has anybody fully mastered the abris system?

[Bee_Sting]

it seems that i can't get my head around the abris system. i know that you can do alot with the system. are there any vid's that go into ful detail about the abris system or the pvi 800 system?

[Mr Pink]

ha ha, ok ive got a couple of simple navigation things down. but nothing in depth yet. think that actually gonna need a couple of weeks to get into it plus planning a few special missions to incorporate it too

[Prophet4no1]

Most of the functions are not very useful in the sim. Aside from basic NAV functions, the only thing I use is search to try and find closer airfields in an emergency. The GPS pages are kinda useless. Why would I need to know GPS coverage at a given way point in sim? I never need to dray on screen because target boxes are pretty much laid out ahead of time. I don't measure distances because when I need to I just use the laser. If I know how far away I am, I can judge where to place IP's for my wingmen by eye and be pretty dead on.

 

That's been my experience so for. Maybe some of the more veteraned pilots know of some uses but aside from that , it's pretty much a fancy HSI with topographic map.

 

One thing I do like to do though is enter way point mode and select the target way point. This places that way point at the center of the screen. It reorients the map to north is up instead of aircraft heading is up. But if your spacial thinking is good you will have no issues. This makes setting up DL target packages for wingmen easier.

[StrongHarm]

I've been playing for less than a month now. I received 90% of my ABRIS information from the manual, and 10% from the forums. I respectfully disagree with Prophet4no1 that most of it useless. I've found that the only area that hasn't been useful to me is the GNSS sub-mode. I did study up on it and found RAIM thresholds interesting. I asked in the forums and found that no one bothers with studying and altering the RAIM before flight. Be aware, that the more you use the ABRIS the more use you find for it. I nearly dismissed it as a TomTom on steroids, and I'm glad I didn't. I've found my study of the navigation systems not only interesting, but empowering.

 

For instance, VNAV will save you a lot of flight time, fuel, and headaches particularly in mountainous regions. Remember that the shortest route from pointA to pointB is a straight line... but you're in the air so there is more than one vector.. turn it on it's side. Are you traveling in a straight line from pointA(current altitude) to pointB(designated ceiling)?

 

The info sub-mode provides more than just info on a fixed point such as an airfield. I like to use it to find elevation of a given area. During my mission planning I'll zoom in on the target area and check the elevation. I'll then find multiple points that provide good cover from an elevated position and mark them with small red lines 6k out (ingress thresholds). This not only provides me with with superior ingress points convergent to my target area, but also with better situational awareness before I even leave the tarmac.

 

One aspect of the ABRIS that prevents me from mastering it is the saving of routes and data. I believe I've followed the instructions in the manual very closely, but haven't had success.

 

One aspect from the manual that didn't give me a clear picture was translating coords from the ABRIS to the PVI, but there are many helpful people on these forums. Here's a post I wrote yesterday in a related thread that summarizes what I've learned from them on the subject:

So if you have the coords 44'45"46 in the ABRIS, you would type 044458 into the PVI

 

Why did the 46 minutes in the coords turn to an 8? Let's look at the numbers (0)-(44)-(45)-( 8 )

0

= Prefix to indentify the coord as positive

(not a number translated form the ABRIS coords)

44

= Longitude

45

= Latitude

8

= Which is

46

minutes, divided by 60

(which is 0.76)

, rounded to the nearest tenth

( 76 rounds up to

8

)

 

Rather than using the ERBL, I like to insert a new waypoint or map point into the ABRIS as a reference. At first this took much longer than doing a quick ERBL or INFO, but now I'm so used to it that it takes no time. Plus you get perm intel on the map point like coords, time and bearing to target, elevation, range, etc. Take note that if you create a map point in the ABRIS, then translate it to a PVI NAV/TGT, when you select that NAV/TGT and uncage your shkval (turn on TV) your tracking cursor on your targeting system automatically moves to that NAV/TGT.

 

A practical use of this would be something I experienced yesterday. There was a SAM site equipped with a radar truck, so he was able to track, target, and eliminate me very quickly. I was able to identify the origin of the missile trail coming from a bend in the road before I ejected. Once I got in a new bird I pulled up my ABRIS and found that bend in the road on the map. I plotted course waypoints (manual p231) into the ABRIS that would take me 5km from the SAM site, but behind a mountain. I marked the SAM site on the ABRIS as an INFO type map point named 'SAM' (man p253). I saved the ABRIS info and made it active. I then pulled up the info point named 'SAM' and translated the coords into the PVI (man p319). I followed my ABRIS waypoints to the ingress area behind the mountain, initiated a hover, activated NAV/TGT 2, uncaged my Shkval, and as soon as I crested the mountain I was viewing the SAM site zoomed in on my targeting system. I was able to get a lock and release within seconds.

 

Don't give up on the ABRIS and other systems in the Ka50, Bee_Sting. There's a lot of knowledge that you don't need to make things blow up.. but I have a hunch you might be someone who wants to blow things up with style.

[Frederf]

I like the ERBL function for planning good NAVTGT point locations. You take the target area and drag out a line exactly 8km away and program that point into the PVI... bam, instant ingress point.

 

One of the few features I haven't quite figured out how to work reliably is the silly VNAV system.

 

One aspect of the ABRIS that prevents me from mastering it is the saving of routes and data. I believe I've followed the instructions in the manual very closely, but haven't had success.

 

I was beating my head against that same wall a few weeks ago. Turns out the "save to database" function ONLY works when you are creating a mission in the ME. Outside of the ME it is non-functional.

[26-J39]

Extending on Frederf's comments, to save a flight route you need to "prepare mission" in ME. This will throw u in the cockpit where you will then be able to save routes to ABRIS DB.

[StrongHarm]

I'd love to be able to save alternate routes in missions.. for those times when the task is altered and your bird gets altered into the ground.. it would be nice to load up the alternate route you'd saved once you get a fresh helo. Oh well. Thanks for the concise answers.

[26-J39]

Alternate/Multipule routes can be saved... I made a training mission where you had to load up your specific flight route depending on the difficulty you were after.. 4 or so routes available in ABRIS... But yeah saving flight routes in mission is a "no go".. Would be great if this was addressed in the future.

[Bee_Sting]

i have not given up,but see alot of stuff that isn't covered in the vid's by wags. some functions in the abris system are very useful. when u get to the gness you can select analog or digtal signal i don't what that really means and how analog or digtal really helps the signal that the abris gets.

[funkee]

One thing I do like to do though is enter way point mode and select the target way point. This places that way point at the center of the screen.

 

At the center of Abris or HUD? In Falcon4 (and real F16 as well) you can mark your target (or any place on the ground) so it's visible as a little square on the HUD.

Edited February 2, 2010 by funkee

[Bushmanni]

If you can bring up the moving map and zoom it in and out thats most you need to do with ABRIS. Most stuff about ABRIS in manual is about fancy navigation stuff that you can easily live without. Though there are some actually useful things also, there aren't situations very often when it would be sensible to bother with them.

 

ERBL is nice for reading coordinates to be typed into PVI. I have also used PVI-800 to store coordinates of targets I can't currently target with Shkval but I know where they are on a map. But you can get coordinates from F10 map also. It's a slower method but you don't need to mess with ABRIS if it feels hard or intimidating.

 

Modifying flight plan might come handy sometimes, though I havent bothered ever even though I know how to do it. I mostly fly manually to better take advantage of the terrain and waypoints are really needed by autopilot route mode only. I haven't encountered missions where I would have to fly a long, complicated route free from threats to a target of opportunity .

 

Inserting info graphics on the map is a useful feature, but drawing it only before take-off or during flight is not that much fun. It would be better if they could be done in mission editor or in the upcoming flight planner (hint). But learning this is IMO nice to know.

 

I haven't ever had any problems going over mountains thanks to sharks really powerful engines. On that the sales pitch is bang on. So I haven't had no need for vnav and hence motivation to learn it. Is the vnav the easiest way to get terrain height readings from the map? That's a feature I might need sometimes.

[StrongHarm]

I've not mastered the ABRIS and I'm a noob, but here's my take on it:

 

The ABRIS is all about situational awareness. Some people are satisfied with the situational awareness provided by the 'look out the dern cockpit' system and don't have time for calculations... there's too much to blow up. Don't get me wrong, the eyeball is important (lose sight, lose fight.. right?), but flying without full use of instruments and situational awareness takes us back to WWI biplanes. If you stretch your concentration to several simultaneous tasks and systems, you'll approach the limits of pilot sensory capability, and that's what it's really all about. You will have achieved full simulator immersion.

 

Like I said before, if you use it.. you'll find many uses for it.

 

Is the vnav the easiest way to get terrain height readings from the map? That's a feature I might need sometimes.

 

Refer to my previous post. You can get elevation readings from your flightplan submode, but that only shows you the elevation at each waypoint. If I want elevations at points between my current position and the steerpoint, I prefer to use the INFO submode. It shows the elevation where ever you place the cursor.

 

BTW.. I find that using the 6,7,8 keys is much easier than turning the nob on the ABRIS. Now that I'm used to it I can move the cursor nearly as fast with the number keys as I could with a mouse.

[Prophet4no1]

At the center of Abris or HUD? In Falcon4 (and real F16 as well) you can mark your target (or any place on the ground) so it's visible as a little square on the HUD.

 

 

It centers the the selected waypoint on the ABRIS with the map in a north is up oriantation. Normally the abris has current heading as up. If I remember correctly you click "info" then select "waypoint" from the pop up menue. Then just turn the selector knob till the target waypoint it showing. If I know where some threats are from the briefing, I may mark them or make a mental note.

[Frederf]

You can get elevation readings from your flightplan submode, but that only shows you the elevation at each waypoint. If I want elevations at points between my current position and the steerpoint, I prefer to use the INFO submode. It shows the elevation where ever you place the cursor.

 

You can get terrain elevation data out of the ABRIS? I've tried this before and can't get it to work.

[StrongHarm]

Yeah, I use the INFO submode quite a bit. I've attached some screenshots with annotations.

[Frederf]

Cool, I figured the ABRIS had elevation figures at its disposal because it does that nifty dynamic threat zone thing for pre-programmed SAM radars and such.

[Bushmanni]

Whoa, how come I have missed that when reading manual. Thanks StrongHarm.

[StrongHarm]

Whoa, how come I have missed that when reading manual. Thanks StrongHarm.

 

No probs my friend. It didn't really click for me until I started using it regularly.

 

:D Redundancy Check!: If you use it.. you'll find many uses for it. :book:

[enigma6584]

Nice thread. You know we really haven't even scratched the surface of this sim yet. I myself have been just beginning to dig into the ABRIS and what you can use it for in connection with other avionics with the aircraft. There is so much depth here yet to utilize.

[Bushmanni]

I actually checked if I had been just sloppy or if this information wasn't covered in manual because I was quite sure that I had at least glanced through everything to find all important info and I had no memory of having any interest to info-submode. And it wasn't in the manual. Obviously info-mode has changed after the manual was made.

[adrift_foolish1]

I use it to determine release point for KMGU from altitudes 2000m and up. Selecting datalinked targets and nav to will give you an eta for an overflight.

[Svend_Dellepude]

Yes!

[Bucic]

During one mission I decided to learn something new in-flight. I started to fiddle with the SEARCH function and I found what I wanted. I even used the TO mode to get a nice info and a quick flight plan to my selection but I lost the original flight plan in the process. Today I decided to learn how to restore the initial flight plan to avoid such situations in the future - Manual p. 7-54.

 

My questions for now:

1. Why do I have only 9 airfields in NAV - MAP - SEARCH, and neither of the Krasnodar airfields?
   
2. when I enter 'KR' in the NAME field Krasnodar appears on the list. Why now? And why only Krasnodar, KRSN?
   
3. As soon as I use the NAV - MAP - INFO function (via cursor) I end up in the map orientation relative to 0 deg heading. I know I can go to MENU - OPTION - MAP MOTION = TRUE but how do I avoid the 'mess'?
   

 

I were getting lost in the modes/submodes too frequently for my taste so I needed to finally learn the proper way of navigating through modes and submodes. ABRIS_Advanced_Moving_Map_System_Video_EN.exe from http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/ downloads helped me a lot! I wasn't satisfied with what I read in the manual. The info on menu naviation is spread over few pages.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/scu53yjcbh99ulf/abris_selectedskills_bucic.pdf

 

Edited December 18, 2010 by Bucic

[Frederf]

I think:

 

1. Search shows nearest airfields, sorted from near to far. Perhaps Kras was farther away than 9 other fields.

 

2. Name search for "KR" shows all names that have "KR" in them. This now includes Kras.

 

3. Info tool is non-aircraft-centric which means north up map orientation even if normal mode is set to track up.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Frederf

[Bucic]

Thanks Frederf!

 

1. ANSWERED (Yes):

So the SEARCH list is limited to 9 positions? The manual doesn't mention that.

Today I tried again. Previously Maykop rampstart with ground power and INU*. This time with AC setup to takeoff from runway (all running and configured) and both Karsnodar airfields were listed at positions 2 and 3.

 

2. ANSWERED:

Yes, but it needs an additional comment - the searching is performed by ICAO airfields codes.

KRSN, Krasnodar, MIL

URKR, Krasnodar - Pashkovsky, CIV

That's why when I entered 'KR' in the SEARCH-NAME field onyl KRSN, Krasnodar, MIL showed up.

 

3. ANSWERED:

Yes, but it doesn't revert to the initial/default mode (MAP MOTION = TRUE) when I finish using the INFO or SEARCH functions. Looks like a bug to me as there are no alternative ways to exit these functions.

 

Fastest solution: Cycle through all the operation modes (press [5] few times).

 

 

* additional question then - why do I need INU (if I need it) to just fiddle with ABRIS when it should acquire AC position from GNSS satelites?

Edited December 22, 2010 by Bucic