lock to target limitation??

[wolf_288]

Hi

It´s there any limitation how to use lock on target???

[My Fing ID]

If you're asking what I think you're asking, the only limitation I know of is you have to be able to see the target. If it's too dark you won't get a lock, but you can still laze/guide weapons on target.

[Frederf]

Limitations are visibility, range, and if the Shkval gates are too big. For some reason there is no minimum size Shkval gate. In real life I think matching the gate to the target gives the computer the best chance of recognizing it but not in DCS.

[Feuerfalke]

Maybe you ran into the laser-burnout problem?

 

The laser overheats pretty easily and it is designed to be replaced after a few missions. After lasing a target you see a countdown in the HUD - this is the cooldown-time. If you are going to rearm for a long mission, it is highly recommendable to use the laser rarely and take care of these pauses.

 

Of course you can also save laser-time by only switching the laser on, when you really need it or by using the SHKVAL-sensor without measuring distances, while you are in transit.

[EtherealN]

Aye, unless I'm on a mission where I know the designer is a particularly sneaky one I don't even have my laser on standby unless I'm fairly certain that the target I'm looking at is near my engagement range. No point measuring the distance to something that you can see is too far away anyhow - and let's remember that any laser warning receiver in the direction of the target will be going off like crazy if you start ranging it unecessarily. So combine keeping the health of your laser equipment with EMCON. :)

[Flori]

I´ve learned from Viper that the laser can´t overheat, he has only simulated limitations.

 

Let me quote him:

 

Warum arbeitet der Laser-Entfernungsmesser (Laser-Rangefinder) nach einiger Zeit nicht mehr

bzw. er arbeitet scheinbar, aber die Raketen treffen nicht mehr ihr Ziel. Ist er überhitzt?

 

NEIN! Es ist eine Eigenschaft des Laserragefinders, die aus dem Original

so simuliert wird.

Die Betriebszeit des Laser-Ragefinders sollte 20 Minuten am Stück nicht überschreiten.

Also, immer zwischendurch abschalten.

 

The laser rangefinder has limitations: 5 series with intervals of 30 minutes;

16 cycles of 10 seconds with intervals of 5 seconds in each serie.

You may be not following these rules in your flights

(and make more range counts than it is possible)

and this will result in not working rangefinder.

Not a bug but a feature.

[EtherealN]

Might help with a link to the source you are quoting, and a translation of the german in there. I do speak passable german (but not anywhere near fluent) but not everyone here does. ;)

 

I'll try it:

 

Q: Why does the laser range finder sometimes stop working? It seems to work, but the missiles stop hitting their targets. Is it overheated?

A: NO! That is a property of the rangefinders, simulater as per the real thing. The working time of the range finders need to not exceed 20 minutes at a time. Also, always turn it off between uses.

 

I think that's close enough? Though I'm not entirely sure that it's a correct interpretation. For example, it's not the rangefinder specifically that guides the missile - it's a laser grid that does that (since it's a beam-rider).

Edited December 2, 2009 by EtherealN

[Feuerfalke]

Yes, that is a very good translation.

 

IMHO the main difference between overheat and duration is the fact that "overheat" suggest that cooling it down can solve the problem. :)

 

But anyway: Use your laser wisely when going on a long mission.

[Tango]

Dosen't the laser only fire when looking at distances or otherwise locking up a target?

 

If you reset the Shkval, doesn't this also switch off the laser, without resorting to the master sw?

 

Best regards,

Tango.

[Frederf]

Correct you cannot use the laser with the Shkval caged but some people just like to have that extra bit of safety and as well use the Shkval without worrying about activating the laser.

[sweinhart3]

If your not trying to lock targets or range designated points over the usage guidlines, I was under the impression you could fly all you want with the laser in standby mode without damaging it. Is this not true? I havent really ever had issue with it besides once cause I dont range targets often outside of a Vhiker launch or initial target point for guns.

[Frederf]

You are correct.

[EtherealN]

Entirely correct sweinhart.

 

I personally set it to off to avoid unecessary ranging when I'm not engaging nything - for example if I'm flying merrily along and see something in the distance and want to inspect it. If the laser was on standby I'd end up rangning "accidentally" when I ground stabilize the view. Through flying with it off I can stabilize and pan around as much as I like (and I like that a lot :P ) and won't end taxing the laser. All of that is personal preference there, though.

[Frederf]

On a somewhat related note, do AI forces detect your laser emissions?

[InFireBaptize]

isn't the only way to use laser-rangefinder through Gun sight target mode?

[Frederf]

Hardly, the rangefinder is for the Shkval primarily.

[InFireBaptize]

If your not trying to lock targets or range designated points over the usage guidlines, I was under the impression you could fly all you want with the laser in standby mode without damaging it. Is this not true? I havent really ever had issue with it besides once cause I dont range targets often outside of a Vhiker launch or initial target point for guns.

 

Hi, so if i don't have a target locked in shkval my laser is not engaged!

I don't understand "range designated points"? does it mean when you look for target in shkval? few times i was unable to have a lock on target, how would i know that my laser is burned?

 

Thanks.

 

Update (more questions): if rockets are unguided then why do i need to use laser range finder as per manual (11-27)?

When is laser rangefinder involved/used?

Edited December 8, 2009 by InFireBaptize

[miguez]

On a somewhat related note, do AI forces detect your laser emissions?

 

Enemy helos do. As soon as you range them, they take evasive action.

[Frederf]

Hi, so if i don't have a target locked in shkval my laser is not engaged!

I don't understand "range designated points"? does it mean when you look for target in shkval? few times i was unable to have a lock on target, how would i know that my laser is burned?

 

Thanks.

 

Update (more questions): if rockets are unguided then why do i need to use laser range finder as per manual (11-27)?

When is laser rangefinder involved/used?

 

The rangefinder laser doesn't really fire except very briefly (0.5 sec? It's like a photograph, it's not really "on" like the oven) every time a rangerfinder taking is commanded. The only time a rangefinder taking is commanded is:

 

• Lock Target button on cyclic is pressed while Shkval is uncaged
  
• Shkval is uncaged while the HMS is in use
  
• Special cannon employment with laser rangefinding but not auto-tracking which no one uses (I think)
  

So you can have the rangefinder happen without a "TA" lock. Simply designating the ground such that "X.X" shows up in the bottom center of the TV screen will employ the laser. You can tell if your laser is toast if you try to get a range and fail. It doesn't require a tank to lock onto you can simply press the Lock button on the cyclic when pointing the Shkval at any old piece of dirt.

 

For rockets the computer will take the range and adjust the aiming mark on the HUD. For a long range shot the mark will be very low so you have to pitch the helicopter up to get it onto your target. Aiming up = longer range.

[InFireBaptize]

The rangefinder laser doesn't really fire except very briefly (0.5 sec? It's like a photograph, it's not really "on" like the oven) every time a rangerfinder taking is commanded. The only time a rangefinder taking is commanded is:

 

• Lock Target button on cyclic is pressed while Shkval is uncaged
  so as long as the target locked (not yet destroyed) the laser rangefinder is in action? and after target is destroyed the laser rangefinder is disengaged automatically?
  
• Shkval is uncaged while the HMS is in use
  wow, i gotta be quick then!
  
• Special cannon employment with laser rangefinding but not auto-tracking which no one uses (I think)
  ok
  

So you can have the rangefinder happen without a "TA" lock. Simply designating the ground such that "X.X" shows up in the bottom center of the TV screen will employ the laser.

 

i'm confused now, so uncaging shkval will employ the laser! should i then turn of laser standby switch?

 

You can tell if your laser is toast if you try to get a range and fail. It doesn't require a tank to lock onto you can simply press the Lock button on the cyclic when pointing the Shkval at any old piece of dirt.

 

For rockets the computer will take the range and adjust the aiming mark on the HUD. For a long range shot the mark will be very low so you have to pitch the helicopter up to get it onto your target. Aiming up = longer range.

 

please see my text above in blue, thanks.

[winz]

so as long as the target locked (not yet destroyed) the laser rangefinder is in action? and after target is destroyed the laser rangefinder is disengaged automatically?

No, the laser rangefinder is never active for a prolonged period of time. It only 'blinks' to measure the distance between you and the point you are pointing at with your Shkval. It doesn't matter if you lock a target, or not.

The reason you see distance number change even after the lase is because the computer can approximate the distance betweeen you and the point shkval is pointing to based on the last range measurement.

 

BTW Shkval doesn't know if the target is destroyed, the reason you lost lock on destroyed target is because the computer cannot find it visual signature. The same will happen if target moves behind a cover.

 

i'm confused now, so uncaging shkval will employ the laser! should i then turn of laser standby switch?

No, uncaging shkval will not activate you laser. But pressing your target designate button will.

You can use your target designate button without actualy locking a target. Just point on a ground with Shkval and click designate. If you'll see a number on your tv screen, than the ragefinder laser was used to measure the distance.

[Frederf]

To be honest the Shkval loses lock on a destroyed target because of an assumption in the DCS:BS code that alive = lockable, dead = not lockable. In real life the image recognition software can't possibly tell the difference between a tank-like square and a tank-like square with a small missile hole in the side.

 

Everything else is spot on.

[beers]

I don't know abot "spot on". You do NOT need visual to make a lock. If you know the bad guy is behind that tree and you try to lock that tree, just poke around in the dark greenness and after a try or two you'll get a good lock. This is the one point i have found in DCS where they seem to skimp a bit on the reality. I can lock on a house and sometimes on dirt, but I cannot lock a dead vehicle and I can lock things that I cannot see thru trees.

[weasel75]

I can lock on a house and sometimes on dirt, but I cannot lock a dead vehicle and I can lock things that I cannot see thru trees.

 

I think it was written here before - unfortunately a good simulation of the image-recognition-software would take a considerable amount from your CPU's cycles. So at the moment this is all we get :noexpression:

But maybe it is a future project for quad-cores :D

 

.. or a second computer?

Hey, I like that idea - a second computer in the LAN, which renders the images for the Shkval and simulates the ABRIS :thumbup:

[beers]

This brings up that topic about console vs PC; http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GadgetGuide/air-force-thousands-playstations/story?id=9272180

The military seems to think that a small room full of playstations is better than a super-computer