The F-15 and MP gameplay

[GGTharos]

Same reason they are LPI: Each pulse that hits your plane may have different chirp, different PRF, different frequency, pulses arriving at relatively random intervals - it's just difficult to keep up with.

 

The catch is ... your missile is still MSA, at least for now :P

 

And if you are (AESA), how would that help?

[Moa]

Pilotasso, MiG drivers don't know, that we have not a silent kill on HOJ anymore. ;)

 

Yes they do, and they use it (I've talked with someone who does at least).

 

ps. HoJ is the easiest thing in the world to do from a sensor perspective. Lock and follow the specified broadcasting signal. Unfortunately the pure pursuit course that results is inefficient and gives poor range. You could try and boost the efficiency/range by using AoJ to get target slew-rate (estimate approx range and heading from an assumed target speed). With todays embedded microprocessor and DSP power this kind of thing is straightforward (but wouldn't have been back in the day). The complicated bit comes when the jammer goes off (which is the unknown bit).

Edited August 23, 2010 by Moa

[Pilotasso]

well I have been waiting for burn through range. Fortunately this hasn't affected me much.

[Teknetinium]

Now we have total realism. Soviet birds from 70s and updated F15s from 2001. That's realistic if we fight in Iraq. Not in Crimean.

 

We still dont know we might get only Nevada terrain and the Ukrainian Su-27 whit no radar brought to US. That will be accuret as hell.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Teknetinium

[nscode]

It would be nice to have a time slider, to adjust the time-frame (year) simulated :)

[MAD MAX]

Actually it is real F-15C tactics are to come off a high (40000-50000 feet) perch, supersonic, and launch at long range. I know of at least one ex-soviet air force that practices a similar tactic with MiG-29A's, though against F-16's.

 

Please keep in mind that there is a reason why there is a contest to make the highest flying, fastest flying fighter ... and it is not to get to guns range :)

 

Then you will fly alone on this sim... on F-15 with plasma gun.

 

Now we have total realism. Soviet birds from 70s and updated F15s from 2001. That's realistic if we fight in Iraq. Not in Crimean.

 

We still dont know we might get only Nevada terrain and the Ukrainian Su-27 whit no radar brought to US. That will be accuret as hell.

 

Yes, +1

[GGTharos]

It is a simulator. There is no plasma gun.

 

Then you will fly alone on this sim... on F-15 with plasma gun.

[Pilotasso]

It would be nice to have a time slider, to adjust the time-frame (year) simulated :)

 

Nothing stops mission builders to make such missions even if no such sliders are present.

[MAD MAX]

It is a simulator. There is no plasma gun.

 

It is a simulator made by GG and company and Greatest Yoda!

AIM-120 and FM rockets now its a plasma gun on F-15.

[Teknetinium]

Then you will fly alone on this sim... on F-15 with plasma gun.

 

 

GG dont fly online he is testing data-linking :)

Edited August 23, 2010 by Teknetinium

[104th_Crunch]

It is a simulator made by GG and company and Greatest Yoda!

AIM-120 and FM rockets now its a plasma gun on F-15.

 

Sorry Max. Here you have 2 gentleman that give their FREE time to help ED and you make such comments. I can't agree with you.

 

This is a sim first. Multiplayer balance comes second. MP balance is for Quake and HAWX.

 

Could ED have updated Su-27 and MiG more for FC2... yes, but time and money is limited.

 

Let us wait hopefully for DCS:Su-27 and DCS-F-15, then you can make comments if something is modelled wrong. For now, we enjoy what we have and try to make the best of it using the mission editor, like Grimes suggests.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Crunch

[Moa]

Now we have total realism. Soviet birds from 70s and updated F15s from 2001. That's realistic if we fight in Iraq. Not in Crimean.

 

We still dont know we might get only Nevada terrain and the Ukrainian Su-27 whit no radar brought to US. That will be accuret as hell.

 

The F-15 from 2001 has datalink and other improvements (well, not without LEAVU2). It doesn't even have nav mode working properly, nor any of its targetting pods, nor JHMCS ....

 

Yes, it is a shame that the Su-27 has not been upgraded in the game (or, the more advanced variants modelled), but it is not like that is the only thing that's not included.

 

There is no conspiracy to disable the Russian aircraft vis a vis the US stuff in the game. In fact, the AMRAAM etc are still undermodelled so the F-15 afficianados could argue the opposite.

 

The fact is the developers have limited time and budget, and they have to work within the constraints of the existing system since no-one can afford the time and effort to re-write *everything* from scratch (DCS being a valiant attempt, but even that still carries some trade-offs). Plus, they're working with crufty old code in C++ and Lua, hardly the most productive development tools these days (plus, to extend it to multithreading is herculean/suicidal depending on your point-of-view).

 

If you would like to give the developers several million dollars and five years (a realistic budget and timescale for software, although a pittance compared to StarCraft II's budget and timescale) then you might get the Su-27 you want. Until then, keep reminding yourself, "I can kill Eagles!" :)

Edited August 23, 2010 by Moa

[Insanatrix]

AFAIK 120C uses INS guidance up until terminal phase. If there was a realistic implementation of ECM and jammers, Things would be a hell of a lot more unbalanced than you think they are now quite frankly.

[3Sqn_TomAce]

Stay on topic, it's about F15 and gameplay not what is or isn't used in real life airforces.

[Grimes]

This is a sim first. Multiplayer balance comes second. MP balance is for Quake and HAWX.

 

 

Believe it or not we have balance too. Traditional weapon balance requires tweaking the physical properties of the weapon at multiple levels to so every weapon has an advantage with a clear method of countering such advantage. We don't do quite do that. What we can do in sims to balance things out is to change the world and what exists within the world. Ka-50s vs F-15s isn't balanced unless the Ka-50 starts in the air hovering near the F-15 spawn base. That is why for every other scenario out there we add fighters to deal with F-15s.

 

Every ying has its yang. I just think there is no fun in it when every ying (F15) there is a... ying (enemy F-15).

[Insanatrix]

Stay on topic, it's about F15 and gameplay not what is or isn't used in real life airforces.

 

Actually I just stated that with the current implementation you have much higher or better of a chance than you probably should IRL.

[GGTharos]

Mad Max, we both tested that we could evade this missile by notching. We were both successful. I am now rusty at it, but a little practice and I could evade 120C's from any range over 6-8nm, at least IIRC, as long as I'm not ridiculously over-sped, and I can force look-down.

 

It isn't, and shouldn't be an ease missile to evade. You will find the R-77 to be more or less at difficult to evade. I suggest that you try dodging some R-77's for a little while, instead of 120's, and I think you'll see they received some respect also.

 

It is a simulator made by GG and company and Greatest Yoda!

AIM-120 and FM rockets now its a plasma gun on F-15.

[3Sqn_TomAce]

Just a general comment and not directed at you Insanatrix

[Insanatrix]

Just a general comment and not directed at you Insanatrix

NP just thought I would clarify my post anyways a bit more as it kind of sounded hostile to begin with.

[Steel Jaw]

Game balance is for people that can't handle realism.

 

That's it Falcon. Right on the money bud.

 

Your comment should appear as the thread title.

 

ANYBODY opposed to this truism

 

Game balance is for people that can't handle realism

 

is in some kinda lite weight GAMING fantasy world.

[104th_Crunch]

Believe it or not we have balance too. Traditional weapon balance requires tweaking the physical properties of the weapon at multiple levels to so every weapon has an advantage with a clear method of countering such advantage. We don't do quite do that. What we can do in sims to balance things out is to change the world and what exists within the world. Ka-50s vs F-15s isn't balanced unless the Ka-50 starts in the air hovering near the F-15 spawn base. That is why for every other scenario out there we add fighters to deal with F-15s.

 

Every ying has its yang. I just think there is no fun in it when every ying (F15) there is a... ying (enemy F-15).

 

Yes, worded much better than me thanks. Balance is not in the way things are simulated. You don't make the AIM-120 the same as a R-77 if all information shows that the AIM-120 is better. You can, however, try to balance through mission design.

[Krippz]

Yes, worded much better than me thanks. Balance is not in the way things are simulated. You don't make the AIM-120 the same as a R-77 if all information shows that the AIM-120 is better. You can, however, try to balance through mission design.

 

 

But trying to balance the game through mission design is not the right course of action in my opinion. I think we are taking a little away from the virtual pilots here. A good Su-27 virtual pilot would beat an average F-15C pilot any day of the week. I mean you said it pretty well yourself a few posts back:

 

 

Regardless of how you design the mission, it doesn't matter in some ways. The onus is not completely on the mission, it is actually more on the player. For the 999th time in these forums...

It's how you play the mission ® :)

 

I think we should focus more on having realistic operations, taskings and realistic composition of units, etc with respect to mission design.

[Steel Jaw]

A good Su-27 virtual pilot would beat an average F-15C pilot any day of the week.

 

 

Or vice versa.

 

History has clearly indicated that it's the pilot who makes the difference.

[shu77]

That's it Falcon. Right on the money bud.

 

Your comment should appear as the thread title.

 

ANYBODY opposed to this truism

 

Game balance is for people that can't handle realism

 

is in some kinda lite weight GAMING fantasy world.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again

[mvsgas]

:D