ERI In Multiplayer

[Boberro]

Caesar's Ghost........9 pages :music_whistling:

 

Set in options 50 posts for 1 page and you see only 3rd page :D

 

This also brings up the problem that no one mentioned before. What if you want to fly the F-15 but do not want to use ERI? If ERI or what ever mod is forced onto the clients through the integrity check, should you not at least give the client the opportunity to say if he wants it or not?

 

Who would like to fly without IRST on Ru plane? ;)

[Grimes]

 

If you look at available scores in RAF stats there's exactly 8 people with kill ratio above 2, that among hundreds. And all of them fly russian planes, vast majority of the others are 1:1 or less.

 

Stats are an interesting lot, while they are an accurate representation of the numbers involved, they don't always take other factors into effect (or buildings hogging half the kills). For instance one cannot ignore the stats are from the squad named "Russian Air Force". Also the server is in Russia. One would think they would prefer to fly their aircraft more than the F-15. Another factor is aircraft availability compared to each other. Some missions have relativity equal numbers for both sides, others try to make it interesting offering only a handful of a certain airframe. If I remember correctly (maybe Case still has the data), but in FC1.12 the F-15 was a massive killer. It has the most flight time, most kills, most missiles spammed, and best K/D ratio. If we had stats on all of the major western servers I'm sure it would still be true today.

 

 

This also brings up the problem that no one mentioned before. What if you want to fly the F-15 but do not want to use ERI? If ERI or what ever mod is forced onto the clients through the integrity check, should you not at least give the client the opportunity to say if he wants it or not?

 

Interesting point. I guess the options available would be to not IC the actual ERI files or to IC them and the player chooses to live with it or chooses not to join the server. Its impossible to please everyone.

 

Personally I think the community would be better off if we had some servers running a set defined mod and other servers running the default game. Ultimately the community would be best off with several mods and a few "high level teamwork required" servers.

[Case]

If I remember correctly (maybe Case still has the data), but in FC1.12 the F-15 was a massive killer. It has the most flight time, most kills, most missiles spammed, and best K/D ratio. If we had stats on all of the major western servers I'm sure it would still be true today.

I still have the data.

 

Interesting point. I guess the options available would be to not IC the actual ERI files or to IC them and the player chooses to live with it or chooses not to join the server. Its impossible to please everyone.

Well, what I was thinking about was having the export.lua script check for a file on the client side that says if he wants to run ERI or not.

[Pilotasso]

Stats are an interesting lot, while they are an accurate representation of the numbers involved, they don't always take other factors into effect (or buildings hogging half the kills). For instance one cannot ignore the stats are from the squad named "Russian Air Force". Also the server is in Russia. One would think they would prefer to fly their aircraft more than the F-15. Another factor is aircraft availability compared to each other. Some missions have relativity equal numbers for both sides, others try to make it interesting offering only a handful of a certain airframe. If I remember correctly (maybe Case still has the data), but in FC1.12 the F-15 was a massive killer. It has the most flight time, most kills, most missiles spammed, and best K/D ratio. If we had stats on all of the major western servers I'm sure it would still be true today.

 

If you look at the link case just provided, youll see average triple kill figures of the top aces flying Mig and SU (Only Break and myself break that rule). Similar figure for 169. The top scorers were almost always mig drivers. So I still think evidence shows the feeling towards F-15 are unfounded. Also unfounded is ERI making much of a dent in this scenario since the tactics and numbers dont show any change of notice, globally.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Pilotasso

[RIPTIDE]

If you look at the link case just provided, youll see average triple kill figures of the top aces flying Mig and SU (Only Break and myself break that rule). Similar figure for 169. The top scorers were almost always mig drivers. So I still think evidence shows the feeling towards F-15 are unfounded. Also unfounded is ERI making much of a dent in this scenario since the tactics and numbers dont show any change of notice, globally.

Its the link for the 51st Server Stats. Not entirely representative of all servers where a lot of F-15s would fly.

 

I wonder is the link to the common stats for the 4 servers still available?

 

http://www.51st.org/common/ Its down :(

[RIPTIDE]

Anywya.. this is all juvenile.

 

Somebody put up a export.lua file that servers can agree on.

 

-- Include the Eagle radar improvements

dofile("./Config/export/ERI_radar.lua")

^^So this in Export file along with the default ERI_radar.lua should do it?

[Pilotasso]

RIPTIDE you are a relatively new addition to the community, I flew all servers every since the game was launched into the market. And regardless of which server the mig was preferred, 169, 104 to name a few of the western ones. ;)

 

people will take the fighter that grants them the most kills regardless of nationality.

[RIPTIDE]

RIPTIDE you are a relatively new addition to the community,

Where's my welcome beer? ;)

people will take the fighter that grants them the most kills regardless of nationality.

 

 

I don't find that to be true. A lot of people stick to whatever platform they like or whatever platform they are irrationally a fanboy of, whatever the outcome.

 

Now unless you are naive, and I hope you wouldn't be since you are a long member of community, you surely see the lines been drawn. This forum and community is teeming to the brim with irrational fanboys that fly whatever airframe they do even if they get whipped in it.

 

Anyway, it would be great if we could get back to ERI and such and what needs to be done to make it secure and easily ModMan'd... In fact I'm wondering why this thread needs to exist afterall except been a quick acid test of peoples feelings.

Edited August 7, 2010 by RIPTIDE

[Pilotasso]

Where's my welcome beer? ;)

 

 

 

This forum and community is teeming to the brim with irrational fanboys that fly whatever airframe they do even if they get whipped in it.

 

 

Not to discard your opinion on this but I disagree. I have seen people choosing F-15's to try taking advantage of the AMRAAM however the (very) few of us who bothered to master it against all odds in FC1 are the only ones who know how properly use it. 95% of the players online get whipped in Fc2 no matter the aircraft they fly simply because the game has changed to the point none of their former tactics work, and are to this day still adjusting to the new reality. I have predicted this every since ED announced changes to the missiles. ;)

[Frostie]

If you look at the link case just provided, youll see average triple kill figures of the top aces flying Mig and SU (Only Break and myself break that rule). Similar figure for 169. The top scorers were almost always mig drivers. So I still think evidence shows the feeling towards F-15 are unfounded. Also unfounded is ERI making much of a dent in this scenario since the tactics and numbers dont show any change of notice, globally.

The Mig was the most popular aircraft in FC1 because of its allround abilities, Actives, ET and EOS. When combined with a mountain map with AWACS this was a really enjoyable way for a lot of players and easy to rack up kills. But against an F-15 that could launch in TWS at high altitude and stay out of range of the usual low MiG tactic, the MiG would more often than not, lose.

 

To narrow stats down to make your case by ignoring the none triple kill scores is for your own gain while actually not being a fair point.

What you should maybe notice is that the pilots that perform well in Rus birds have racked up an even better k/d in the F-15.

 

One of the biggest problems in FC1 for the F-15 was the AMRAAM's lack of speed compared to the 77, this has now been addressed in FC2 to make a truly powerful platform.

 

For the most part ERI doesn't give any great advantage to the F-15 but by general understanding puts it more inline with its reallife counterpart, and also makes those TWS shots a little less troublesome. ERI doesn't bother me its what it can also be made to do that needs to be understood, why risk this change when its merely perceived as a cosmetic difference?

Edited August 7, 2010 by Frostie

[Vecko]

Is it really fair to constantly improve one side only?If yes, if that improvements meet real word ,what about realistic improvement for" the other side" then ? If Mig 29C is truly capable for TWS shoot and Russians planes do have countdown to the impact time on HUD(i think Soviet wrote something about that before), well, i am sure that most of LOMAC pilots with red star on their wings would like to see this on servers...

Once again , i (and many other players obviously) think that ERI and LEAVU are exelents addons but ,in current situation, their use on public servers are simply not god idea.

There is a real danger for community to split apart and online events become F15 vs F15 only, with several strikers and kamovs around... Many of you will agree that we allready have this picture on some servers.

 

And after all,If we eliminate nationality factor(and maybe some strange subconscious wish for feeding ego of 3 weeks lockon pilots) ,why would any of us take Mig (or maybe Flanker?!) slot?\

Yes , i remember one powerful reason...

[104th_Crunch]

... ERI doesn't bother me its what it can also be made to do that needs to be understood, why risk this change when its merely perceived as a cosmetic difference?

 

If you file check export.lua and the actual ERI files, ERI cannot be made to do anything different than what it does now. If you tried to join with a modified ERI you would fail the check. You do not introduce any more chance of cheating as you cannot tamper with the files. There is no risk of anything in terms of cheating.

[GGTharos]

Actually Vecko, what could be improved was. Providing a timer for the russian planes MIGHT be possible with LEAVU, but not guaranteed (there is no way to detect a missile being launched other than detecting that you suddenly have a missile missing from inventory). TWS simply cannot be added. A russian-themed fighter datalink could be added to LEAVU though for Su-27.

 

There are some radar things that can be added to flanker with ERI - specifically, radar memory to help you keep a lock. Unfortunately, ERI was locked down to F-15s for now due to complaints about it being used by other aircraft.

 

As for it not being a good idea? I think this 'community split' thing is a gross overreaction. Flanker pilots fly flankers because they like flankers. Don't like being the underdog?

I'll say it again ... if you want fair instead of realistic, there are arcade air combat shooters, or at the least you have the option of restricting aircraft choice on your server. Want fair? Make everyone fly the same plane, same payload. No choices. That is fair.

 

Seriously, should I start whining that flanker's turning ability should be porked because F-15's cannot keep up with it? I think not.

 

Is it really fair to constantly improve one side only?If yes, if that improvements meet real word ,what about realistic improvement for" the other side" then ? If Mig 29C is truly capable for TWS shoot and Russians planes do have countdown to the impact time on HUD(i think Soviet wrote something about that before), well, i am sure that most of LOMAC pilots with red star on their wings would like to see this on servers...

Once again , i (and many other players obviously) think that ERI and LEAVU are exelents addons but ,in current situation, their use on public servers are simply not god idea.

There is a real danger for community to split apart and online events become F15 vs F15 only, with several strikers and kamovs around... Many of you will agree that we allready have this picture on some servers.

 

And after all,If we eliminate nationality factor(and maybe some strange subconscious wish for feeding ego of 3 weeks lockon pilots) ,why would any of us take Mig (or maybe Flanker?!) slot?\

Yes , i remember one powerful reason...

[RIPTIDE]

Is it really fair to constantly improve one side only?If yes, if that improvements meet real word ,what about realistic improvement for" the other side" then ? If Mig 29C is truly capable for TWS shoot and Russians planes do have countdown to the impact time on HUD(i think Soviet wrote something about that before), well, i am sure that most of LOMAC pilots with red star on their wings would like to see this on servers...

Once again , i (and many other players obviously) think that ERI and LEAVU are exelents addons but ,in current situation, their use on public servers are simply not god idea.

There is a real danger for community to split apart and online events become F15 vs F15 only, with several strikers and kamovs around... Many of you will agree that we allready have this picture on some servers.

 

And after all,If we eliminate nationality factor(and maybe some strange subconscious wish for feeding ego of 3 weeks lockon pilots) ,why would any of us take Mig (or maybe Flanker?!) slot?\

Yes , i remember one powerful reason...

The problem is that Yoda has made mods for F-15's Nobody has made realism add-ons for Su/MiG, hence the whining...

 

[Vecko]

You trying to increase your post counter Rip or what?

[Boberro]

Is it really fair to constantly improve one side only?If yes, if that improvements meet real word ,what about realistic improvement for" the other side" then ? If Mig 29C is truly capable for TWS shoot and Russians planes do have countdown to the impact time on HUD(i think Soviet wrote something about that before), well, i am sure that most of LOMAC pilots with red star on their wings would like to see this on servers...

Once again , i (and many other players obviously) think that ERI and LEAVU are exelents addons but ,in current situation, their use on public servers are simply not god idea.

There is a real danger for community to split apart and online events become F15 vs F15 only, with several strikers and kamovs around... Many of you will agree that we allready have this picture on some servers.

 

And after all,If we eliminate nationality factor(and maybe some strange subconscious wish for feeding ego of 3 weeks lockon pilots) ,why would any of us take Mig (or maybe Flanker?!) slot?\

Yes , i remember one powerful reason...

 

If someone took care about ERI there would be addons for Su - I mean that missile counter. It really NEEDS to be added as it is IMHO critical feature. I'd like to see that together with other things for Su and F-15. Anyway even with much more real Su features, it'll die by F15 :)

[RIPTIDE]

You trying to increase your post counter Rip or what?

oh noes.. Vecko gave me neg rep... :helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie::surrender:

[Vecko]

oh noes.. Vecko gave me neg rep... :helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie::surrender:

 

:thumbup:

Sure, all for spamers, trols...:) and post counters...

 

Admins, feel free to remove this...

[GGTharos]

Alright, back on topic ... let's not get -that- personal.

[Insanatrix]

Pretty much all I gather from the 13+ pages of this is that people think ERI is somehow gonna make F-15's do backflips, pew pew their laser cannons and a plethora of other oddball idea's. Then there's also the idea of cheating through modifying ERI's script files which can of course be IC'd.

 

Let me sum this up, If your afraid that cheating can be done THROUGH the IC then it can be done to any file that is IC'd including the precious missile tables. Complaining that ERI opens up a loophole is unfounded because obviously the loophole is there no matter what you IC.

 

Secondly as far the whole pew pew thing goes, It's really getting annoying hearing the argument about the automation making you somehow superhuman. You do realize that all it's doing is something that my finger can do in about a second. The goal of it is to automize it so you don't have to worry about micro'ing your hat switch constantly just like in the real thing. If you seriously think that something as small as that is going to give the F-15 some superhuge advantage, especially when you have TWS and 120's on the F-15, you might want to reconsider. The whole notion that it somehow turns anyone in the F-15 into some superhuman or that it even affects balance is ludicrous.

 

As someone should have said long ago, If you have a problem with the F-15 and its abilities well thats kind of tough because it's real and these are it's abilities and if your too lazy to learn how to beat it well It's your problem. I hardly see how ERI can make it any more invincible or harder to kill than it already is and I think most of you forget one important point. It's not the plane but the person in the plane controlling it that makes the difference.

[Pilotasso]

LOL nice sig...

 

I reaffirm mine too.

[Vekkinho]

If someone took care about ERI there would be addons for Su - I mean that missile counter. It really NEEDS to be added as it is IMHO critical feature. I'd like to see that together with other things for Su and F-15. Anyway even with much more real Su features, it'll die by F15 :)

 

What missile counter?

 

:huh:

 

no such thing with Su-27P IRL...but there's the stopwatch...just as in FC Flanker!

[Boberro]

What missile counter?

 

:huh:

 

no such thing with Su-27P IRL...but there's the stopwatch...just as in FC Flanker!

Maybe I am wrong but I've seen that in Su-27SK version (export).

[Sov13t]

*sigh* http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=872055&postcount=11

 

S is in FC2... not P... S. Why S?

 

P does not HAVE ground modes at ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 7, 2010 by Sov13t

[Frostie]

Secondly as far the whole pew pew thing goes, It's really getting annoying hearing the argument about the automation making you somehow superhuman. You do realize that all it's doing is something that my finger can do in about a second. The goal of it is to automize it so you don't have to worry about micro'ing your hat switch constantly just like in the real thing. If you seriously think that something as small as that is going to give the F-15 some superhuge advantage, especially when you have TWS and 120's on the F-15, you might want to reconsider. The whole notion that it somehow turns anyone in the F-15 into some superhuman or that it even affects balance is ludicrous.

 

As someone should have said long ago, If you have a problem with the F-15 and its abilities well thats kind of tough because it's real and these are it's abilities and if your too lazy to learn how to beat it well It's your problem. I hardly see how ERI can make it any more invincible or harder to kill than it already is and I think most of you forget one important point. It's not the plane but the person in the plane controlling it that makes the difference.

What is the pew pew thing, where in the last 9 pages have you seen anyone claiming that this mod will make the F-15 pilots superhuman and affecting balance?