China shocks analysts by Flight Testing 5th gen JXX Stealth fighter

[Steel Jaw]

If it's like everything else the PRC makes, you'll find these at a Walmart near you soon enough. :D

[Succellus]

I m no engeneer but some question arises.

This plane is obviously made for absurdly low frontal RCS.

But its so BIG, and the canard and vertical tail (forgot the name) have a so wide play, that i wonder how stealthy it can really be apart from direct frontal approach.

There s also the turbine exhaust, to haul such a big .ss, it need power, power translate itself in combustion, which come to heat and end up in IR signature.

 

Im really curious how much efective efective this bird would be. I bet it can pull some nice stunts, but aerobatic and combat are separate things.

[Succellus]

If it's like everything else the PRC makes, you'll find these at a Walmart near you soon enough. :D

Well if the MFD are cheapo i m in, will be nice to pull a cockpit together with those. Are they USB, DB 15 or HDMI ? :D

[Pilotasso]

I m no engeneer but some question arises.

This plane is obviously made for absurdly low frontal RCS.

But its so BIG, and the canard and vertical tail (forgot the name) have a so wide play, that i wonder how stealthy it can really be apart from direct frontal approach.

There s also the turbine exhaust, to haul such a big .ss, it need power, power translate itself in combustion, which come to heat and end up in IR signature.

 

Im really curious how much efective efective this bird would be. I bet it can pull some nice stunts, but aerobatic and combat are separate things.

 

Yep, low frontal RCS, because in every other angles, doesnt look like its very stealthy. Including, the engines, they are not hidden like on the F-22 and are protruding instead. Its going to glow in infra red on some angles.

 

In addition, its configured like a lawndart. Doesnt look like a dogfighter. Though I have to give them that their design is much more bold than the PAK-FA, and looks much much better than their previous designs.

 

There are figures around the net that this plane will cost somewhere on the 40 billion dollars range to develop versus 60 of that of the F-22, and 6 on the PAK-FA. Although many factors can influence for this figure like cost of man power and know how, its still quite telling that China may well have achieved a milestone with this J-20. However I still think it wont surpass either the F-22 or F-35.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[GGTharos]

Looks like a stealth strike fighter in the spirit of F-111/Su-24/34?

[Pilotasso]

Yep, it would work good if it had long range standoff weapons, and avoid any AA combat against any fighter with low RCS and/or electronic cancellation technologies. (it would end up in a dogfight).

 

Cant wait to show this to my brother later tonight.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[3GOCHN-443]

If it's like everything else the PRC makes, you'll find these at a Walmart near you soon enough. :D

 

That would be perfect, China will soon earn enough money to develop more advanced aircrafts. This is 5th-Gen fighter we are taking about, it will make much more money than selling T-shirts or cheap cellphones:megalol::megalol::megalol:

[3GOCHN-443]

I want to point out that this is just a prototype and there're lot's of work still left over, think about how many differences between YF22 and F22A. So I believe the final edition will be much better. For example the 150+ KN thrust WS15 will replace the AL31F by then and maybe by that time the tail will be an RCS reduce model.

 

And we must notice that the PLAAF is build as a national air defense type of military force and I don't think it will change very soon. So PLAAF aircrafts doesn't need to worry to much about what the tail look like because there is the whole SAM system watching its back.Their job is to intercept the invader or attack the enemy AWACS, not to fly above other country to drop the bomb.So we will understand why this bird is so long and has a big nose. Cause the supersonic performance and good radar performance is what PLAAF wanted.

[GGTharos]

If the inlets perform like the F-35's (they look similar, which may or may not mean anything) then this aircraft isn't really meant to have big supersonic performance.

[Pilotasso]

I want to point out that this is just a prototype and there're lot's of work still left over, think about how many differences between YF22 and F22A. So I believe the final edition will be much better. For example the 150+ KN thrust WS15 will replace the AL31F by then and maybe by that time the tail will be an RCS reduce model.

 

And we must notice that the PLAAF is build as a national air defense type of military force and I don't think it will change very soon. So PLAAF aircrafts doesn't need to worry to much about what the tail look like because there is the whole SAM system watching its back.Their job is to intercept the invader or attack the enemy AWACS, not to fly above other country to drop the bomb.So we will understand why this bird is so long and has a big nose. Cause the supersonic performance and good radar performance is what PLAAF wanted.

SAM's usualy avoid firing when theres friendly aircraft in the area, so this idea of "SAM will watch J-20's back" is not a realistic one. I think that SAM's will complement fighters instead, freeing up the long range fighters for other tasks.

 

I think this plane is made to strike and disappear quickly at long range, otherwise it wouldnt need to be so big or have low RCS.

 

While China has remained a local military influence to date, its indeed starting to change. The acquisition Submarines with ICBM's, large destroyers and carriers with heavy fighters, and this new Stealth fighter is marking a change for a regional if not a hemispheric military reach.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Kusch]

 

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Market economy + huge amount of manpower (engineers, scientists) + single party political system = soon to be most powerful country in the world.

 

For anybody who doubts China ability and future, just take a trip to Shanghai, climb the Oriental Perl and take a look around. I was amazed!

 

China has more engineers than most European countries population. While we can put one engineer or scientist to work on a problem, they can put five or ten. Think about it ...

[Pilotasso]

I have spoken with a friend of mine who works on Shangai and returned a few weeks ago. He told me many stories, including our views of china are prejudicial, both on its best and worst. He told me, for example, in shanghai there is no drinkable water in plumbing, everything outside cities like this is like time travel to the past 90% is left undeveloped. In his words (not mine, and sorry if offends some) the Chinese people is hard working but also typically avoid taking risks and are less imaginative. Up so far they also have a deficit in know how. So in order to achieve something they have to put up a disproportional amount of resources into it, often involving brains from abroad, just like in his case (ship building).

 

Also, cheap low quality is not always the mark of China. In the markets you can find high quality chinese products even when they look exactly like the western ones, they are just as good, only costing half the price because its not imported from countries of much more expensive labour.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Groove]

Let's focus on the discussion of the new chinese fighter jet.

[asparagin]

I want to point out that this is just a prototype and there're lot's of work still left over, think about how many differences between YF22 and F22A.

 

..Don't forget people, before you start complaining.. it's still a BETA !!

[asparagin]

I have spoken with a friend of mine who works on Shangai and returned a few weeks ago. He told me many stories, including our views of china are prejudicial, both on its best and worst. He told me, for example, in shanghai there is no drinkable water in plumbing, everything outside cities like this is like time travel to the past 90% is left undeveloped. In his words (not mine, and sorry if offends some) the Chinese people is hard working but also typically avoid taking risks and are less imaginative. Up so far they also have a deficit in know how. So in order to achieve something they have to put up a disproportional amount of resources into it, often involving brains from abroad, just like in his case (ship building).

 

China is a country of contrast-es, you will never understand it by media or your friends stories. You will have to visit it yourself. I myself visited 3 major cities including Shanghai and only start to scratch the surface. One thing I can tell you: don't try to understand China trough the eyes of small European countries. You need other glasses.

[Pilotasso]

Theres a problem with Visiting china too, everything outside the major cities that Tourists visit, has been made from the ground up just for tourism, even entire villages. Its hard to escape from the tourism routes, if you did, your a lucky guy.

[3GOCHN-443]

SAM's usualy avoid firing when theres friendly aircraft in the area, so this idea of "SAM will watch J-20's back" is not a realistic one. I think that SAM's will complement fighters instead, freeing up the long range fighters for other tasks.

 

I think this plane is made to strike and disappear quickly at long range, otherwise it wouldnt need to be so big or have low RCS.

 

While China has remained a local military influence to date, its indeed starting to change. The acquisition Submarines with ICBM's, large destroyers and carriers with heavy fighters, and this new Stealth fighter is marking a change for a regional if not a hemispheric military reach.

 

 

The SAM avoid friendly aircraft issue honestly I've never think about it. Being a long range fighter is absolutely important for a Chinese fighter, in fact that's why China purchased SU27 instead of MIG29. However in J-20's case, I want to believe it's designed as a fighter not a fighter-bomber because China is expecting many 5th-Gen fighter all around it: Russia has PAK-FA and so will India and many former Soviet Union countries. Japan and Korea even Taiwan are struggling on buying F35. USA also has airbase not far from China with stealth fighters and bombers. So to deal with all these advanced fighter with a reasonable amount of price, a complex expansive multifunction fighter-bomber is not a wise choice. Of cause it can accomplish some strike task but it be its main business.

 

As a Chinese, I know what Chinese people think. Thousands of years ago we were the strongest country in the world yet we didn't love the taste of blood like the romans or the arabians (no offense). Today I don't think we will be changed especially half of the economy of China is beasd on orders from abroad.:)

[Pilotasso]

The SAM avoid friendly aircraft issue honestly I've never think about it. Being a long range fighter is absolutely important for a Chinese fighter, in fact that's why China purchased SU27 instead of MIG29. However in J-20's case, I want to believe it's designed as a fighter not a fighter-bomber because China is expecting many 5th-Gen fighter all around it: Russia has PAK-FA and so will India and many former Soviet Union countries. Japan and Korea even Taiwan are struggling on buying F35. USA also has airbase not far from China with stealth fighters and bombers. So to deal with all these advanced fighter with a reasonable amount of price, a complex expansive multifunction fighter-bomber is not a wise choice. Of cause it can accomplish some strike task but it be its main business.

 

As a Chinese, I know what Chinese people think. Thousands of years ago we were the strongest country in the world yet we didn't love the taste of blood like the romans or the arabians (no offense). Today I don't think we will be changed especially half of the economy of China is beasd on orders from abroad.:)

 

Korea (already given up their indigenous project), Taiwan and Japan would never get any stealth fighter...until today. That, now may change :D

 

This J-20 doesnt have a large mid body wing like all others, it has a very much backward delta wing, and is very long. Its not a mark of a defense fighter, and a pure dedicated interceptor concept is obsolete nowadays.

 

People are calling this the real competitor the the F-22, but I start to think its more like an F-35.

 

Its precisely because of chinese commerce that the government want to expand its area of influence. At least thats what they are saying. And to accomplish this, an AA fighter is not adequate. I should be an attack aircraft with AA capabilities like the F-35 will be.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[3GOCHN-443]

Theres a problem with Visiting china too, everything outside the major cities that Tourists visit, has been made from the ground up just for tourism, even entire villages. Its hard to escape from the tourism routes, if you did, your a lucky guy.

 

 

Well......what can I say....maybe I myself is also live in a place just for tourism too:megalol:. The fact is you can go anywhere as long as you have money and time, even beside the airfield where the 5th-Gen fighter is tested in Chengdu city. Of cause some of the place you can't visit such as military base, but as far as I know you can't visit any military base in USA without a permission either. I admit that many of the progress of technology in China is based of foreign brains. But we didn't force them to come and we paid them reasonable price, sometimes even over price. So don't try to judge a country by just watching CNN or wikileak, cause no experience is better than experience it yourself.

Edited December 29, 2010 by 3GO*CHN-443

[asparagin]

Theres a problem with Visiting china too, everything outside the major cities that Tourists visit, has been made from the ground up just for tourism, even entire villages. Its hard to escape from the tourism routes, if you did, your a lucky guy.

 

Who says I went there as a tourist?

Anyways, can't wait to go there again!

[Antartis]

 

 

 

 

[Pilotasso]

Very neat linup, its only missing the F-35 :)

[Alex_rcpilot]

Theres a problem with Visiting china too, everything outside the major cities that Tourists visit, has been made from the ground up just for tourism, even entire villages. Its hard to escape from the tourism routes, if you did, your a lucky guy.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There's no law against foreigners travelling to rural regions. You can pick a remove village on the map and hit there any time you want.

 

Even tourism itself is a financial approach of supporting regional economy. There are entire villages built to help attract tourists, but they're not built just to make a point to strangers, people do live there, and they live on what's around them.

 

Transportation in general is sufficiently if not well developed, hotels can be found everywhere, which is convenient for visitor. The actual problem with visiting China is the language, even we ourselves could have problems with different dialects. Visitors tend to pick "hot spots" coz most of them may easily get lost elsewhere without a guide. :)

 

 

As for the "less imaginative" part, I can't agree more on that. Can't veer off the topic too much, forgive me.

 

BTW, I'm not surprised to find a fellow 3GO member here. Whatup! 443, lol

[Pilotasso]

Didnt say there was a law for that. And this is not my testimony.