Pilotasso Posted January 6, 2010 Author Posted January 6, 2010 Actualy the rafale first flew in service aboard that same carrier. .
Lucas_From_Hell Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, but if we get the Rafale, it will be C model, and not the M. To the Rafale to take-off from Foch, they had to adapt and modify the carrier to extend the deck a bit, and this to make a unarmed plane take-off! Even if we go for M later, it won't be able to carry much ordenance or fuel, so it's not really useful.
JaNk0 Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 That's funny. I read yesteraday in swedish internet newspaper that the Gripen was in advantage O.o ... Oh well, congrats to Rafale :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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