Complaints about A-10A guns

[drhow]

This thread got me thinking, and well I think it's pretty easy to get the effect that you are looking for.

 

I really have no idea about modding lomac, but as far as I can tell this works, though may not be "kosher". I dont know.

 

After following the trail through a couple .lua files, I went into config\weapons\shell_table.lua and at the very end there in an entry for the a-10 guns. I also noticed that HE rounds exist, technically. Anyway, I removed the tracer effect on the gun, and added some explosive to it and I find that this is pretty nice. Perhaps someone with more experience could add to this, or package it up for modman.

 

shell("GAU8_30_AP", _("GAU8_30_AP"), {
 model_name    = "pula",
 v0    = 950.0,
 Dv0   = 0.0060,
 Da0     = 0.0017,
 Da1     = 0.0,
 mass      = 0.360,
 explosive     = 0.0750,
 life_time     = 31,
 caliber     = 30.0,
 AP_cap_caliber = 15.0,
 s         = 0.0,
 j         = 0.0,
 l         = 0.0,
 charTime    = 0,
 cx        = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15},
 k1        = 5.7e-09,
 tracer_off    = 4,
 scale_tracer  = 0,

 name = "30mm AP",
});

 

The only changes are to model_name, explosive, and scale_tracer. I don't know how this would work for multi...anyway, it's a start.

[Mugenjin]

None of the videos I can find on Youtube show visible tracer or bouncing of rounds off the ground.

 

Is there actually a video on youtube showing an A-10 firing API rounds? As far as I'm aware there are only those little clips, showing A-10 giving CAS in AFG or wherever, naturally with HEI.

[ACUTech]

This thread got me thinking, and well I think it's pretty easy to get the effect that you are looking for.

 

I really have no idea about modding lomac, but as far as I can tell this works, though may not be "kosher". I dont know.

 

After following the trail through a couple .lua files, I went into config\weapons\shell_table.lua and at the very end there in an entry for the a-10 guns. I also noticed that HE rounds exist, technically. Anyway, I removed the tracer effect on the gun, and added some explosive to it and I find that this is pretty nice. Perhaps someone with more experience could add to this, or package it up for modman.

 

shell("GAU8_30_AP", _("GAU8_30_AP"), {
 model_name    = "pula",
 v0    = 950.0,
 Dv0   = 0.0060,
 Da0     = 0.0017,
 Da1     = 0.0,
 mass      = 0.360,
 explosive     = 0.0750,
 life_time     = 31,
 caliber     = 30.0,
 AP_cap_caliber = 15.0,
 s         = 0.0,
 j         = 0.0,
 l         = 0.0,
 charTime    = 0,
 cx        = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15},
 k1        = 5.7e-09,
 tracer_off    = 4,
 scale_tracer  = 0,

 name = "30mm AP",
});

 

The only changes are to model_name, explosive, and scale_tracer. I don't know how this would work for multi...anyway, it's a start.

 

 

I'm so trying this!

[159th_Viper]

Anyway, I removed the tracer effect on the gun.....

 

Has an interesting effect in that you see the individual rounds flying outta the Cannon - had a chuckle at that :)

[Glowing_Amraam]

screens? :P

[159th_Viper]

screens? :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

:megalol:

[Squid]

awe & some :megalol:

[deadsmell]

Hey Viper, would you mind posting a screen or two of the changes made to the impact area?

 

Dust/smoke etc.

[Distiler]

Hehe cool effect, but won't work online, all servers have integrity check by default precisely at /config/weapons folder (for a reason, before patch DCS:Ka-50 1.01 you could see Kamov 50 with maverik and sidewinders in the servers lol, talk about creativity XD)

[159th_Viper]

Hey Viper, would you mind posting a screen or two of the changes made to the impact area?

 

Dust/smoke etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[deadsmell]

^^

 

Thanks!

 

Looks pretty cool!

[Boberro]

Are these modyfications of guns allowed on servers?

[thw6kds]

drhow,

 

Thanks for digging into the config and coming up with an alternative to the effect for the GAU8 30mm in FC2. I flew the A-10A from 1980 until 1995 and my sons and I have enjoyed LOMAC for years. It is hands down, our favorite sim. The A-10 gun effects were not perfect in FC1 but they are awful in FC2! Don't get me wrong. This is a superb and very fun modern air combat sim and my complaint in no way diminishes our repect for the developers and the fun we have with it. I just find it surprising that the gun around which the A-10 was designed and built got such relatively short shrift in an otherwise extremely immersive sim.

 

Your simple mod of the config file for the GAU8 30mm actually results in something that more closely resembles a real world 30mm strafe pass from the cockpit than the FC2 original. I find the little black dots much easier to ignore than the cartoonish tracers which appear to bounce off anything they hit without even so much as a puff of dust! I have never seen any flavor of 30mm behave in the way that is depicted in FC2. In my relatively long experience, I don't think I have ever seen the GAU8 30mm bounce off anything! The effect in FC2 might be appropriate for 7.62 hitting armor plate at night, but not for the A-10. Because of its enormous kinetic energy, the impact of any kind of GAU8 30mm round, even the inert, frangible TP, on land or water looks VERY impressive from the cockpit. Your modification of the file works for me by eliminating the very unrealistic tracer effect and very nicely depicting the time of flight of a round from trigger pull to impact on target. The addition of an appropriately modest explosive effect enhances realism. This gives a good feel of what it is like doing long-range and multiple target strafing. You can watch the sparkles on the first target as you put the pipper on the next one.

 

There is probably a good reason that A-10 strafe effects are depicted the way they are in FC2. This is only a minor quibble I have based upon my real world experience. In the meanwhile, my boys and I intend to fly it with the config you posted. We shall follow posts on this closely. Thanks!

[Griffin]

Those visible rounds do look a bit funny. I don't mind the tracers as long as there is some effect when they impact so I'll be using the mod.

 

The next question is about Su-25 cannon loadout and the effects on target. I'll ask from the Russian Su-25 pilot on Russian side when I'm done reading the last pages. Maybe someone already asked it.

[SinCityJet]

All weapons in the game can be adjusted just as the GAU8 have been. Please come back and let us know what they are working on. I'm testing other things and trying to get "real" data put in IE velocity, mass, kinetic energy. Thanks for your help.

 

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/vzajic/3rdchapter.html

 

(" For example, 30 mm DU rounds from GAU-8A automatic cannon mounted on A-10 Warthog aircraft can pierce steel armor up to 9 cm (3.5 in.) thick."

 

Here's an interesting fact... PGU-14 API DU bullets, not the entire cartridge, weigh 298 grams. If you look at the weapons table in FC2, you'll notice all of the rounds are given the exact same mass.

 

Another interesting fact: Right after I posted this, the thread was moved to the far less seen Mod section. Yep, the hazards of being the canary in the coal mine.

 

That's pretty heavy High Explosive, isn't it?

Edited April 8, 2010 by SinCityJet
Updated

[thw6kds]

HAVOC131

Thanks for the interest in getting this GAU8 thing right. I saved all the original config settings and use the quick config changes to get something that looks a little more realistic. The bright ricochets just won't do. I am doing the same with two other computers on our LAN and hope local multiplayer will let us get by as long as the config is the same for all. We shall see!

Drhow...thanks for this.

 

I see that changing to Pula gets rid of the tracers. I can't figure out what the scale_tracer parameter does. What does changing that to 0 actually do?

Edited April 9, 2010 by <((((><

[Griffin]

Are those ricochets I see after 1:25?

 

[mvsgas]

I think so, but it doesn't matter, I guess people just don't like it

[Griffin]

I can live with a little amount of tracers as long as I still see effects on the ground. Let's see how this mod evolves. The next job is to modify the Su-25 too.

[drhow]

I'm glad to know people are enjoying this, thank you for the kind words! If you really don't like the "pula" model, there is also a "kinetic_type1" model, I believe it is some kind of sabot flechette sort of round. A bit smaller than "pula", but stranger looking imho. Aside from that and several different colours of tracer we don't seem to have any other options.

 

Havoc, here's what I think for these values.

v0 = 1080.0, <<< Change velocity of round ?

Dv0 = 0.0060, <<Need help, don't know yet.

Da0 = 0.0017, <<Need help, don't know yet.

Da1 = 0.0, <<Need help, don't know yet.

mass = 0.360, <<Mass of round?

explosive = 0.0750,<<<< Change explosive power of round.

life_time = 31, <<Need help, don't know yet.

^-- my guess is how long (in seconds) the game will keep calculating the flight of the projectile without impact before it stops and deletes it

 

caliber = 30.0,

AP_cap_caliber = 15.0, <<<<Change AP abilities or round.

 

s = 0.0, <<Need help, don't know yet.

j = 0.0, <<Need help, don't know yet.

l = 0.0, <<Need help, don't know yet.

^-- I think that these three variables may have to do with producing 'lift', like if the projectile had wings attached

charTime = 0, <<Need help, don't know yet.

 

cx = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15}, <<Need help, don't know yet. Damage to types of material?

^-- I'm pretty sure this is some sort of coefficient of friction

 

k1 = 5.7e-09, <<Need help, don't know yet. Kinetic Energy?

^-- I agree, in that my guess would also be kinetic energy. Though since there is mass and velocity already, I don't know why we would need to specify this.

 

tracer_off = 4, <<Need help, don't know yet. Distance you can see it?

^-- I think this is the time in seconds till the tracer stops being drawn by the graphics engine. If set to 0 the tracer disappears about 30-40 feet in front of the plane. If set to non-natural (decimal) number the game will not start.

 

scale_tracer = 1, <<Need help, don't know yet. Size of tracer?

^-- I changed this one, but in the end have no idea what it actually does. My guess would be tracer streak length.

name = "30mm AP",

 

Really, this will take a large amount of trial and error to figure out. Ideally it would be great if someone who wrote this code could show us one well commented gun table entry. It would be very much appreciated and we'd have a much better idea of how to go about this.

 

Please... Pretty please! :)

[drhow]

All weapons in the game can be adjusted just as the GAU8 have been. Please come back and let us know what they are working on. I'm testing other things and trying to get "real" data put in IE velocity, mass, kinetic energy. Thanks for your help.

 

I'd be careful with this idea. Remember that is this a desktop simulation so there are probably many simplifications programmed into the physics model. Sometimes that requires that values have to be tweaked and adjusted in order to get correct-looking physical behaviour at the end of the day. Just plugging in real values could cause weirdness.

Does changing these parameter change the actual properties of the ammo or is it only changing the graphics? The only changes I made are the following and I think it looks great now:

 

model_name = "kinetic_type1",

explosive = 0.0750,

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Have also been playing with settings mainly with the goal of being able to kill a T55 with guns, not much luck so far.

 

MK20 are now such a dissapointment also.

[GGTharos]

That's what happens when you mess with the in-game parameters without understanding what you're doing.

 

The Mk-20's work just fine, you just have to employ more realistically.

The GAU-8 is by default armed with API in FC2, and you switched it to HE ... which will NOT penetrate armor well.