FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[3Sqn_Sven]

I use to fly the Su and the Mig all the time in 1.02 because they were the harder jets to fly. The F-15 dominated, but I generally did quite well in the Ru birds. In 1.1 it became too easy, so I started flying the F-15 for a challenge online. Unfortunately I've flown it so often I forgot how to fly the russian birds!

 

At the end of the day 1.1 brought "balance" to the game at the cost of realism. I say phooey to that. The only people complaining about the F-15 getting touched up are the guys that are getting their butts kicked DESPITE having the better missiles (ET and 77). Cry me a river. If you are so disadvantaged, then we'll do things like limiting payloads or making uneven teams to offset the amraam advantage. EITHER way, you are going to die, so instead of winging, read some tactics and get better.

[Frostie]

How does aircraft performance suddenly change to ET and the rest of the missile debate?

 

A note to the wise a realistic simulator can not be achieved with Lockon, currently the F-15 breaks the RL F-15 max altitude and speed performance but doesn't perform as well in other areas of its real life buddy. Even though this sort of unrealistic behaviour is applied to all a/c the trumpet gets repeatedly blown for the F-15 that must be fixed even if it means by achieving at least realistic values in all departments with the side effect of going beyond that in others. It seems the opinion is if its much better in some aspects than RL it doesn't matter as long as nothing is inferior to RL, everything else will be ignored.

 

This is a similair cake and eat scenario to all the ranting about 120, yes it was slower and yes it did miss bad but what most didn't care to mention was that it also had a seeker cone the size of the whale ship in StarTrek IV, this is unrealistic too but never mind eh it makes it better than RL so why mention it.

 

I want nothing more than the F-15 to perform like the RL F-15 but I want this for all aircraft, but what I don't want is to be able to fly these planes at mach 3 and at 90000ft, sadly I don't believe this is possible with lockon.

Go on ED prove me wrong.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Frostie

[3Sqn_Sven]

How does aircraft performance suddenly change to ET and the rest of the missile debate?

 

A note to the wise a realistic simulator can not be achieved with Lockon, currently the F-15 breaks the RL F-15 max altitude and speed performance but doesn't perform as well in other areas of its real life buddy. Even though this sort of unrealistic behaviour is applied to all a/c the trumpet gets repeatedly blown for the F-15 that must be fixed even if it means by achieving at least realistic values in all departments with the side effect of going beyond that in others. It seems the opinion is if its much better in some aspects than RL it doesn't matter as long as nothing is inferior to RL, everything else will be ignored.

 

This is a similair cake and eat scenario to all the ranting about 120, yes it was slower and yes it did miss bad but what most didn't care to mention was that it also had a seeker cone the size of the whale ship in StarTrek IV, this is unrealistic too but never mind eh it makes it better than RL so why mention it.

 

I want nothing more than the F-15 to perform like the RL F-15 but I want this for all aircraft, but what I don't want is to be able to fly these planes at mach 3 and at 90000ft, sadly I don't believe this is possible with lockon.

Go on ED prove me wrong.

 

I think we are probably singing from the same sheet of music at the end of the day...maybe we can give ED a chance to provide a good upgrade before we judge it?

[AustinN360]

I think we are probably singing from the same sheet of music at the end of the day...maybe we can give ED a chance to provide a good upgrade before we judge it?

 

I second that.:thumbup:

[Boberro]

Some of you bring FC 2.0 as F-15 only update....

Look at ERs - they won't be as crappy as they are now (chaff bug I mean). They are main weapon of Sukhois, so their ratio will grow up. Of course there are few things which I would like to have in red birds... anyway it will be good as it is till DCS fighters.

 

Be happy to have LO 2 (with less bugs ect) integrated with BS, than complaining. Time to change flying habbits.

[S77th-konkussion]

The F-22 project was cancelled last summer. It's not going to own anything except shelf space in the archives.

 

The Flanker is trully a badass aircraft. Having worked in military intel and having to know the capabilities of our own aircraft and the opposition aircraft, I can tell you that the Eagle really IS a more powerful aircraft when it comes to overall air superiority.

 

While there are some close in performance gains in the Flanker, the goal is to never get that close. That's why the F-15 has the electronics suite that it does. F-15 pilots should only be close enough to see the explosion as the missile hits the opposing aircraft. F-15's cost to damned much to risk in a close in battle. Maximize the ability to obtain the kill from a standoff distance.

 

Heroism was left behing in lieu of increasing the chance of winning from a distance.

 

If they ever put every detail of the F-15C's capabilities into the game, then there'd really be no point to fly another aircraft unless more modern versions of the Flanker and MiG were included. Be glad they didn't model in the electronic capabilities of the F-15E and limited the available capabilities of the F-15C.

 

Also remember this: Just becuase an aircraft has an advantage doesn't mean it's going to win the fight. The pilots of the Flankers and MiG know the capabilities of the opposing aircraft and also have been trained how to combat them. Going head on into a fight for a close in pass and then gun fighting or using short range missiles are generally not at the top of the list.

 

 

Damn hallucinogens.. They're making me imagine the small detachment of F22's operating out of VANG/ RIC. Daily.

[124SqZeljava]

Damn, i think i was start this thread with guns dogfight and lower speed fight`s and tight turnS in air sim vs real life jet cappabil..., now most of the peeps talking about ET, 120C, 77 and how they are good online :lol:, WTF!???

[GGTharos]

How does aircraft performance suddenly change to ET and the rest of the missile debate?

 

A note to the wise a realistic simulator can not be achieved with Lockon, currently the F-15 breaks the RL F-15 max altitude and speed performance but doesn't perform as well in other areas of its real life buddy. Even though this sort of unrealistic behaviour is applied to all a/c the trumpet gets repeatedly blown for the F-15 that must be fixed even if it means by achieving at least realistic values in all departments with the side effect of going beyond that in others. It seems the opinion is if its much better in some aspects than RL it doesn't matter as long as nothing is inferior to RL, everything else will be ignored.

 

Drivel. The tune-ups to the F-15's engines caused a review that saw performance adjusted for other aircraft. The LO F-15 doesn't outperform the real one in any way that the LO Su-27 doesn't outperform the real one.

 

This is a similair cake and eat scenario to all the ranting about 120, yes it was slower and yes it did miss bad but what most didn't care to mention was that it also had a seeker cone the size of the whale ship in StarTrek IV, this is unrealistic too but never mind eh it makes it better than RL so why mention it.

Additional drivel. This is true of -all- missile seekers in LO. But you see, you like to trumpet the F-15 as well ;)

 

Sadly all missiles like INS, which means that reducing these cones past a certain point would make those missiles useless. Regardless, it has been looked at.

 

I want nothing more than the F-15 to perform like the RL F-15 but I want this for all aircraft, but what I don't want is to be able to fly these planes at mach 3 and at 90000ft, sadly I don't believe this is possible with lockon.

Go on ED prove me wrong.

Which LO aircraft have you flown at mach 3 and/or 90000', without the 'double my thrust' cheat? Which do you think you'll be able to do this with in FC2? And who said other aircraft hadn't been touched up? I know, I know, people couldn't possibly be bothered to look at what else has been written in this thread.

[pauldy]

Please show us some credible evidence proving that the F-15 is no match against the Su-27 Flanker in a dogfight. (ACMI recordings, mock dogfight results, real life mission debriefings stated by pilots.. etc..)

 

otherwise, you're just speculating..

[124SqZeljava]

Please show us some credible evidence proving that the F-15 is no match against the Su-27 Flanker in a dogfight. (ACMI recordings, mock dogfight results, real life mission debriefings stated by pilots.. etc..)

 

otherwise, you're just speculating..

I am waiting for that show video, now when both sides have there "stealthy" jets, just one thing bothers me, how in the hell they will found each other with these new jets when each side don`t see the other side, what missile will track it down when it can`t see nothing in the air, we are back to the start-DOGFIGHT visual contact:lol::lol::lol:, but i know that you guy`s have answare for this too:joystick:

[Udat]

Well Groove, no offence, but I hope you are wrong. I hope people want realism first. These are simulators after all, Leave multiplayer balance for Quake and the like.

 

I have heard stories about people in these forums complain about the strength of the F-15, and that is why the FC patch 1.12 lowered the speed of the AIM-120. To appease people for game balance. So, don't worry about making everyone happy, which is impossible, strive for realism instead please ED. For the record, I am no fan boy of any plane type. I am just as happy with any sim about any modern jet fighter.

Crunch, ever the calm, unbiased voice in the theese threads <3

 

I agree with you, realism is more important than balance. I think that avionics, aerodynamic perfomance of both missiles and planes, as well as radar/ecm/rwr effectiveness should be as real as ED can possibly make them with the resources they have.

 

I would, however, love the opportunity to fly a flanker version capable of carrying R-77s for instance, despite the fact the current russian operational version(s) could'nt do so at the time the sim was developed, even if it ws intended to do so in the future. Trough giving the arguably technologically inferior side this smallest of conscessions (in my mind,) we could get a much more dynamically varied and, well, balanced tactical environment to fly in. I wouldn't mind if we'd need 2-3 RuFor fighters to bring down an eagle, if that was the "price" of performance realism. At the same time I wouldn't mind facing a Fox 3-loaded flanker in my eagle, if that would be the "price" of overlooking the fact that the missiles, avionics and aircraft that's been in LO from the start, weren't initially all in the same plane.. I know this is a slippery slope indeed, but it might be food for thought.. I play lockon for fun, and I think having flankers with AR missiles in the game would be fun :smilewink:

Edited February 5, 2010 by Udat

[cool_t]

Things are getting bizarre around here, the F-15 in 1.12 is already more powerful than the Flanker yet its getting even more power in 2.0.

 

I don't want to hear my fellow Flanker pilots turn into the Eagle fanboys and start hooting like babies, just hurry up with the update and bring them on in their shiny new uber supped up spaceship so I can feel even better when I knock them on their overdeveloped ass.

They might beat me bad but they'll never bring me down to their level. :)

 

DUDE....Just Give me a "DATA-LINK" no other updates.....like the Mig/su-advantage....Then I will come 2 your level...

[cool_t]

How does aircraft performance suddenly change to ET and the rest of the missile debate?

 

A note to the wise a realistic simulator can not be achieved with Lockon, currently the F-15 breaks the RL F-15 max altitude and speed performance but doesn't perform as well in other areas of its real life buddy. Even though this sort of unrealistic behaviour is applied to all a/c the trumpet gets repeatedly blown for the F-15 that must be fixed even if it means by achieving at least realistic values in all departments with the side effect of going beyond that in others. It seems the opinion is if its much better in some aspects than RL it doesn't matter as long as nothing is inferior to RL, everything else will be ignored.

 

This is a similair cake and eat scenario to all the ranting about 120, yes it was slower and yes it did miss bad but what most didn't care to mention was that it also had a seeker cone the size of the whale ship in StarTrek IV, this is unrealistic too but never mind eh it makes it better than RL so why mention it.

 

I want nothing more than the F-15 to perform like the RL F-15 but I want this for all aircraft, but what I don't want is to be able to fly these planes at mach 3 and at 90000ft, sadly I don't believe this is possible with lockon.

Go on ED prove me wrong.

 

The F-15c in LOMAC "Charts" are a shadow of the "Real" F-15c...Power-Plant performance is a joke....its at 1/3 the power....and even in the FC-1.0 configuration the ONLY advantage I have is my NINJA skills and the ability to 4-see multiple out-comes in BVR-dog-fights-or multiple target engagements...

 

Why fear a the F-15c getting some "Dusting" in this 2.0 update?? Mig/Su have had a by FAR 50% advantage in F-C 1.0---Data-link, Missile-performance, EOS, power-plant, gun-sight, ect...ect...ect...

[cool_t]

As stated b-4,

 

Think about the F-15c in LOMAC F-C 1.0 configuration and how (In the right hands) STILL sent mig/su pilots back to the drawing board...

 

Its all about whos in the Jet....Data link, missiles, power-plant, radar-management...ect...ect...will give you a HUGE advantage when a BANDIT is seen. As for being un-seen is where all of the advantages become useless no matter whos in the cock-pit...

 

Think about it.........2.0....Hummmmmm....F-15c data link? That would mean I could fly alfot in my perch (With out my RADAR on) and look for the proper attack flight path, with out ANY WARNING until the LAST SECOND and then the bandits are dead...

 

Powerplant....2.0 cant wait...now I can use the "Retreating Wind-Mill--2.0"...Good Luck people....

 

Also my 120s wont "Miss" like they did...I can only DREAM of how many KILLS I lost because of this AIM-120 in LOMAC F-C 1.0

 

Muuuhahahahahahaaaa!!!!!!!!!

 

Trust me in 2.0 I will become "Stats-Monster" again.....Good LUCK!!!!

 

S!!!!

[GGTharos]

It isn't as if you can't ditch missiles in 2.0 ...

[Reason]

S! All :)

 

Hmmmm.... nice topc ("wild, wild west)

 

First i wanna call GG on HL to show you what is reall lockon, and what is the power of su27 and trash of F15C. I dont know who you are but you are for me only target on my HUD, just like as Pilotaso and many more cosmonauts and come closer baby. That cosmonauts, any of them are not real lockon fighter and dont know what is team work.

 

@ ED - your BIG MISTAKE is your beta testers. Pls post all names here and we will told you who is real pilot from lockon and you will know how you make lockon better after that! :music_whistling: ... but i respect your choice.

 

Now i will show you one of f15c pilot from last RedFlag in 2009. I just wanna show how many ppl dont know fly any plane but know join the game, chose f15c, 8x 120c annnnnnd IM GOD, IM DANGEROS, I HAVE MY F15C = FIGHT ON. :megalol:

 

:helpsmilie:

 

I respect only f15c pilots fotm 104th, because these guys know what is the team work. All lone wolfs like as Pilotaso, im sure in one THING: You are not team player, you dont know fly in formation, you fly alone far away from fight in the cosmos and wait your victim to send 120c and run hehehe. RUN TO HILLS form 15000!!!:music_whistling: Why you (not only you Pilo, i told to all f15 pilots... but you are simbol of COSMOS in LOMAC) dont join in SHORT RANGE FIGHT??? ANSWER: YOU ARE NOT FIGHTERS. :pilotfly:

 

Su27 is not dead GG. Try learn here GG http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-cope-india-vayu.html , http://vayu-sena.indianmilitaryhistory.org/pix/Su-30_HUD_F-16_Cope_India.jpg

 

:cry: :cry:

 

 

=SE=, <51> and Russian pilots will kick f15c ass always. BE CAREFUL!!! Last RedFlag is show you all f15 pilots ;).

 

S!

=SE=Falcon, SU27 FOREVER

 

P.S. sry on my english

[-C.O.U.G.A.R-]

Is the FC2 out already?

[Udat]

Aaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaaha

[Sov13t]

по Ф-15

 

 

по Су-27 график с моего поста.

 

Достаточно?

 

Quoting Scart from Russian side of the forums. Perhaps you should do more research about F-15C being 1/3 of what it is... :music_whistling:

 

The point everyone of you is missing is the fact that it is impossible to create a REALISTIC performance of any jet. This is military tech, things aren't exactly kosher in terms of availability of information, judgment calls have to be made, assumptions on how certain systems perform, and guess what even peer pressure is also a factor.

 

Availability of documents on the US side is far more open than for example on the Russian side. Unlike the US, Russian military companies didn't bother to "advertise" to the public to gain support/financial investments, and only now they are learning to do so. While in the US every time I ride the metro and pass by the Pentagon there are full blown advertisements about F-35s, Tankers and other BS... guess what, do you really honestly think they are advertising 100% factual specification? So, my point is that in every single decision that is made in order to so called bring "reality" to the game there is a judgment call that is made... and that judgment call can go a long way towards overdeveloping one or the other and this effects both sides.

 

The way I see it, and like someone has previously noted, a bunch of F-15 fanboys got together and started flooding ED with various documentation in order to make F-15C better. Great, what we have now is an AIM-120C that entered service in like 96, and based on some sources a variation of it (C5 or whatever) only entered service in 2000... and other various improvements. For example, can someone here with certainty say what engines are currently equipped to the SU-27s? SU-33s? SU-27SMs? that are currently serving in the Russian airforce? Nope, (was actually an argument earlier on the Russian forums) lack of documentation. Can someone with certainty say what algorithm the 27R, 27ER follows to account for maneuvering targets and chaff? Nope, lack of documentation. Can someone with certainty tell us AIM-120C's characteristics? that is currently in service?? Besides "oh its better" "oh its 20-30% faster and has longer range"?

 

Judgment calls are made, and if you are hoping for a world of realism in simulating military systems, all it is is hope... sorry.

 

Go ahead rep me into the negatives, seems to be a popular thing to do around here, for stating my opinion... kthx.

[Renato71]

You see! You see!

All those problems with F-15 - I knew it!

 

Whats the point in bothering with F-15 if its possible to create a level of realism that is equal to that of Tie-fighter? Thats why I advocate for MiG-21-23-27 and Su-15-17 in FC. Sooooo simple radar and missiles and flying and you can find kilonumber of pilots and engineers willing to talk about those :)

 

Cold War was much more fun :thumbup:

 

Besides, the most important thing of them all is not modeled at all - AVAILABILITY !

There are no meanings to simulate available quantities of aircraft and ammunition. No matter how hard you try in (online) mission building, all you get is "day one, hour one". You never see a message "sorry, all F-15/Su-27 were expended, would you like to try and fight with F-5/MiG-21?", or "Sorry, your wingmen were dumb arses that wasted all AMRAAM/R-77, you will have to use 40 yr old missiles", or - even sweeter - "Sorry, no more TV guided missiles here, please fly to a secondary base or use iron bombs" :D

[A.S]

This Thread ......

 

 

:megalol:

[SEwhiteG]

If ED already improveing American planes, it should improve and Russian.

Su-27 should like as in reality to carry R-77 missiles, and MiG-29 should be promoted to the SMT standard.

 

What I see, ED is trying in 2.0 to add all of the improvements on the American aircraft, but the Russian will remain the same electronics and armaments as well as 10 years ago.

I hope everyone knows that the Russians have done much to modernize its aircraft, so that reality should be moved in Lock On too.

[Pilotasso]

Some of these posts are real insults to inteligence, and what makes it worse are some of the posters are known LOMAC veterans. Clearly very few want realism, and theres lots more claiming to know what realism is...in their own convenience.

 

Just look at online tracks. The same people claiming the their planes are inferior shoot their missiles in every direction in the hopes of getting someone withtin the seekers reach.

 

I hope these get filtered out with Fc 2.0 and DCS series. Only the ones interested to get the best feel anyone can get short of the real thing will keep coming back, the others will fly aircraft clones with differen 3D shapes in HAWX.

 

What I dont undertant is: if balance is so inportant to some poeple, why wont they design missions with same aircraft on both sides? Or remove F-15's from missions?

Edited February 5, 2010 by Pilotasso

[SEPanc]

Then if we remove the F15s , ppl who fly it , wont enter the server ! That Simple ...

Or in worst case will use Mig29 as F15 .......l :megalol::megalol::megalol:

[Pilotasso]

Your mistaken, very few fly F-15's only.

I flew Mig29A's only missions, and I always wondered, since most fly only russian planes, why would these missions popularity decrease to the point no one would host them again.