SU-27 need corrections in FC2.0

[EtherealN]

Yeah, except for those last 10ish seconds of pitbull the F15 might as well launch an AIM-7 (or, for that matter, R-27 :P ).

 

Borchi, you need to realize that the same changes that were done to the Eagle were done to all aircraft, and both red and blue missles were tweaked. The only Eagle-exclusive change was that IFF-cue.

 

Though it would have been nice if we could have had some inertial guidance and datalinks to the AMRAAM, since the real thing does have those. Would be sweet to get some updates from the missile when it burns through on a HOJ launch, for example - always nice to know if it's gone pitbull or not. :P

 

Now lets all chill for a while and discuss this calmly sometime later? ;)

[gekoiq]

What I find amusing are all the "arm chair fighter pilots" that seem to some how know more and have better sources about the intricacies of airframes, flight systems, sensors, missile tech, etc than a design firm that does ultra high fidelity flight sims FOR the military.

[borchi_2b]

well i have to check my skill, harsh, but believe me, my skills are not bad. i fly sarh, and i am one of 2 sarh pilots in our squad. the funny thing is we are bvoth the highscorer in our squad.

 

so it is not the skills, but you have to get into the position to make a kill, and thats by far way harder then turn and burn. plus, the aim120 and the r27er have the same ranges now, which means, turn and burn is no option for sarh.

 

prior there was some more range, even before fc2.0 the r27er flew about 2min, now 1,5 min, then it blows up. numbersd and facts are recorded now, partially, but some time short there will be a list of changes in weapons ballistics. i am not sure if i should make it official, i guess i will write to some guy from ED and ask there gentil why this is the way it is, and why it was changed.

 

who would be the best person to write too?

[GGTharos]

The R-27ER has a higher top speed and longer motor burn time than the AIM-120C.

Even if they eventually float over to the same range, the R-27ER will get there first.

 

In addition, flanker pilots are telling me their ETs are working, and eagle pilots are telling me ETs are hitting them ... have you checked your supplier? ... ;)

Edited April 9, 2010 by GGTharos

[EtherealN]

Well borchi, the ER should get to target faster than the 120. It will bleed energy faster than the 120 though.

[Szelma]

:music_whistling:

:lol:

 

SU-27 Fanboys

:D

[104th_Crunch]

does Ed really think people are stupied and will not realise that all was done in favour for a whining f15c community...

 

So, you accuse ED of thinking their customers are stupid and then you call a section of their customers whiners. You do know there are way of expressing you opinion with out abuse? I am amazed you are allowed on this forum at all.

[MoGas]

well i have to check my skill, harsh, but believe me, my skills are not bad. i fly sarh, and i am one of 2 sarh pilots in our squad. the funny thing is we are bvoth the highscorer in our squad.

 

Well, I flew against u and youre friends in the last couple days on the 104th server. The only thing what I can say is u guys need alot training with team tactics, even 3 vs.1 is not working for u.

 

I tell u if I would to that with the 51st, it would not working that way. U guys keep close formation, head-on, on a F-15 with TWS function, where the F-15 is on the crank!

 

I never saw one guy from youre formation comeing up with a F-Pole, Crank, or at least to split off from the tight formation, be honest I would expect a bit more from a "highscorer"!

 

So finally stop blame ED or anybody else, u guys need BVR training that's all!

 

cheers

[Scudslaker]

i have a nice spell in this year,...things change!)

 

and i think, improved systems, need new tactics..it is verry detailed improved and it is amusing me, how some of our pilots are agumenting that those improvements are wrong,..

 

i trust in ED.

 

Sure, there can be some more fixes on some points..but.. i think, the general improvements have their realistic authority. Sim changed more and more to a core level and skills on tactical aspects are more needed then in the past!)

 

Well pilots, lets practice more on those aspects, then to complain on things you don t like cause you were beaten by AI or human opponents..

 

cheers for all

 

Scud

[Breakshot]

There is one question raised bout the ET that im also wondering about... just out of curiosity...

 

The ET does indeed still act as an "airbrake" in FC2. And if fired alongside an ER in maddog style for test purposes, with both missiles just flying dead straight (without any smart trajectory to target, etc). The ET dies about half way to what the ER can fly to...

 

IMO that seems odd as both missiles have the same motor and theoretically should have almost identical kinematic range.... Yes perhaps the ET might have slightly more drag due to a rounder nose tip, but i dont think that would have SUCH a drastic effect on perfomance... as it stands now its close to 40% less than what the ER can do... which IMO just doesnt add up..

 

What do you guys think? Perhaps something that was missed out in FC2 missile revamps? Could be good to have the ET do what it was meant to do in rear aspect, and actually "catch" bandits as it should... because right now, in a chase scenario they still lack the legs quite bad due to the above issue...

Edited April 9, 2010 by Breakshot

[Breakshot]

And regarding the ERs debate... I would say Borchi you are overreacting big time!

 

Try a test in Su-27 against an F15 both at med-high altitude, one fires a 120C the other an ER at the same time....

 

Not only will the ER get there first, it will still have more energy in kill zone as compared to 120... Also by the time the Eagle has to make a defensive maneuver to run from the ER his actives arent yet in pitbull range which creates a high chance for him to drop track and completely trash those actives... as long as the Flanker pilot isnt dumb enough not to "clear datum"

 

The only advantages i see for the 120 is the fact that you dont have to go out of your way to keep lock/track (in a flanker you gotta be smart enough and get into a good position not to loose it), and of course the ability to engage more than just one target in a more "silent" fashion...

 

Im not saying things are peachy for the Su-27, its def harder now to fight F15s... but its not "hopeless" as some seemingly attempt to portray it here...

 

As far as ranges and speed are concerned, the ER still is the better missile... Oh and do note the trajectory the ER takes in FC2, it really does fly a great ballistic path... the 120 on the other hand seems to do it in a more "shallow" manner...

 

In fact my biggest concern in FC2 for the Flanker is the ET issue that i posted above... Considering the missile no longer has any chance of a standoff maddog capability, the least it could have is proper kinematic range when you do get into a chase position... something id love to see considered for a patch, unless of course there are specific reasons for why the ET lacks legs this way...

Edited April 9, 2010 by Breakshot

[RedTiger]

Sort of regarding the previous post from Breakshot, has anything been tweaked regarding how missiles behave when launced high and fast? That always mattered in FC, but something seems to have changed to make it even more effective.

 

Last night I was testing the regular R-27 on the Fulcrum against friendly fighter acting as drones. I wanted fighters because I wanted something actually capable of evading a missile. If launched around 12,000 m and well over mach 1, those R-27s were easily killing stuff at twice RMAX. Again, I understand that long range kills have always been possible launching high vs. high.

[Raven434th]

to be honest. now i will teach my dog to push buttons on command. i stear the plane, move the coursor, but then the next 4 steps will do my dog. and giess what. the way this semi sim is presented, my dog will even make kills with the new f15c aim120c-5 combination. nothing to it.

 

He he...I'm sorry,but I just loved that statement....got a real chuckle.....he he.I want a photo of that too btw!!!

[Exorcet]

What do you guys think? Perhaps something that was missed out in FC2 missile revamps? Could be good to have the ET do what it was meant to do in rear aspect, and actually "catch" bandits as it should... because right now, in a chase scenario they still lack the legs quite bad due to the above issue...

 

I too would expect similar performance, however on the tail chase scenario, I haven't had a problem with ET (granted, it's rare that I'm in the correct position).

 

I once chased a guy at Vmax, full afterburn, for a few miles down low (definitely < 20,000 feet). I got a seeker lock, tried waiting a couple of seconds to decrese range and up Pk, but at that point, we were going the same speed, so I just launched. I got the kill and he didn't even try to evade, so it looks like the missile has enough range for runners. The seeker is more a limit than the fuel/flight range [from this example].

[Breakshot]

Yes you got him at Rmax and it worked, but more often than not you have to get much closer... def well within the envelope to have a decent chance (which usually becomes much less than 8km at SL which is peanuts IMO for a missile of the size of ET)

 

Also remember that the Rmax u got is based on the low perfomance of the ET which we are discussing. The Rmax parameters represent that too...

[Fahhh]

The fact about the seeker being a limit is true... but still, the missile should have almost the same range as an ER. This means a few km more when chasing someone, and in a crowded sky, this could be the difference between getting a nice kill, or getting splashed by someone else's missile. I'm hoping, ED didn't reduce the range in an effort to make the ET less of the 'uber-missile' it was in FC 1.12. A better tweaked and changed seeker could have done the job, While retaining it's main advantage - the long burn motor.

[GGTharos]

The Rmax will shrink considerably in a tailchase if your bandit is fast.

[SEFalcon]

Guys, we must stop this talk because f15c is in big ADVANTAGE. Chek this before continue your talk: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=874992#post874992

[104th_Crunch]

Sort of regarding the previous post from Breakshot, has anything been tweaked regarding how missiles behave when launced high and fast? That always mattered in FC, but something seems to have changed to make it even more effective.

 

Last night I was testing the regular R-27 on the Fulcrum against friendly fighter acting as drones. I wanted fighters because I wanted something actually capable of evading a missile. If launched around 12,000 m and well over mach 1, those R-27s were easily killing stuff at twice RMAX. Again, I understand that long range kills have always been possible launching high vs. high.

 

When it comes to speed of the missile and launching plane, it is not modelled in FC. If your plane is slow or fast, the missile will launch off the rails at the same speeds. The current engine is limited that way but I am sure we will see more AFM for missiles in DCS.

 

As for altitude, I am not sure if that was tweaked, but since missile performance was, thrust, chaff resistance, drag, etc. maybe you are just seeing the effects of that.

[X-man]

I cant find many issues with the FC2 Su-27. It's just as good as the FC1 version :D

[Boberro]

Of course. Anyone who has "driven" well Su-27 in FC1, will do same now.

[MoGas]

Guys, we must stop this talk because f15c is in big ADVANTAGE. Chek this before continue your talk: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=874992#post874992

 

Sorry Falcon, but I guess youre signature doesen't work for u :)

 

:smilewink:

[Teknetinium]

ERs speed saves Su-27, I guise the Russian missile engineers were not that bad;) Brakeshot has a point that the ETs should have longer legs. F-15 can distinguish friendly jammers where is the prove that Su-27 cant? countdown on impact for Russian birds. That F-15 turns better at low speeds then Su-27 is confirmed to be fixed in next patch. I hope some of this things that are mentioned will be considered on till we are undergoing more testing.

 

I would like to point out the biggest success whit 2.0. Fair Game!!! Its not possible anymore for individuals to exploit the game while others are not aware of what they are doing. A big thank you to ED for the possibility of integrity check, I hope soon enough majority of squads will reach a consensus over what files are not allowed to get tweaked.

 

So lets have a cup of tea for that Su-27 fanboys, F-15 fanboys, almost forgot MIG-29 Ramboboys :)

Edited April 9, 2010 by Teknetinium

[SEFalcon]

Sorry Falcon, but I guess youre signature doesen't work for u :)

 

:smilewink:

 

1. With you 1vs1 anytime

2. My sig mean for you just like that

3. im saw your sig on the sky before few days near Sukhumi. You write with flares but... pooooff MoGas :music_whistling:

4. if you are f15c aces, why you are so quiet and save secret about IFF if you are REAL TESTER

5. ...

6. ...

 

Please, without sarcasm...

[GGTharos]

:drunk:

 

So lets have a cup of tea for that Su-27 fanboys and F-15 fanboys.