FC 2.0?? su27 vs f15???

[Groove]

It seems like people think real fighter pilots (whereever they are from) would always go into a knife fight instead of engaging enemies BVR.

 

Seriously, where did some of you got this idea from? Im sure not from your particular nations fighter pilots. Maybe from watching too much Top Gun ?

 

And i would like to remind you that we don't want to see any personal insults in this thread. You can post your opinion, but no insults anymore.

[Groove]

I think i accidentaly closed this thread. It's re-opened.

[159th_Viper]

 

With that in mind, thread locked.

 

 

I think i accidentaly closed this thread. It's re-opened.

 

 

Dissention in the Ranks.....:P

[Boberro]

Hahahahahh

 

:megalol: :lol:

[3Sqn_Sven]

 

Now i will show you one of f15c pilot from last RedFlag in 2009. I just wanna show how many ppl dont know fly any plane but know join the game, chose f15c, 8x 120c annnnnnd IM GOD, IM DANGEROS, I HAVE MY F15C = FIGHT ON. :megalol:

 

:helpsmilie:

 

I respect only f15c pilots fotm 104th, because these guys know what is the team work. All lone wolfs like as Pilotaso, im sure in one THING: You are not team player, you dont know fly in formation, you fly alone far away from fight in the cosmos and wait your victim to send 120c and run hehehe. RUN TO HILLS form 15000!!!:music_whistling: Why you (not only you Pilo, i told to all f15 pilots... but you are simbol of COSMOS in LOMAC) dont join in SHORT RANGE FIGHT??? ANSWER: YOU ARE NOT FIGHTERS. :pilotfly:

 

=SE=Falcon

 

 

To be honest I can't understand your argument, nor do I understand why you have shown a pic of a 3Sqn F-15 from Red Flag.

[pauldy]

I think some people here became personal.. name calling, labeling, taunting etc.. anyways, enough of that :noexpression:

 

If the F-15 was mainly designed to be a BVR fighter then that's it.. There's nothing we can do about it..

 

Same way how the Flanker & the Fulcrum became excellent close in dogfighters.. That's why the Russian planes have GCI support and EOS sensors.

 

ambush attacks against western fighters anyone?

 

It's like saying Eagle users in Lock On are cowards because they stay up high and do their business at long range. (or that's how i understand one of the posts)

 

I think it's quite counterintuitive to fight a Flanker in a dogfight whilst using an Eagle because "ideally" (or so a lot of people think..) the Su-27 series has edge in a dogfight.. or at least that what the public or de-classified sources, etc say.

 

Though i still believe air combat is quite unpredictable..

Reminds me of Vietnam Dogfights... the MiGs had the edge over the Phantom.. yet the likes of Robin Olds and his colleagues managed to nail some MiGs in their dogfights..

 

probably because of tactics, talents, skill and luck..

 

I thought this was about emulating different aircraft with different design philosophies?

 

If we all wanted equality maybe, we should just go play Ace Combat, HAWX or some sort of 3D air shooters...

 

 

peace out ^^^

[159th_Viper]

The Word according to Reason:

 

"The F-15 is captured via screenshot at Angels 12 with it's landing Gear extended. As a Consequence, said Pilot 'dont know fly any plane but know join the game'."

 

No allowance made for Improper Track Playback/Request for Valid Reason for said behaviour/Check at Landing Gear Integrity etc etc etc.....Infantile attempt at Provocation :music_whistling:

 

Why you i told to all f15 pilots dont join in SHORT RANGE FIGHT??? ANSWER: YOU ARE NOT FIGHTERS. :pilotfly:

 

Since when is War Fair? Do me a Favour and Educate Yourself in the Military Doctrine of Rapid Dominance ;)

[Groove]

Dissention in the Ranks.....:P

 

Nah, me getting old :D

 

As long as you keep the discussion civil it can stay opened.

[GGTharos]

If the F-15 was mainly designed to be a BVR fighter then that's it.. There's nothing we can do about it..

 

Same way how the Flanker & the Fulcrum became excellent close in dogfighters.. That's why the Russian planes have GCI support and EOS sensors.

 

Actually Russian planes have GCI support and EOS as a backup for poor radar. The F-15 was in fact designed to be a good dogfighter aside from its interceptor role - thank Boyd. Not the very best, but pretty good. For this reason the edge that the flanker has over it is not very large (but it is there).

 

ambush attacks against western fighters anyone?

This was basically the idea.

 

 

Reminds me of Vietnam Dogfights... the MiGs had the edge over the Phantom.. yet the likes of Robin Olds and his colleagues managed to nail some MiGs in their dogfights..

Actually the MiG-21 had similar TWR and thus in most cases, similar turning capability to the phantom. What the phantom did lack initially was a gun, and that was the big problem.

Both things changes eventually - the MiG-21's TWR increased with new engines at some point (I think either towards the end or after Vietnam) and the F-4 was equipped with a gun.

[Reason]

Viper, pls dont talk me about war. Maybe you enjoy to hear for every new war... me not.

About wich "rapid domination" you talk? Send 8x 120c and run? Send 120c from 96km and kill? Explain me pls how is possibile 120c kill someone from 96km??? But this is Lockon and you guys exploit game, a lot of f15c pilots. And all of you say Zerol exploit game when kill f15c... and i ask you WHAT ABOUT F15C EXPLOIT? What about kill from 96km???

 

And i wanna to say, name on my screen is hiden and this is only example how f15c pilot sleep in own perfect plane, some computer will do all for him. Maybe ED can do something for sweet dreams f15c pilots?. Su27 pilot MUST USE BRAIN if wanna kill f15, because F15 send CRAZY 120C and dont think where is enemy because 120c will find him in 99% cases in lockon. And im not say "THAT PILOT", im say "MANY f15 PILOTS join..." and priority for f15 guys is go high and fire 8x 120c (in many times randomly).

 

For the end: I apologies for my screen if it hurt f15c fan club.

 

@Sven: We got your msg and see ya :thumbup:

 

Im out from this f15c fun club, see ya and remeber: FALL FROM 17000 IS TO LONG... NEW PICS SOON!!!

 

 

S!

 

=SE=Falcon

[GGTharos]

Viper, pls dont talk me about war. Maybe you enjoy to hear for every new war... me not.

About wich "rapid domination" you talk? Send 8x 120c and run? Send 120c from 96km and kill? Explain me pls how is possibile 120c kill someone from 96km??? But this is Lockon and you guys exploit game, a lot of f15c pilots. And all of you say Zerol exploit game when kill f15c... and i ask you WHAT ABOUT F15C EXPLOIT? What about kill from 96km???

 

Even AIM-120A/B can reach this range under the right circumstances. The C has longer range. What exploit are you talking about?

 

And i wanna to say, name on my screen is hiden and this is only example how f15c pilot sleep in own perfect plane, some computer will do all for him. Maybe ED can do something for sweet dreams f15c pilots?. Su27 pilot MUST USE BRAIN if wanna kill f15, because F15 send CRAZY 120C and dont think where is enemy because 120c will find him in 99% cases in lockon. And im not say "THAT PILOT", im say "MANY f15 PILOTS join..." and priority for f15 guys is go high and fire 8x 120c (in many times randomly).

MiG pilots often do similar things; flanker pilots do it with their heaters - and posting a picture of 'some F-15 pilot sleeping in his plane' is worthless and provocative; I've seen enough red bird pilots sleeping in their plane also. Your argument is nonsense.

You're right though, most of the time they shouldn't need to do this. Especially against migs, it should be one shot - one kill, but that would be too realistic. ;)

 

For the end: I apologies for my screen if it hurt f15c fan club.

All you've done is hurt your credibility by showing that you're unable to make an argument that stands on its own. Instead, you decided to go for a straw-man. You can stop now :)

 

Finally, this is not the place to whine about squad disputes, including Zerol. Do not mention it in any way, shape or form here again - keep it on squad forums where it belongs.

Edited February 6, 2010 by GGTharos

[3Sqn_Sven]

Viper, pls dont talk me about war. Maybe you enjoy to hear for every new war... me not.

About wich "rapid domination" you talk? Send 8x 120c and run? Send 120c from 96km and kill? Explain me pls how is possibile 120c kill someone from 96km??? But this is Lockon and you guys exploit game, a lot of f15c pilots. And all of you say Zerol exploit game when kill f15c... and i ask you WHAT ABOUT F15C EXPLOIT? What about kill from 96km???

 

And i wanna to say, name on my screen is hiden and this is only example how f15c pilot sleep in own perfect plane, some computer will do all for him. Maybe ED can do something for sweet dreams f15c pilots?. Su27 pilot MUST USE BRAIN if wanna kill f15, because F15 send CRAZY 120C and dont think where is enemy because 120c will find him in 99% cases in lockon. And im not say "THAT PILOT", im say "MANY f15 PILOTS join..." and priority for f15 guys is go high and fire 8x 120c (in many times randomly).

 

For the end: I apologies for my screen if it hurt f15c fan club.

 

@Sven: We got your msg and see ya :thumbup:

 

Im out from this f15c fun club, see ya and remeber: FALL FROM 17000 IS TO LONG... NEW PICS SOON!!!

 

 

S!

 

=SE=Falcon

 

There is nothing "reasonable" about you, Reason. I think your arguments really are right at the "edge of reason". To be honest, there is just no "reasoning" with you guys... I could go on, but I can't think of a "reason" to bother....hehehehehehhe *Peter Griffin laugh*

Edited February 6, 2010 by 3Sqn_Sven

[Fahhh]

Guys, calm down... Yes the Eagles soar high and shoot from far away, Yes they have the advantage in this case, and Yes in FC2 this may be even more pronounced. And so what?!?

 

Speaking as a long time LO MiG driver, if you keep your eyes open, those eagles are not such a problem. You may not have the advantage of First-look first-shoot, but you can very well defend yourselves against them. And if you're flying as a team, you can then press those eagles, once you have extended and escaped from their first missiles.

 

One more thing - a better equipped enemy will only make the game of killing him more challenging and thus more rewarding! And that's a price worth paying in my own view...

[GGTharos]

Ok ... the inter-squad crap will stop now or I lock this thread again. :)

 

Feel free to ask questions and present arguments if you wish, but the inter-squad stuff and any cheating accusations are to be left behind.

[Pilotasso]

Bohooo to nay-sayers. Bring on LO FC 2.0! ;)

[Frostie]

Drivel. The tune-ups to the F-15's engines caused a review that saw performance adjusted for other aircraft. The LO F-15 doesn't outperform the real one in any way that the LO Su-27 doesn't outperform the real one.

Drivel?

You've never been to 70000' in an F-15 then maybe you should test the game a bit more then. ;)

Additional drivel. This is true of -all- missile seekers in LO. But you see, you like to trumpet the F-15 as well ;)

 

Sadly all missiles like INS, which means that reducing these cones past a certain point would make those missiles useless. Regardless, it has been looked at.

Additional drivel??

You say this then go on to agree with my statement.

Make some sense man. And maybe get a bit of humility to boot.

 

As you agree they do have an unrealsitic seeker, just because I don't mention all the missiles this causes upset to you. Did you ever think that I didn't mention the other missiles because you never hear about people wanting improvememts to any other missiles so why bring it up here, unless I wanted to not upset you ofcourse. :doh:

 

You say reducing the cone would make them useless, ahem, but realistic though hey? But despite your concerns its still going to be sorted at least someone understands reason(and not that^^ one).

Which LO aircraft have you flown at mach 3 and/or 90000', without the 'double my thrust' cheat? Which do you think you'll be able to do this with in FC2? And who said other aircraft hadn't been touched up? I know, I know, people couldn't possibly be bothered to look at what else has been written in this thread.

I was predicting a possible dreadful outcome of 2.0, I don't see the need for a cheat to make my aircraft faster and have never heard of one. Im in the opinion that people should spend more time learning and testing the current game instead of learning about what cheats are avaliable and what they do. ;)

 

The only F-15 specific improvements are:

 

IFF Cue on HUD

Correction of MIL thrust at high altitude

This looks promising from the power side of the F-15 and hopefully will not give it have too much power in certain areas compared to the RL version though I think in some instances this won't be the case.

Can I ask if MIL thrust is being adjusted on any other fighters?

[Pilotasso]

Yes, and when they couldn't hit "red" pilot, they simply kick him from their server (like me on [...])), because it's "unreal" in their mind.

No AIM-120C kills from 50 nm in RL.

 

 

It does, or from longer depending altitude. Wished I had meteor though :)

Edited February 6, 2010 by Pilotasso

[A.S]

Guys, calm down... Yes the Eagles soar high and shoot from far away, Yes they have the advantage in this case, and Yes in FC2 this may be even more pronounced. And so what?!?

 

Speaking as a long time LO MiG driver, if you keep your eyes open, those eagles are not such a problem. You may not have the advantage of First-look first-shoot, but you can very well defend yourselves against them. And if you're flying as a team, you can then press those eagles, once you have extended and escaped from their first missiles.

 

One more thing - a better equipped enemy will only make the game of killing him more challenging and thus more rewarding! And that's a price worth paying in my own view...

 

this is spirit :pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Drivel?

You've never been to 70000' in an F-15 then maybe you should test the game a bit more then. ;)

 

I have zoomed even higher, but that's *zooming*. Now, can you actually fly an F-15 that high? Probably - that is, if we base things on engines only and a very light plane. In reality you'd have issues with life support if you tried to maintain this altitude. It isn't useful in a combat situation.

 

Additional drivel??

You say this then go on to agree with my statement.

Make some sense man. And maybe get a bit of humility to boot.

 

As you agree they do have an unrealsitic seeker, just because I don't mention all the missiles this causes upset to you. Did you ever think that I didn't mention the other missiles because you never hear about people wanting improvememts to any other missiles so why bring it up here, unless I wanted to not upset you ofcourse. :doh:

 

You say reducing the cone would make them useless, ahem, but realistic though hey? But despite your concerns its still going to be sorted at least someone understands reason(and not that^^ one).

 

 

And this is why your stuff is drivel - because I get the feeling as you were trying to pass yourself off as impartial, except you're not - you keep posting as if some great injustice is being done to you. You have not only failed to mention other missiles - because as you said, I agreed with you on the particulars, but you have failed to read and understand what I wrote further about missing INS systems - I don't know if you overlooked it intentionally or not, but guess what - it's a serious problem, and right now it isn't going to get fixed, and until THAT doesn't get fixed, the seekers won't get reigned in quite as much as anyone might want to. It has already been suggested and I got a negative response for it. You'll be happy to know that the scan zone has been reduced though, I'm sure.

 

 

I was predicting a possible dreadful outcome of 2.0, I don't see the need for a cheat to make my aircraft faster and have never heard of one. Im in the opinion that people should spend more time learning and testing the current game instead of learning about what cheats are avaliable and what they do. ;)

 

It's an options setting actually, I forget which.

 

This looks promising from the power side of the F-15 and hopefully will not give it have too much power in certain areas compared to the RL version though I think in some instances this won't be the case.

Can I ask if MIL thrust is being adjusted on any other fighters?

 

From what I have seen, there have been adjustments to other fighters (not just thrust) but I have no basis of comparison for them (no charts) so I cannot comment. All aircraft had some supersonic performance adjustment and you'll now find you can break speed limits even with lots of weapons on-board.

I know that the mil thrust for the F-15C now matches the -1 charts very well. AB power has remained the same.

[Frostie]

 

 

And this is why your stuff is drivel - because I get the feeling as you were trying to pass yourself off as impartial, except you're not - you keep posting as if some great injustice is being done to you. You have not only failed to mention other missiles - because as you said, I agreed with you on the particulars, but you have failed to read and understand what I wrote further about missing INS systems - I don't know if you overlooked it intentionally or not, but guess what - it's a serious problem, and right now it isn't going to get fixed, and until THAT doesn't get fixed, the seekers won't get reigned in quite as much as anyone might want to. It has already been suggested and I got a negative response for it. You'll be happy to know that the scan zone has been reduced though, I'm sure.

 

So the BS BVR scenario continues, lmao, that is ridiculous and all the name of F-15 pilots wanting it all their own way.

 

How will this help make BVR more realistic ?

 

Surely if they haven't/can't fix the INS that is an INS problem and not a seeker cone issue, its clearly obvious to me if you want your 120's to hit then keeping a constant lock is what will make your PK a definite not by opening up a seeker cone to unrealistic levels.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Frostie

[GGTharos]

Uh, how will completely restricting the search zone to realistic measures (not that we necessariily know what those are) restrict it WHEN THERE IS NO INS AND NO SMART SCAN LOGIC?

 

Are you understanding this, or do I need to draw pictures? I really don't mind if it'll help.

 

So the BS BVR scenario continues, lmao, that is ridiculous and all the name of F-15 pilots wanting it all their own way.

 

How will this help BVR ?

 

 

Surely if they haven't/can't fix the INS that is an INS problem and not a seeker cone issue, its clearly obvious to me if you want your 120's to hit then keeping a constant lock is what will make your PK a definite not by opening up a seeker cone to unrealistic levels.

 

Actually yes, the INS issue becomes a seeker issue because the two are tied together. It's clearly obvious to me that you want your opponents missiles to have far less Pk than they really should when launched far - there's plenty of lack of systems in the radar and the missiles themselves for which the seeker cone makes up for - we can keep going round and round in circles with this ;)

 

This is the middle ground, and this was ED's decision. There's no better solution as far as they are concerned right now, no matter how much you'd like to trumpet yours as being better. But as I mentioned before, the scan zone has already been significantly cut down, which should address a great deal of sudden-off-bore-acquisition-syndrome issues already.

Edited February 6, 2010 by GGTharos

[Frostie]

So by making the sim unrealistic, makes it better, if it can't be done realistically then 120's need to be used more as a SARH instead of uber missiles.

 

Like i've pointed out before, realism only suits some guys on certain issues.

[Pilotasso]

 

This looks promising from the power side of the F-15 and hopefully will not give it have too much power in certain areas compared to the RL version though I think in some instances this won't be the case.

Can I ask if MIL thrust is being adjusted on any other fighters?

 

I think you have focused so much on your fears that you missed the several times that it was mentioned, yes the other planes will be fixed as well. :)

 

My bro can fly his F-16 over 33000 feet on mil you think the fix is unrealistic?

Edited February 6, 2010 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

They are neither uber-missiles, nor is your version of unrealism (using them as SARH missiles? Heh) any better than what there is now. I know what you're driving at. Not going to happen.

 

So by making the sim unrealistic, makes it better, if it can't be done realistically then 120's need to be used more as a SARH instead of uber missiles.

 

Like i've pointed out before, realism only suits some guys on certain issues.

[Frostie]

It's clearly obvious to me that you want your opponents missiles to have far less Pk than they really should when launched far - there's plenty of lack of systems in the radar and the missiles themselves for which the seeker cone makes up for - we can keep going round and round in circles with this ;)

Ofcourse I want a lower pk from far. If a bandit fires at me from 70km away then turns away I don't want that missile floating around dead waiting to pick me up at an unrealistic angle. This is the BS which is in 1.12 and by all accounts its still going to be there.

 

So in effect F-15 vs Su-27 BVR is all fine and addressed for the F-15 pilot (with added unrealistic bonuses) but same old BS for the Flanker pilot, thanks.