Best way to strafe with gun or rockets?

[Prophet4no1]

So what is the best settings for gun and rocket straffing? Do you just pick and arbitrary point in the hud to point the Shkval to get laser range to the ground? It's kind of a handfull to manuve are close range and lock up the Shkval. Besides, I've seen some cool manuvers in some of the vids that I want to try, like circling a target while shooting with guns. Looks fun.

[EtherealN]

Depends a lot on circumstance. If I am about to engage a column of road vehicles with my 8cm rockets I'll typically get some range and try to maneuver for an Initial that gets me lined up with the targets. I then approach the targets at whatever altitude I dare (more altitude makes it easier to deploy weapons early, but increases the AAA/MANPAD/SAM threat) and lock the first vehicle to get range data, stabilize the helicopter (this is extremely important - you need to fly straight and level) and then set a medium-size salvo and let the pipper travel the length of the target formation while releasing rocket salvoes. When the run is complete I break in a direction I decided before performing the attack to hopefully get back into terrain cover as fast as possible.

 

The gun I typically don't "strafe" with. Strafing is a bit of an imprecise attack method and that's what the rockets are really good at. The cannon can take out specific vehicles up to and including APC's and IFV's with relative ease, wherefore I usually let it work in a precision engagement style.

 

Remember - a good attack makes sure that you are within range to use your weapons, but you are outside the enemy's effective range. Funneling and such with the cannon caged requires that you be dangerously close to the target. Caged-mode on the cannon is something I typically only use in self-defence against other helicopters at close range.

Edited January 12, 2010 by EtherealN
Centimetre, not millimetre... Ooops.

[dooom]

the only other thing i would add is to ensure you are slaving your ginsight to pipper and choosing the appropriate ballistics dial setting on rear right panel.

 

a neat simhq article on strafing runs here:

http://realandsimulatedwars.yolasite.com/dcs-black-shark-tactics-primer.php

 

also - have a run through the wiki for more information to help new pilots here:

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/Resources_for_New_Pilots

[My Fing ID]

Use the switch to your lower left by the auto hover options to lock your gun. I'd stick with a high rate of fire as well and be prepared to walk rounds in rather than try for 1 shot 1 kills. One of my favorite scenarios involves a column of trucks with 2 BDRMs in front and 3 more in the rear. Sometimes I get them, sometimes they get me. Usually my engines are so shot up I can't get back to base and I'm stuck on the ground next to the burning convoy. Would not recommend strafing IRL lol.

[Prophet4no1]

Good stuff guys. Thanks.

[Frederf]

Technically strafing in the military sense is firing a numerous amount of unguided ordnance in a forward direction from the air to the ground from a moving platform. The linear trail of bullets kicking up two trails of sand on the beach you see in Hollywood films is bad strafing from an inexperienced pilot. Good strafing puts all rounds in a "fuzzy circle" that is not elongated at all.

 

In most cases you want to use the full functionality of the Shkval system with its ability to track moving targets, aim the cannon within the traverse and elevation limits, and improve range-related aiming. Rarely is setting weapons to fixed or manual going to give improved results over the normal automated modes.

 

2A42 30mm Cannon

 

Perhaps unexpectedly 2A42 cannon typically has a range advantage over rockets which is a good thing. Altitude and speed give good and marginal improvements in ballistics respectively. The primary weapons controls are RoF, Burst Length, and AP/HE.

 

Rate of Fire is a balance between speed and stability. A high rate of fire gets the burst out quickly so the attack run can be ended sooner for more safety. The high bullet density reduces the chances of a wiley (helicopter) foe from dodging the rounds. The time that the cannon has to be pointed in the right direction is likewise reduced which otherwise might be tiring for the pilot. The downsides are that a high rate of fire upsets the airframe more and can produce misses. Also the chance of correcting errors in aim is less because the burst is shorter in duration.

 

Burst Length is again a compromise. The burst should be tailored to the target. How many rounds (-% that are going to miss) are needed to confidently destroy the target? Ideally, the pilot should fire one and only one burst (minimum length to confidently destroy the target) per target before moving to the next target or breaking off the attack.

 

HE/AP. HE is the usual round for most targets. AP is best used with the narrow range of targets that are light enough armor to be susceptible to 30mm fire but are too strong for HE rounds. BTR-90s to T-55s is approximately this range. The BRDM is better attacked with HE and T-72s are too much for all but a determined AP round user.

 

Examples:

Short, low RoF, HE - Soft non-threat static truck with high confidence of hit

Medium, high RoF, HE - Static towed AAA emplacement

Long, low RoF, AP - Static T-55

Medium, high RoF, AP - Moving BMD

 

Since the 2A42 is not mounted on the centerline of the aircraft, the pilot will notice a "sweet spot" when the target is slightly right of HUD center where the recoil from the cannon is directly in line center of mass of the helicopter. Firing from this "sweet spot" won't upset the helicopter.

 

Attacking a moving convoy is best done directly from the rear (2nd place directly from the front). Aiming is easier, closing speed is reduced, and rounds have been known to bounce off the ground and hit the thin armor under some vehicles. Defensive weaponry is also less likely to be effective firing to the rear. The BMD-1 (I think) for example cannot turn its turret rearward.

 

S-8/ S-13

 

One of the most unfortunate things about the S-8KOM is that it is an anti-armor weapon which requires a direct hit to destroy any even lightly armored target and a near miss to affect softer targets. The S-8OFP2, which is available in DCS:BS is rarely configured to be used on missions and is not present in the maintenance rearm menu, is much better against soft targets with indirect effects.

 

Because of this it's important to concentrate these rockets are tightly as possible to increase pK against the desired target. The aircraft should be made extremely stable prior to firing as yaw and pitch moments can send the rockets well off course.

 

Fire in medium (25% S-8 pod) or long (50% S-8 pod) bursts at the center of target clusters. Attempt to aim at a single specific target, even if at the center of a moderately dense target group and accept that even one target destroyed is a good result. The short (1 rocket per pod) burst setting should be reserved for live fire training and S-8TsM smoke marking uses.

 

It may be required to switch the fire control system from automatic to manual to achieve acceptable firing ranges (and thus safety) in a high-threat environment at the cost of accuracy.

 

The S-13 is another misleading beast. The rocket variant modeled is designed to destroy by penetration into hardened concrete or earthen structures such as aircraft shelters or bunkers. The warhead type is unsuitable for soft targets and the rocket density (5 per pod) makes hitting anything armored an extremely lucky event.

 

Attacking Psychology

 

Overall, success in terms of safety and effectiveness is achieved in unguided ordinance delivery by some simple rules:

 

• Right tool for the job. Understand what your ordnance is capable and not capable of and choose accordingly.
  
• Precision and fire concentration. It is much better to kill 1 target than to almost kill 10 targets.
  
• Plan and execute. Decide beforehand what the attack attempt will look like in terms of weapons used, range initiated, and range terminated and stick to that plan. Don't get shot down trying to improvise or lookey-loo at your handiwork.
  

Edited January 12, 2010 by Frederf

[Prophet4no1]

Great read Fredert! Thanks! Learned a couple things and reaffirmed a few others.

[isoul]

... The S-8OFP2, which is available in DCS:BS is rarely configured to be used on missions and is not present in the maintenance rearm menu, is much better against soft targets with indirect effects...

 

Our we sure about that? I mean, I am aware that the standard armament is S8KOM(AT variant), but S8OFP2(anti-personnel) should be able to be equipped thru the maintenance/rearm menu(should be in CAS since its HE-Frag)!

Edited January 13, 2010 by isoul

[Frederf]

Not entirely sure. I can't find conclusive proof but everywhere I look that specifies S-8 rockets in armament selections uses the exact same CLSID for the CAS loadout (4x S-8.) and the AT loadout (2x Vikhr 2x S-8.). Even if the CAS load had OFP2s... who cares? We always take the AT loadout since the Vikhr is such a necessary weapon on 99% of missions and we're stuck without whatever is available paired with the Vikhr.

 

I'll look into making a custom rearm menu through in-game ground maintenance with expanded options. I wish ED just made a pop-up GUI dialog for adjusting fuel and loadout with the ground maintenance crew instead of this circa-1995 radio-tree-preset-list thing.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Frederf

[Boberro]

My favourite complet are Vikhrs (it is obviously :D) and UPPK-23 or S-13. If I know there are many tanks I will take S-13, they are good against Abraams. Gunpods for softer targets.

 

I never trust that pipper...so mostly I hit by luck than perfectly aiming.

[isoul]

Not entirely sure. I can't find conclusive proof but everywhere I look that specifies S-8 rockets in armament selections uses the exact same CLSID for the CAS loadout (4x S-8.) and the AT loadout (2x Vikhr 2x S-8.). Even if the CAS load had OFP2s... who cares? We always take the AT loadout since the Vikhr is such a necessary weapon on 99% of missions and we're stuck without whatever is available paired with the Vikhr.

 

I'll look into making a custom rearm menu through in-game ground maintenance with expanded options. I wish ED just made a pop-up GUI dialog for adjusting fuel and loadout with the ground maintenance crew instead of this circa-1995 radio-tree-preset-list thing.

 

I think the only way of finding out(appart from judging from the effect, which may be doubtful) is to watch the rockets that are launched from the S-8 launcher. I think S-8KOM has different graphic from S-8OFP2.

 

I don't know why ED chose to provide us with Full-AT or Full-CAS options only but I think a mixture of Vikhrs and S-8OFP2 would be extremely useful since Vikhrs gives the lethality and precision against medium/heavy armored targets and the S-8OFP2 the large area of effect useful for personnel/unarmored/lightly armored targets. This seput is useful when you need to strike a soft target(a camp for example) that is defended by AAA. Vikhrs are used against AAA at stand off range and frag rockets against soft targets. The S-8KOM needs to strike the target itself to be effective(since it is a HEAT weapon).

 

This may be a good idea for the Wish List.

Edited January 14, 2010 by isoul

[Prophet4no1]

I read in Jane's book once that there was a S-8 or S-13 cluster munition as well. Based of range programmed into the targeting system it would set a fuse timer that would split the rocket open a drop a dozen or so HE/frag wareheads. Sounds pretty devistating. Something like that would be great on all these infantry hunting missions.

[sweinhart3]

This is purely matter of preference i think but I've been finding it easier to get more accurate rocket hits when it is boresighted. Trying to line up 2 pippers and get a ground lock for ranging is extra work. If its boresighted theres less clutter on the hud and its just line it up and go. I also found it helpful changing all my controls, stick/rudder/throttle to hall sensor. It has a much more precise feel to it and theres no pot spiking to screw up your line up.

[isoul]

I read in Jane's book once that there was a S-8 or S-13 cluster munition as well. Based of range programmed into the targeting system it would set a fuse timer that would split the rocket open a drop a dozen or so HE/frag wareheads. Sounds pretty devistating. Something like that would be great on all these infantry hunting missions.

 

S-8/S-13 has many variants (HEAT(AT), penetration, incindiary, illumination, smoke, thermobaric(FAE) and even shrapnel-carrying(flechette) warhead).

 

The fact is the same though, S-8KOM has poor effect against soft targets or personnel. The fact that S-8KOM variant is a HEAT weapon it means that the weapon excels at penetrating armor and produces a rather small blast. In most cases this means it requires a direct hit to the target, in order to be effective to be effective, or a quite close hit in order to be effective against personnel or soft targets.

 

Since there are many infantry hunt missions the S-8OFP2(or similar variant like HE or FAE) should be the weapon of choice.

[Prophet4no1]

Where are the HE rockets? I'm still learning the loadouts, but I don't recal any with HE rockets at all. HE and Vikhrs would be nice for mixed combat.

[159th_Viper]

Where are the HE rockets? I'm still learning the loadouts, but I don't recal any with HE rockets at all. HE and Vikhrs would be nice for mixed combat.

 

Payload screen of the ME. Create a Custom Load-Out for yourself.

[Prophet4no1]

Can I add it to radio comms and then use them in campaign? That would be ideal!

[Prophet4no1]

Anyone know where I can find a basic munitions description list I can print out? The manual is not as helpfull as I would like.

[Frederf]

a mixture of Vikhrs and S-8OFP2 would be extremely useful

 

That's what I'd use for 99% of missions, especially GOW campaign.

 

If its boresighted theres less clutter on the hud and its just line it up and go

 

How do you know where to aim? Rockets fly in a curve that depends on range.

 

Can I add it to radio comms and then use them in campaign? That would be ideal!

 

We don't know but this is something I'm looking into finding out! All threads about changing the radio comm menu for rearm just tell you "go into mission editor."

 

Anyone know where I can find a basic munitions description list I can print out? The manual is not as helpfull as I would like.

 

This is the best I've got. Explains the weapons OK enough I think: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=46571

[Prophet4no1]

I went into the mission editor and created a loadout, saved then "export" to CAS. But it fails to show up in the radio list for that mission, or any other. Is there a missing step? Also when re-entering the ME the loadout is missing fromt he list.

[Frederf]

Nah, the ME loadouts and the in-game radio-maintenance loadouts are completely independent. Saving to "CAS" means to save to the ME "task=CAS" thingy which has to do with waypoint tasks and other AI'y things.

[isoul]

So there is no way to equip such mix of weapons(2-Vikhr and 2-S8OFP2) during the mission right? Is there any way to change a preset to reflect the above loadout?

 

Or add this to Wish List...

[Duke49th]

I guess editing some lua files will help :)

[EtherealN]

Isoul, FC2 will have a mission planner feature that will hopefully allow you to graphically select weapon loadout at start (and, for that matter, edit waypoints and so on). If we are very lucky we might get that feature ported to DCS:BS. Cross your fingers with me. :D

[Prophet4no1]

Isoul, FC2 will have a mission planner feature that will hopefully allow you to graphically select weapon loadout at start (and, for that matter, edit waypoints and so on). If we are very lucky we might get that feature ported to DCS:BS. Cross your fingers with me. :D

 

Fingers, toes, chest hairs, ummm "other" hairs crossed!