FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[Renato71]

IAF F-15D #957, (nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim').

 

Ehm, yeah, D not B, I realized just after I posted :doh:

Thanks Viper

[monotwix]

 

A lot of it is bait and switch tactics which depend heavily on your opponent 'cooperating'.

 

But this opponent is flying like a bee.

What do I do?

[159th_Viper]

But this opponent is flying like a bee.

What do I do?

 

Float like a Butterfly......:D

[monotwix]

O yeah the mud movers manoeuvres.

Edited February 8, 2010 by monotwix

[RedTiger]

 

These tactics - at last by the book - prescribe a worm-like aproach to target so that you spend a lot of time in the notch and deny the first shot as long as possible while confusing your opponent's sort.

 

This tactic can actually be recreated in LOMAC. "By the book", I've wondered what the counter tactic is to this -- you have crafty SARH birds denying the first shot until they can get close enough for a decent PK. The ARH guy still can shoot his missile and probably have pitbull immediately, but thats still like playing chicken and being in a situation you never want to be in. This is probably so "by the book" that it isn't likely to happen.

[GGTharos]

It's an old book, but variations of it are probably still used. Actual, current tactics are obviously classified in their details.

 

The counter is to have a wall of eagles where if you notch one, the rest see the target. Once it gets close enough, let the 120's fly and do the rest.

 

The tactic that was described to be lately was to have a mig close to 25km, launch a missile, and then have a guy 5km behind him follow up while the guy in front goes defensive, and presumably the opponent chases him.

 

That was followed with 'basically, do not get any closer than 15nm to AMRAAM carrying birds until you make them waste their missiles'.

[Wags94]

But this opponent is flying like a bee.

What do I do?

 

Put your hand on the ejection handle and wait. :D

[monotwix]

Stick a rocket up there, see if that’s hot.

[GhostDog]

That "Famous" RL incident happened in Israel and was actually a mishap, pilot of the particular F-15I isn't the guy you saw in the video because active Israeli pilots never go public.

 

So the wing was ripped of during taxi incident between F-15I and a fuel truck with the fuel truck moving carelessly thru the hardstands...F-15 being parked with cold and dark pit...

 

:huh: Negative, the incident is well documented.

[Total]

Side Note: I was the engineering technician on the voice warning/comm interface box for the F-15I. One of the engieers and I spent a coupel fo weeks trying to figure out why it was making Betty combine "Engine Burn through" and "Bingo Fuel"

 

She was saying "Bing-en Burn Through" and it was driving us the wall. Bob made one adjustment to the code that made her say evertyhing at once. Made her sound like the female Tasmnanian Devil from Bugs Bunny. Got a good laugh out of that one. The solution was a semi-colon in the wrong place. Two weeks of engineering troubleshooting over a semi-colon lol!

 

There's also some unused messages in the F-15 and F-18 boxes. One of them is "Nice Landing Handsome!" That one had to come out due to females starting to fly the aircraft as well.

[Pyroflash]

I have just finished reading this thread and have found most of the discussion to be very funny, especially around the middle. Thank you all for the good laugh :)

 

As a pilot of primarily Eagles, I have found most of the problems with the AIM-120's "super powers" to be the fault of poor piloting skills. 90% of the shots I make against targets are from +5-10 miles above the minimum firing range of the missile. What ends up happening normally is that the pilot thinks he has successfully dodged a missile that is in fact still burning towards him; and 10 seconds later... *splash*.

 

Yes I have come to believe that the AIM-120's are underpowered, but I see it as a challenge, a learning experience, and that when confronted with difficulties, the best thing to do is not whine and complain about them, but to develop tactics in an attempt to counter adverse conditions. Turn a weakness into strength and not only have you managed to confuse your enemy, but you might live to tell about it too.

[GGTharos]

Yeah, I mean - why correct what's incorrect but correctable. Who needs a sim anyway, right? :)

 

Yes I have come to believe that the AIM-120's are underpowered, but I see it as a challenge, a learning experience, and that when confronted with difficulties, the best thing to do is not whine and complain about them, but to develop tactics in an attempt to counter adverse conditions. Turn a weakness into strength and not only have you managed to confuse your enemy, but you might live to tell about it too.

[Pyroflash]

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if everything was 100% realistic. I am a pilot in Real Life after all. It's just, there are other, more healthy alternatives different from arguing and throwing insults at each other based on topics that we as a community can't change by ourselves. So what I was saying was basically, ED will fix what they can, for the things that they can't/won't fix, people will have to find ways to adapt and live with them.

 

Would I like to see Blue missiles & avionics get improved? Would I like to see more realistic flight modeling for the aircraft? Would I like to see the AI, physics, and environment get improved? Yes, yes, yes, but on the other hand, I would be happy with the same quality product that has been and will continue to be Lock On - Modern Air Combat. ED has done a wonderful job already, and although there could always be improvements (true for any product), I am happy with what we have now, and thankful that ED has such a dedicated development team, and such a passionate community to support it.

[GhostDog]

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if everything was 100% realistic. I am a pilot in Real Life after all. It's just, there are other, more healthy alternatives different from arguing and throwing insults at each other based on topics that we as a community can't change by ourselves. So what I was saying was basically, ED will fix what they can, for the things that they can't/won't fix, people will have to find ways to adapt and live with them.

 

Would I like to see Blue missiles & avionics get improved? Would I like to see more realistic flight modeling for the aircraft? Would I like to see the AI, physics, and environment get improved? Yes, yes, yes, but on the other hand, I would be happy with the same quality product that has been and will continue to be Lock On - Modern Air Combat. ED has done a wonderful job already, and although there could always be improvements (true for any product), I am happy with what we have now, and thankful that ED has such a dedicated development team, and such a passionate community to support it.

 

+1 :thumbup:

Edited March 9, 2010 by GhostDog

[Haukka81]

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if everything was 100% realistic. I am a pilot in Real Life after all. It's just, there are other, more healthy alternatives different from arguing and throwing insults at each other based on topics that we as a community can't change by ourselves. So what I was saying was basically, ED will fix what they can, for the things that they can't/won't fix, people will have to find ways to adapt and live with them.

 

Would I like to see Blue missiles & avionics get improved? Would I like to see more realistic flight modeling for the aircraft? Would I like to see the AI, physics, and environment get improved? Yes, yes, yes, but on the other hand, I would be happy with the same quality product that has been and will continue to be Lock On - Modern Air Combat. ED has done a wonderful job already, and although there could always be improvements (true for any product), I am happy with what we have now, and thankful that ED has such a dedicated development team, and such a passionate community to support it.

 

 

+1 :joystick:

[124SqZeljava]

Yesterday i was dogfighting in f15vs27, i was hit and my hydro and electronics all died, but some how i menage to beat that su27 and i thought omg, what a arcade plane is this f15. I need to work so hard in su27 not to mention when im hit...so flying with f15 is like walking in the park, he is so unrealistic plane it make`s me laugh out loud...TT do something about this hiting glitch on f15;)

Edited February 9, 2010 by =124Sq=Zeljava

[GGTharos]

If you are hit on Su-27 and all your hydraulics and electronics die, you can still keep fighting. You can still use heaters with FiO and the gun. Same thing with any other LO plane, it's not limited to the F-15.

 

And when you say you beat Su-27, kudos, broken hydraulics force you to pull no more than what you need to sustain your sustained turn rate, which is something neither the AI nor real people are usually able to do - poor flying skills ;)

[124SqZeljava]

Sry mate, it was gunso fight...

[EtherealN]

Zeljava, if you want "arcade", compare how easy the Su-27's radar is to use in FC with the slightly more complex procedure IRL... ;)

[GGTharos]

So what Zeljava? All it tells me is that the opposition is unable to fight an aircraft that is doing a sustained speed turn.

[124SqZeljava]

And when i am hit in su27, and my hydro is dead, it is so dificulty to turn if i look how f15 menage to do the same thing, just have that in mind...i don`t belive that f15 is made of some special materials vs su27.

[GGTharos]

It could have to do with the artificial limiter, or maybe you're going too slow in the Su ... either way an F-15 with Hydro out = sitting duck. You can do a good sustained rate turn with it if you have the speed (in LO) but that's it.

 

And when i am hit in su27, and my hydro is dead, it is so dificulty to turn if i look how f15 menage to do the same thing, just have that in mind...i don`t belive that f15 is made of some special materials vs su27.

[EtherealN]

We need to get someone from 51st or such to take Zeljava on in a fight. Or any experienced Flanker pilot, really. Then Zeljava can be shown that the most important component of either aircraft is the person holding the stick and pressing the trigger.

 

Zel, what you are doing is that you have a weird idea that somehow the Flanker is "just plain better" than the F-15, and then you take the fact that you can kill Flankers while flying the 15 through BFM as proof of anything. It isn't. It's proof of the fact that you were better at flying the 15 than the other guy was at flying a Flanker. ;)

 

Pick a fight with someone who really loves that bird and knows what strengths and weaknesses both aircraft have in BFM and you'll get vastly different results. Pilot > Aircraft

[124SqZeljava]

Guys i really don`t have nothing against radars and missiles, you can leave it in 2.0 like it is now, i play most gunso, but this damage thing explain me now why are the champs in TCL are always players who play f15, sooo funny plane, realistic on su27 is good but it can be even better for avionics...i have read here that mig29 will be much better in 2.0 and im so happy for that knowing;)

[EtherealN]

explain me now why are the champs in TCL are always players who play f15

 

It's a really really good aircraft? ;)