Hotas Warthog or Saitek X65F Pro?

[ronht]

I spent yesterday afternoon flying Black Shark and Rise of Flight with my new Thrustmaster Warthog to see how I liked it in those sims compared to my NXT/Cubby modified Cougar and am extremely happy with the results.

 

The Thrustmaster Warthog is hands-down the best HOTAS kit released to-date.

[Bulletstop]

I have the X-65f and I love it. I do admit the Warthog looks good but I do enjoy the different force settings on different aircraft, wheather it is a Dora nine to Black Shark. I love all the Buttons and axis, so far I have not had to use the profiler software. I also love the split throttles. I ahve to say the throttle was a little stiff, but now it smooth.Just my 2 cents :).

 

 

 

Bullet

[wiltzu]

X-65F owners, how severe do you rate the "X-Y bleed" issue in different sims & planes?

[Bulletstop]

Describe it please?

 

 

 

Bullet

[Stretch]

I have no X/Y bleed. When I want my jet to go left and not up, it does exactly that.

[Bulletstop]

Same here, now I do tend to pull up while turning my head behind me, but that is operator error....

 

 

 

Bullet

[NaiOrion]

I have had no noticable bleed with mine. Very impressed with this stick, once setup with WH very user friendly.

[Joe]

 

Furthermore, I noticed this in the SimHQ's WT review: "the throttle axes feature a fixed idle detent (below which there is no throttle electrical response)... "

 

It seems to basically mean, that there´s no proper reverse thrust "section".

Quite the contrary, at least as far as I'm concerned (I wrote the SimHQ review).

 

When landing simulated aircraft, proper and precise throttle control in the bottom half of the throttle range is critical for controlling the descent rate. When the Cougar first came out, with its adjustable idle detent, users quickly figured out that it would be beneficial to make the throttle electrical response bottom out when the detent was reached. If this isn't the case, then one often finds that the throttle adjustments required to maintain landing glideslope require repeatedly moving the throttle back and forth past the idle detent. This makes precise control impossible.

 

The quick fix for this for the Cougar was to put a huge deadzone at the bottom of the throttle axis response. Later on Thrustmaster integrated the THRRNG statement into Foxy, letting one accomplish the same thing in a more flexible and elegant manner. Physically, though, the result is the same - zero electrical response at the throttle moves down into the idle detent.

 

The Warthog does the same thing, but by default without having to play around with it. However, this doesn't eliminate thrust reverser capability at all. There are four "buttons" associated with the Warthog throttles. These are virtual buttons which can be programmed in T.A.R.G.E.T.:

IDELROFF (activated when R throttle is pulled back past idle detent)

IDLELOFF (activated when R throttle is pulled back past idle detent)

DELRON (activated when R throttle is pushed forward out of idle detent)

IDLELON (activated when L throttle is pushed forward out of idle detent)

 

Furthermore, the two OFF "buttons" are also DirectX buttons (29 and 30), allowing them to be programmed directly inside of a sim.

 

These virtual buttons at the bottom of the throttle physical motion are very similar in nature to the six virtual buttons at the bottom of each of the CH Throttle Quadrant's six levers and function in the same way. The added addition is that T.A.R.G.E.T. allows a user to easily program an action when the throttle is moved out of the idle range as well as into it, without having to develop any complicated logic on their own.

 

Contrast the Warthog throttle with the throttles of the X-52, X-52 Pro, X-65F, and G940. All of these throttles have idle and afterburner detents. All of these throttles have electrical response throughout the full physical range of the axis. None of these throttles have the ability to adjust throttle response to account for the detents. In my opinion this simply means that Saitek and Logitech have given us throttles with annoying bumps in the travel range; they don't do anything useful unless their detent positions happen to correspond to throttle response in a certain sim, and they get in the way otherwise.

 

Of course the CH Pro Throttle has no detents, so it doesn't suffer from this problem.

 

Perhaps the SimHQ review did not do the best job of explaining why no electrical response below the idle detent is a good thing, but I emphatically believe that it is.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Joe

[froogle]

ok I'll chime in. I've got (or had) both; X65 and Warthog.

 

In terms of looks, they are about equal. Both setups look absolutely stunning, and if anything I think the X65 throttle wins for me in the looks department. I also preferred the X-65 throttle - it's more comfy to hold than the Warthog one and has more in the way of configurability (rotaries etc the Warthog just doesn't have).

 

In use though, the two are worlds apart. I adore the X-65 throttle, and absolutely hate the stick. It's a personal taste thing I know, but most of my flying is done in Helo's, The A-10 and old rotary engine warbirds. I just could not ever get the X-65 stick to 'feel right'. You don't realize it until you pay attention but when you fly with a moving stick, you subconsciously register the position the of the stick in the real world and balance that against what you are seeing and feeling in terms of the aircraft's response. Also, with a moving stick you apply pressure to move it to a certain point, then relax that pressure and apply a 'holding' pressure to keep it there. With the X-65 you've have to constantly apply that 'pushing' pressure, there is no concept of push then hold.

 

In terms of settings the sticks up, both are a dream to configure, even without the programming software provided by Saitek and Thrustmaster. The X-65 stick for example is so similar in layout to an F-16/A-10 stick I had it set up in minutes within DCS:A-10 to work just the way the real one does. The Warthog of course doesn't require this - it just works.

 

 

My old X-52 broke and I had to order a replacement set of sticks quick for a magazine article I'm working on. At the time the Warthog was exceptionally hard to get so i ordered the X-65. I grew to hate it very quickly and at the first opportunity ordered the warthog and sent the X-65 back.

 

 

So, there's my opinion from someone that's owned and used both and that flies a hell of a lot (I write about it).

[Le0kong]

Can someone with a X65F post a track that you played with the stick?

I'm looking to buy a HOTAS and wanted to see how well the X65F works with maneuvering the A-10C. It will be even better if the track contains some quick and high AoA maneuvers and using the slew on the TGP(to see the precision on the mini-stick), but any mission that you may have played will do too.

 

Thanks in advance. :thumbup:

[Wichid]

I've just ordered the TM Warthog HOTAS. I can't wait to get my hands on it. I'm replacing my X-52.

 

Thanks for the comments guys, your feedback and opinions are much appreciated.

[Steel Jaw]

The WH makes sense if you are going to mainly fly the HAwg. If you do not, then the A10-specific throttle is kinda silly, no?

 

I will mainly fly the F16 and what-ever the next DCS Fast Mover is, would not the x65 be better for its more generic configuration and 2 rotaries (for radar work)?

[Wichid]

I have an online friend who loves his X-65 and spends most of his time flying BMS Falcon 4. You may be right but it really depends on what your flying. I really like to fly helicopters and old plans from years gone by. I hear the X-65 stick doesn't suit this so much.

 

I ordered a TM Warthog and from what I can see the stick layout is the same as the F-16 and the throttle controls are fairly generic to be remaped. You're right though - it's without the rotaries.

[cichlidfan]

@Mower,

 

Just what you need right here.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1295210#post1295210

 

Oops, forgot you were in Canada.:D

[Mt5_Roie]

X65 vs Thustmaster Hog Joystick

 

I"m thinking of spending some cash on a nice joystick and some computer upgrades. I"ve bene looking at the Saitex X65 vs the Thustmaster Hotas. They seem like they both have the same amount of buttons but the Saitex X65 has that control pad as well that gives extra buttons.

 

I'm going to update my memory on my computer as well, along with the video card. So if I get the X65 I can afford to get memory and graphic as well. So is the thrustmaster really worth 200 dollars more then the X65?

[LostOblivion]

If you're buying it specifically for DCS: A-10C, then yes, the hog is worth it, but if you're flying a lot of other flying games as well, then I'm not sure. The hog has more buttons than the X-65, but what makes the difference is that everything is where it should be on the hog, whereas for the X-65 the buttons will not always be intuetively positioned for the A-10. You also have to take into consideration that the X-65 has force sensing, which means the stick does not move. For modern aircraft like any fighter and the A-10, it's ok, but it feels weird for games modelling old planes, like Il-2, or Rise of Flight.

 

Having said that, I have the hog, my friend has the X-65, and we're both just as happy when flying in DCS: A-10C.

Edited September 26, 2011 by LostOblivion

[Mt5_Roie]

I do fly on xplaine as well, so it would be useful there as well. Originally I was thinking of going to get the X52 Pro and do the computer updates. But if I can get the better version like the X65 and still do the updates, that would be cool.

 

Thanks for the info.

[kylania]

What LostOblivion isn't telling you is that his friend is imaginary and that's why he's OK with a stick that doesn't move. Warthog will make you popular with the ladies and you'll smell better in elevators. Guaranteed!

[cichlidfan]

What LostOblivion isn't telling you is that his friend is imaginary and that's why he's OK with a stick that doesn't move. Warthog will make you popular with the ladies and you'll smell better in elevators. Guaranteed!

 

I wanted to add something but I didn't want spoil it!:megalol:

[WRFirefox]

:megalol:

 

Sorry gents,

but now im knowing that some TMWarthog owner doesn't use their brain, or the brain is at standby modus.

"If the stick doesn't move, and the plane can be better controlled, that is never possible - that have to be stuff out of hell!!! - Helllpppp!:("

 

And then they call the Inquisitor (Darth Warthog) of the "Warthog-Empire", that steals first all of their money and make them believe, that he will destroy all "Saitek Force" on the planet.......then the great "Darth Warhog" go back to his pit-room and enjoy the force by saitek for himself!!!:music_whistling:

 

So if you are strong enough, the force-sensing will be with you! Fight with us against the dark side of the "Warthog Empire"!!!!:pilotfly:

 

Your X-65F Wing will be ready for take off!

Edited September 26, 2011 by WRFirefox