Mjoy16 or Leo Bodnar?

[leafer]

First, I do not know anything about electronics so forgive my ignorance. I will be converting serial port Suncom SFS HOTAS to USB and I'm guessing I'll need one for stick and one for throttle? How difficult would it be to build an Mjoy and will it work in Win7 64bit or should I just fork out the cash and go for Leo Bodnar's BU0836?

Edited September 30, 2010 by leafer

[Joe Kurr]

Mjoy behaves like a normal joystick, so it should work in Win7.

You can have the mjoy module provide the axes and sliders, and keep the keyboard-interface in the stick intact so you can still program the buttons on the stick.

 

But in order to build an mjoy module, you need to have some basic knowledge about electronic components to place them correctly, and you will need to program the AVR controller yourself.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Joe Kurr

[CyBerkut]

You could probably cram everything on to a single Bodnar board. There are a boat load of inputs:

http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836X/ (The non soldering version that has no need for matrix diodes)

 

You'll need to count up your input types and see if one board can accomodate all that. (Don't forget the red buttons on the base, if you want to use them as USB device inputs)

 

If you went the single board route, you would probably need to come up with a cable/connection scheme between the Stick and throttle that has more conductors than what is already there.

 

Some threads of possible interest:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=471844

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2706511/1.html

 

As I recall, the GranBichus thread over on the X-Plane forums was epic, and definitely worth a look, too.

[Deadman]

I sent you a pm with some links on other peoples work :thumbup:

[leafer]

Ak! What sort of programming is invloved here?

 

The idea was to keep cost significantly below any of the current HOTAS out in the market today but that idea went the way of poo-poo with the shipping cost from the States to Thailand. So, if I could help it, the Bodnar's board would be the last resort.

 

Might as well try building the Mjoy since I'll need the knowledge for my rudder and my shelfed-collective projects. If anything the fact that I'll end up with a unique F-18 stick will comfort me. :D

 

I'll post pics.

Edited September 30, 2010 by leafer

[CrashEd]

Note that the Leo Bodnar card does not work with 64-bit Win7 (or any other 64-bit OS for that matter). At least it didn't when I last looked at one. They may have newer drivers now thought, so it's worth checking if you do have a 64-bit OS ;)

[CyBerkut]

Bodnar ships from the U.K., worldwide for £4.99 ( = 7.89 USD = 240.89 THB as of this writing ). I don't know how that stacks up, cost-wise for you, though.

[leafer]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=471283&postcount=11

 

Can someone explain in simple english what's wrong with the SFS because that's the one otw to me.

[sweinhart3]

Bodnar ships from the U.K., worldwide for £4.99 ( = 7.89 USD = 240.89 THB as of this writing ). I don't know how that stacks up, cost-wise for you, though.

 

Wowsers. For that price you can buy a complete hotas. Not WH of course but that is expensive. Better off just ripping apart a cheap joystick. If your a little tech savy and dont mind soldering, there are plenty of do it yourself threads on creating usb joysticks. A $5 microcontroller and some diodes and wiring are really all thats needed hardware wise and there are several examples of programming out there. The catch though is you would have to program the chip yourself and a programmer is like $100. But if you have one you could program any number of chips.

[Sokol1_br]

leafer,

 

BU836 = VW Golf - Mjoy = Fiat UNO. :)

 

I did some use of Mjoy (8 and 16) and BU0836, rewiring to USB old gameport josyticks, like CH F16 Combatstik, Ch Pro Throtle, CH Pro pedal, CH Fligstick, Thrusmaster FCS/WCS, Suncon F-15 Eagle and Suncon SFS throttle.

 

I did this because where I live one X-52 is sold for 320 U$ or more, Cougar for 500 U$, X65F for 600 U$... Wh probable hit 1000U$...

 

Some things:

 

Note that the Leo Bodnar card does not work with 64-bit Win7 (or any other 64-bit OS for that matter).

 

BU0836 with firmware subsequent to 12/2008 work in Windows 7/64 bit. I tested.

 

Mjoy 8 or 16 too. I tested boot.

 

Mjoy is a old (2004) DIY project, but still work fine in actual OS and games.

 

Is difficult to build one?

No, require ability to make PCB board (Google it), weld components - so, if you are able to rewire one joystick, you are able to build one Mjoy.

 

The catch though is you would have to program the chip yourself and a programmer is like $100.

 

No 100 U$ programmer (hardware) is required - you just build a LPT cable with 5 U$ of components to transfer .HEX to ATMEGA chip.

 

Ak! What sort of programming is invloved here?

 

No programmer knowledge is required: you simply need to record supplied .HEX file into ATMEGA chip. This is like setup and record a CD/DVD in Nero.

 

Components to build Mjoy is cheap - the more expensive is ATMEGA chip (~7 U$ in Ebay). For about 20 U$ I build one Mjoy. Depend on prices in his local market.

 

Good topic about build Mjoys, in english (the best ones are in russian...:P):

http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/mjoy16-usb-avr-joystick-t726.html?sid=bd517b71462fa1c1f6a44cf3e8e9a200

Please notice that usually the first assembly attempt to build one for most people result in failure...:D

Advice: For Mjoy8 avoid use of original Mindaugas firmware/PCB, use Mercury versions.

 

So, if £21,98 (with worldwide shipping) for one BU0836 is expensive to you, try Mjoy's.

 

If is acceptable prefers BU0836.

For rewire sticks I prefer non X version - because it means less wires inside stick, and is possible fit BU inside stick base.

 

Your project is very doable, require some planing and lot of patience. :smilewink:

 

Sokol1

[aaron886]

BU0836 is absolutely phenomenal. I use the BU0836A in my center stick and fly with it almost every day for at least an hour. Never had a problem... simply fantastic, easy to use.

[leafer]

Sokol1,

 

You are the man and I'm sold on the BU0836! A couple of questions. Should I get one for the throttle and one for the stick? What's the difference between 10 bit inputs and 12 bit inputs versions? I'm sure more questions will follow once the project got under way.

 

We're both victims of electronic gaming devices price gouging. In Thailand the X65X = 584USD, X52 = 289USD and Cougar = 461USD! I have a feeling the TM Warthog will be sold for 700USD. And I don't like Fiat. :D

 

Good to see you around here again.

 

Oh, it's time for me to hit the sack and won't be online again until I get to work. No Internet at home and I work graveyard.

Edited September 30, 2010 by leafer

[CyBerkut]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=471283&postcount=11

 

Can someone explain in simple english what's wrong with the SFS because that's the one otw to me.

 

I assume you are referring to this:

 

-SFS and F-15E Raptor have 2-axis, 4-buttons and 1-hat. (coolie only) In these two stick models the hat is emulated thru a non-convetional button mask, its seen as multiple button presses at once, not recognized by most modern games, they are the entry level joysticks from Suncom, not worth buying unless you plan on gutting them out to do something with them or you have an SFS throttle to convert the HAT into keystrokes.

 

First off, there's been a lot of confusion in the past over the various Suncom models and the nomenclature used. { And no, I'm not holding myself out as an expert... } In light of that, it might be best to wait and see what actually arrives at your door.

 

If you are indeed actually getting what is described in the quote above, then the potential issue is the way the hat switch is being handled inside the stick. Instead of a true hat switch, it is apparently being handled by the hat actuating some small buttons. It will require, I believe, a different wiring method to the Bodnar board than a true hat switch would. Not a major biggie, I imagine, but be aware of it. Something like that might make it more important to use diodes with the Bodnar board, if you are using one of the non-X versions.

 

Once you have it in hand, I'm sure Sokol1 will have good advice for you. He's definitely way up on the "Been there, done that" list. :)

[leafer]

The hotas should arrive in a week or two and I'll see if the buttons and switches really feel as cheap as was mentioned in another tread. I'll contact TM and see if they'd sell me some hat switches.

 

Also, thanks for the simple explanation, but you had to throw 'nomenclature' in there to mess with me didn't ya... :D

[Postal2]

hello i use One SFS F15C (same E) SFS suncom modél EAGLE , i have crate full mod with a card léo Bobnard ! and full compatible with W7 64 bits no problem !!!

 

And i use glovepie for set the buttons and directly in game ! (Fc2) .

 

If you want a picures ! no problem !

Edited September 29, 2010 by Postal2

[leafer]

Hi, I want pictures. Please... It would be very helpful if you have pictures showing the wiring but if not what you have is fine.

 

So you have the F-15 SFS stick and throttle, correct? Do the buttons and switches feel cheap to you?

 

Thank you!

[Postal2]

Hi, I want pictures. Please... It would be very helpful if you have pictures showing the wiring but if not what you have is fine.

 

So you have the F-15 SFS stick and throttle, correct? Do the buttons and switches feel cheap to you?

 

Thank you!

 

 

Yes I have no problem with the joystick and throttle with the modder card bobnard leo!

 

What happiness !!!.

 

For the pictures no problem I'll post it tomorrow! in the day .

 

 

 

You can already see here

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11653999@N02/page3/

 

the most référence for me !! i make mine same this

 

http://forums.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?209926-Suncom-F-15-and-SFS-throttle-USB-remake

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2707406/Re_Suncom_F15_BU0836_HALL_Sens.html

[aaron886]

So you have the F-15 SFS stick and throttle, correct? Do the buttons and switches feel cheap to you?

 

 

Hi, I have the SFS stick... and it feels pretty plastic-ey to me. The buttons aren't the best but not terrible. (Some of the buttons on the one I bought don't work properly, so I ended up not using it in my project.)

[leafer]

Man, pics worth thousand words. Now I know what people meant when they say those aren't true hat switches. Yow. I gotta get some hats from some where. Anyone knows where they sell decent hat switches aside from TM?

 

Thanks, People! Truly appreciate this.

[Postal2]

Ok !!

 

Here you can find quite a picture I did in my setup and the latest!

 

 

http://server.3rd-wing.net/public/Postal2/JOY%20F15c/100930_102451.jpg

 

 

and all others here: http://server.3rd-wing.net/public/Postal2/JOY%20F15c/

 

 

 

Enjoys!!!

 

 

That is if you have any questions, comments, remarks etc. .. do not hesitate!

[leafer]

Why did you choose the BU0836X over Bodnar's other ones, and you only have one BU0836X running both the stick and throttle, correct?

 

Are all the buttons and hat switches original or did you replace any of them?

 

thanks!

Edited September 30, 2010 by leafer

[brydling]

Why did you choose the BU0836X over Bodnar's other ones

 

The X is a lot easier to connect buttons to. You don't have to make a matrix with diodes to connect them. With BU0836(A) and with the joystick card that I have designed you have to make this matrix with diodes, but the design is a lot cheaper if you want to have many buttons. I have 240 buttons on my joystick card, and the cost to build the whole thing is probably around $20. Using the same method as in BU0836X, my card would have needed a lot more IC's and would not be nearly as cheap. You could of course include the matrix on the PCB and get a card that is both easy to use and cheap to build, but I don't see a problem wiring a diode in series with every switch. I also don't need a GND for every switch since I find it nicer to have only one GND line to every box, than to use two cables for every switch.

Edited September 30, 2010 by brydling

[CyBerkut]

The hotas should arrive in a week or two and I'll see if the buttons and switches really feel as cheap as was mentioned in another tread. I'll contact TM and see if they'd sell me some hat switches.

 

Also, thanks for the simple explanation, but you had to throw 'nomenclature' in there to mess with me didn't ya... :D

 

My bad!

 

I have a Suncom HOTAS that has not been modified. I haven't used it in many years, but I was contemplating doing a Bodnar based mod before we found ourselves swimming in a small sea of split throttle offerings in recent times.

 

As for the "cheap feel" issue... it's going to be one of those 'eye of the beholder' sort of things. I don't think anyone who has laid their hands upon milspec controls is going to claim that a Suncom controller is comparable. They clearly are not in that neighborhood. The higher end version(s) at least (ie. having both a coolie and castle switch on the stick), were not that shabby in my mind.

 

In any case, since you are doing this mod, you have an opportunity to upgrade components as you wish. Hopefully, the 'learning experiences' along the way won't be too painful! ;)

[CyBerkut]

Back when I was contemplating a mod for the Suncom HOTAS, I was leaning toward the BU0836X version. Not messing with adding diodes appealed enough to me to be willing to spend a bit more on it (along with the other improvements).

 

The other thing was, I was not concerned with the size of that board, versus the earlier versions. I was actually thinking of placing the BU0836X into a separate box, with the idea that it could also be used with other controllers... basically, a get more bang for the Bodnar Buck sort of approach. The Bodnar box would have the BU0836X card wired to some 25 Pin (DB-25) connectors. The converted controllers would have DB-25 connectors on their bases, and then would just be cabled up to the Bodnar Box. Later on, to switch to a Cyclic and Collective (or whatever), just move the cables over, and tweak the software. [ Note, this would probably need some pre-planning to standardize on using certain pins for given functions ]. I suspect different profiles could be stored for different controllers, but I never got that far along in analyzing/planning.

 

Not as clean/elegant as burying boards in the controller bases, but it could be useful for someone who wants to have different controller setups for different sim types.

[leafer]

Brydling,

 

Thanks for the much needed input! I just read up a bit on diodes and understand that they're there to restrict current flow in one direction but why is that needed for the switches?

 

CyBerkut,

What you said sounds great but wouldn't wiring the BU0836X to a serial port defeat the purpose of a USB mod?

 

I love the idea of having the controller board outside the stick and it has always been my plan. Take a look at a real F18 or F15 stick and note the box mounted below the grip.