FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[mikoyan]

So... What is the answer for the su-33

[GGTharos]

There have already been dogfights ... even where F-15C's defeated Su-30MKIs which were equipped with thrust vectoring.

 

It's the pilot, man ;)

 

Well i hope they will make some dogfights at airshow or some where else, cos now all have stealth planes the newiest gen. and than we will see wtf are we talking about here ;)

[GGTharos]

There isn't one - as far as I know no one has a manual for it.

 

So... What is the answer for the su-33

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Dogfights at airshows?

 

Ever heard of "Exercises"? Red Flag, CRUZEX, are familiar names to you? No? Well, that's the place where they do dogfights, not at airshows :music_whistling:

[Pilotasso]

There are many features that could have been added to the Russian planes to make them more "realistic" as well. Yet, those changes are ignored and not taken into account.

 

For example, count down to missile impact that is displayed on the HUD when firing a missile on the SU-27 is not there. Has been there and is documented in the manual for the SU-27SK (export version!) not even talking about the Serial version used in the VVS. Another example is MiG-29S being able to fire on two targets simultaneously. Another example is SU-25 not being able to properly bomb a target due to the way the HUD is static and can not be adjusted at an angle, so the only way to bomb is to dive bomb...

 

What is disheartening is not the attempt to make F-15 more realistic but ignoring the improvements that could have been brought but chosen to be ignored to the other planes in the game.

 

-Sov13t.

 

Nonsense, I believe its the other way arround. ED included a half baked datalink wich behaves like god mode. R-77's on migs when they were not used in actual operations, because their main market is the CIS.

 

There is no similar datalink on F-15, not even a half baked one, and its missiles fly very short, specialy the AIM-9 wich cant turn and drop to the ground in less than 2 miles. F-15 has no radar automation as it should be. The F15 is so handicaped to the point we barely can use multiple target attacks (Would be a game changing feature for this SIM) . We were forced to use LUA scripts to fix some of this stuff but its very limited in what we cand do.

 

F-15 has been up to now like a training target, thank GOD ED heard us. Lets see what comes out of FC 2.0 in the short time and resources avaiable to them.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Soviet, think positive (translation: dream! :D), they are working on improvements for these aircraft.

 

But they're being kept for something bigger and better... :music_whistling:

[124SqZeljava]

There have already been dogfights ... even where F-15C's defeated Su-30MKIs which were equipped with thrust vectoring.

 

It's the pilot, man ;)

Well we didn`t saw nothing of that, but if we talk about rumors f15 were ass kicked from su30`s in India, i belive it was some practice...

 

 

Airshows are the best place for dogfight where tv camera can record real stuff and not get info form some mil. general`s...im talking abot this cos i live near mil. af base and i was watching 4 mig29`s in dogfighting above my roof in normal training ;)

[EtherealN]

You mean airshows where they have strict limitations on where and how they are allowed to fly due to considerations like "public safety" and "let's not show every foreign agent with a camera what our kit can and cannot do"?

 

Yeah, that's perfect... ;)

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Well, if they actually want you to see it, they just let journalists and photographers participate into these exercises.

 

And airshows aren't a good place because they'd have to limit moves so they stay where people can see them and fly very low so people can watch it. With these limitations, what happens is that the "dogfight" will be too dangerous, or it will have to be scripted. And if it's scripted, then it's useless when used to compare planes ;)

[124SqZeljava]

You mean airshows where they have strict limitations on where and how they are allowed to fly due to considerations like "public safety" and "let's not show every foreign agent with a camera what our kit can and cannot do"?

 

Yeah, that's perfect... ;)

Dogfight was perfomed on Batajnica airshow with mig29 in 1997 i think, not sure, so i dunno what in the hell are you talking about...

[Haukka81]

Everybody on this earth knows that su27 is better than the any USAF jet in tight turns(maybe not from f22, that plane is manuwerable) he can out turn any plane, but not in LOFC, i belive the reason is cos of big USA market, they rulzzz ;)

 

And you are just ridiculous :doh:

 

 

-haukka81

 

Finland airforce (VR)

[124SqZeljava]

Well, if they actually want you to see it, they just let journalists and photographers participate into these exercises.

 

And airshows aren't a good place because they'd have to limit moves so they stay where people can see them and fly very low so people can watch it. With these limitations, what happens is that the "dogfight" will be too dangerous, or it will have to be scripted. And if it's scripted, then it's useless when used to compare planes ;)

Good enough ;)

[A.S]

There have already been dogfights ... even where F-15C's defeated Su-30MKIs which were equipped with thrust vectoring.

 

It's the pilot, man ;)

 

Tuff one....where and when happened that GG ..you got a link for me?

 

PS: and of course, turning "tighter" (radius) does not nessarily mean you win a dogfight. If that conclusion would be true, then a sptifire "would kill" a Flanker.

Each frame has its own regime area. As far for lockon, you dont wanna end up in a scissor with the 15 vs the su-27,where the Flanker has the better cards, but as su-27 you surely dont wanna end up in a 2cirlce fight vs the 15, where the 15 dominates ...etc etc......and many more things.

Here a short demo (just one round) http://www.as-private.com/ACMI/f15vsSu27demo.rar

showing a F-15 fight vs a Su-27. The Su-27 pilot in that case was RUS, an excellent Lockon Pilot, also very skilled in IL-2, and in my opinion someone with more understanding in BFM then those "always merge low, spiral up spiral down pilot ones" ....BUT the F15 (so the Mig29) can defeat the su-27 if you know what to avoid and where your regimes are. Surely the Su-27 will try to get you in "his game", but as F15 pilot you also have "your area" where you can dominate.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2010 by A.S

[Wags94]

Did you think that airshows = air combat?

 

You're talking as if an F-15 wasn't capable of dogfighting. Ideally you don't want to get into a close fight with a MiG or Su, but guess what - the performance is close enough that even though the flanker and mig should have an advantage, it isn't going to be a 'zomg I just pull into your tail and lolz' ... if you make a mistake - not even a very big one, an F-15 can come around and shoot you down as long as he doesn't make the same mistake.

 

Relative performance at slow speed is being looked at, but you really don't know what you're talking about. The Su-27 is not the king nor god of dogfighting - an F-18 will out-turn it so long as it doesn't have to do too many turns ;)

An F-15 on the other hand can do a -lot- more turns thanks to that insane TWR ... ie. it can sustain its turns much better (...than an F-18, and even a Su-27). The reason for what you are seeing is nothing else than the F-15 having significantly greater TWR when in a similar confiuration as the flanker.

 

But again - the slow speed performance is being looked into. Just in case ;)

 

Most aircraft can. While the F-18 is very very (should I add a third "very?") maneuverable, it bleeds energy rapidly. You don't know the meaning of rapid energy bleed until you've tried to pull +9 G's in an F-18 :P (It's a joke. I've never flown one, but I've heard it has insane energy bleed in tight turns)

 

And, that's part of the reason as to why I like the F-15C Eagle, because of those big engines. If you use the F-15 right, it can take out a Su-27 with ease. With that being said, a Su-27 being used right can down an F-15 with ease also.

 

It's all about the pilot.

 

I never tangle with a Su-27 at low level. If I do, it's only for a short while, and you can bet your arse that I'll be using my F-15's strengths (It's big, thirsty engines).

 

Another point that it's the pilot is that in online dogfights, I've seen some F-15 guys get into turning fights with Su-27's down on the deck and win. I've seen some guys actually purposely depart the aircraft and recover right behind the Flanker's tail. Flanker never knew what happened.

[EtherealN]

Dogfight was perfomed on Batajnica airshow with mig29 in 1997 i think, not sure, so i dunno what in the hell are you talking about...

 

There's no way that that was a scripted event to show off some moves to impress the crowd, right? It definitely was a full-on practice session for actual combat that they just decided to do over the airshow...

 

I know what I'm talking about even if you don't. :P

 

Seriously speaking - even if someone did authorize something like that at some point (that is, going full-on rather than a scripted show), I'd be asking for the public safety officials in the area to be sacked and put in prison for causing danger to the public. There's a reason why air forces do those kinds of training with artificial decks - f.ex the F15's will typically decide that 5k feet (I think it was 5k) is "the ground" while practicing BFM and anyone that goes below that is dead: and they do end up "dead" in this way on occassion, and in real combat there's a lot of kills credited to pilots who caused their adversary to fly into the ground during dogfights. Doing stuff like that on airshows is to beg for a jet with thousands of lbs of jet fuel to land in the crowd - unless you script it, like was most likely done at Batajnica. ;)

Edited February 4, 2010 by EtherealN

[Silent Warrior]

Um... Am I the only one who has great issues making any sense at all out of the original post and Zeljava's posts?

 

... Anyway, I propose a Close and a cuppa.

[Wags94]

Tuff one....where and when happened that GG ..you got a link for me?

 

PS: and of course, turning "tighter" (radius) does not nessarily mean you win a dogfight. If that conclusion would be true, then a sptifire "would kill" a Flanker.

Each frame has its own regime area. As far for lockon, you dont wanna end up in a scissor with the 15 vs the su-27, but as su-27 you surely dont wanna end up in a 2cirlce fight fight 15...etc etc......and many more things.

 

I have no way of proving this, but I think we faced off with some in the skies over Iraq. I really doubt it though.

 

I do know, however, that F-15's have tangled with MiG-29's and won.

[GGTharos]

Exercises like these tell you nothing, and let's explain why ...

 

Well we didn`t saw nothing of that, but if we talk about rumors f15 were ass kicked from su30`s in India, i belive it was some practice...

 

30 Indian planes attacking vs. 4-6 F-15E's defending without ability to use AMRAAM. I would expect the F-15's to get their asses kicked.

Such exercises are forces scenarios, and must be analyzed within the context of the scenario.

 

Like when I mentioned the Su-30MKI's being owned above ... does it tell you the F-15C is superior to them? No, but you might think so.

 

All it should tell you is that the F-15C pilots were more experienced and able to cope with a more maneuverable (in the horizontal, becuase F-15 owns the vertical) plane. You use what you have, and those Su-30 pilots didn't use it right.

 

Are you starting to get the feeling that the more you know, the more you know how little you know, yet? ;)

[vrv]

Hello gentl. this my new thread is about unbelievable strange and non acceptable flight caracteristics of this two jets. In dogfight where su27 is a king(in reality), f15 get`s win so easy in close visual guns DOGFIGHT, of course if player with f15 knows all the tricks. So how is that possible?!

In last tournament on TCL 1 vs 1 gunsonly, f15 has taken the won and in finals both were flying with f15 which make things even more sad.

In LOFC su27 vs f15, in tight turns su27 need to be more agile, but f15 is so strong and when we fly circle with 500kmh speed, f15 get`s on 6 to su27, this is so funny, i mean wtf???

So many airshows where su27 showing all his dogfight power, and in this, how you like to call it "flight simulator" he is so slow versus f15.

So why are you guy`s doing this, is it cos of Americans and there jet, and there BUCKS???...this is not realistic, f15 can only go for energy menagment and nothing else...mig29 very good on airshows, and in game in dogfight that jet sucks, you need to be real ACE like PIRKE:) from Serbia to fly this thing in dogfight...

Soo at the end of my short thread, i would like to say "don`t go for FC 2.0" if this things stay as they are right now, or i will give you money for nothing, same sh*** all over again.

Good project, but make it more realistic in flight.

 

I am bad english spokeman so cheers!

 

Cool story bro (Someone had to do it)

[Mustang]

Cool story bro (Someone had to do it)

 

[124SqZeljava]

Exercises like these tell you nothing, and let's explain why ...

 

 

 

30 Indian planes attacking vs. 4-6 F-15E's defending without ability to use AMRAAM. I would expect the F-15's to get their asses kicked.

Such exercises are forces scenarios, and must be analyzed within the context of the scenario.

 

Like when I mentioned the Su-30MKI's being owned above ... does it tell you the F-15C is superior to them? No, but you might think so.

 

All it should tell you is that the F-15C pilots were more experienced and able to cope with a more maneuverable (in the horizontal, becuase F-15 owns the vertical) plane. You use what you have, and those Su-30 pilots didn't use it right.

 

Are you starting to get the feeling that the more you know, the more you know how little you know, yet? ;)

I know that i will not learn jet`s specific data just cos of this reason you said, many of you are lost in space, lol, i will wait for that freaggin real DOGFIGHT bettwen this two oponent and see then, wtf are we talking about here, copy ;)

[HungaroJET]

Well you guy`s could make f15 to fly with 1 wing, like that video on you tube, USAF say it`s possible, guy has landend with 1 wing(omfg:doh:), so when i take f15 in game and when something hit me, i still wanna fly even if i have 1 wing:pilotfly:...that plane is a crap, he just have strong support from every freaggin side...

 

Don't be nervous but i flew with one wing by F-15 in FC.

Moreover i flew without 2 wings online after a SAM hit and i almost landed.

Almost coz i run out of fuel (fuel leak with burning wing-roots) just front of the runway :mad: and i had many witnesses.

 

So u need to learn how to fly with Eagles :D

[GGTharos]

Okay, until you see that dogfight, FC2 is correct ;)

 

I know that i will not learn jet`s specific data just cos of this reason you said, many of you are lost in space, lol, i will wait for that freaggin real DOGFIGHT bettwen this two oponent and see then, wtf are we talking about here, copy ;)

[Pilotasso]

^^^^now you guys know, ignorance has shown you the swords second edge. :D

[RipKirby]

lol wut