Sim so good I feinted...

[PourLeMerite]

...well virtualy feinted that is...

 

...after sorting out my aileron prob (with help from this community) I took the WARhog out for a flight.

 

If you go above around 26,000 ft the Devs had rendered the best feinting/passing-out effect ever. Verrry verrry slowly the guages started to go grey...I didn't notice at first... then the sky started to go grey the sounds also got weaker. The greyness got darker, slowly darker the edges of the screen went black...I thought S%$@ I'm passing out here...

 

...disorientated...yes I realy was !...the effect is that good! ...I dropped down to 15,000 feet...back to normal senses and vision.

 

At 15,000 feet I set the oxygen to "mask" I then went up to 32,000 ft and stayed there for 30 mins or more !

 

Super modelling and a thumbs up to the Development team for the intricate details in this fabulous Sim that make it so real. :thumbup: Good luck with the finished product.

 

PS. In the manual P154 it says...

 

"3. Emergency Lever. This red-colored lever has positions for normal operation, mask test, and emergency. Given the nature of this simulation, only normal mode is modeled."

 

...in that case how do you explain the above....as when "mask" air was employed I went up to 32,000 feet ! where-as I couldn't before !

Edited November 13, 2010 by PourLeMerite
addittional info out of the manual

[GGTharos]

The interesting thing is that in reality you would not realize you are suffering from hypoxia. You would not have any warnings of the 'I am fainting' type - you would not be able to tell or make good decisions. Consider the fact that you can do this to be a bonus in the sim.

 

For the above reason, procedures to check oxygen levels and equipment and set them correctly are mandatory. After you get hypoxia, you're likely dead because you just won't know what's happening to you. This killed an entire airliner's worth of people not too long ago.

[HemingwayFE]

You went hypoxic. Cool that they modeled that with Time of Useful Consciousness. Airliners pressurize somewhere around 5-6000 feet cabin altitude. It's for passenger comfort and also some components have a min-max altitude that coincide with optimal performance.

[PourLeMerite]

Hey thanks for the information there guys.

So I went Hypoxic....scarey ! and very dangerous, flying a powerful jet with exceedingly limited training.:cry:

 

Thankfully this is as close as I will ever get to flying a real plane, specialy the awesome Hog.

 

Yes indeed I would not have thought "..hmm I'm passing out here.." I would have just gone Guzunkko!...as my brain functions started to cease....very true GGTharos...and everyone else

 

For the Sims sake however, I did it again to check if my air was on etc...all ok..so I deliberatley turned off the "mask" air supply at 27,500 ft....I went hypoxic in about 20 seconds...turned it back on again and recovered in about 1 to 2 minutes...great that the devs allowed the workings of these little instruments to add that megga realism.:thumbup:

[rud]

I just found out turning on the 100% oxygen supply in your mask instead of normal air greatly speeds your recovery from hypoxia in game too.

[PourLeMerite]

I just found out turning on the 100% oxygen supply in your mask instead of normal air greatly speeds your recovery from hypoxia in game too.

 

Hi Rud, the devs have done a great job with all these finer functions. Use of 100% oxygen though uses it up quicker....less fly time :cry:

[Yellonet]

The interesting thing is that in reality you would not realize you are suffering from hypoxia. You would not have any warnings of the 'I am fainting' type - you would not be able to tell or make good decisions. Consider the fact that you can do this to be a bonus in the sim.

 

For the above reason, procedures to check oxygen levels and equipment and set them correctly are mandatory. After you get hypoxia, you're likely dead because you just won't know what's happening to you. This killed an entire airliner's worth of people not too long ago.

When hypoxia sets in there should be a function that randomizes all the control input, buttons and levers to simulate "confusion", that way you couldn't just lower the altitude or put on 100% oxygen as soon as you realize what's happening.

[Stretch]

The mask position is actually "test mask"; it provides positive pressure to your regulator so you can check for mask leaks (in real life). Oxygen ALWAYS comes to your mask; the cockpit is unpressurized.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

The oxy mask is just there in case the cockpit depressurises.

 

Not quite, the level of pressurisation in the A-10 (and I imagine combat jets in general) is far less than say, an airliner.

 

The A-10 is pressurised just enough to prevent injury/discomfort to the pilot from rapid climbs/descents, but not too much so it causes problems should there be a rapid de-pressurisation.

 

... the cockpit is unpressurized.

 

The A-10? It's not unpressurised.

[Napa]

The interesting thing is that in reality you would not realize you are suffering from hypoxia. You would not have any warnings of the 'I am fainting' type - you would not be able to tell or make good decisions. Consider the fact that you can do this to be a bonus in the sim.

 

For the above reason, procedures to check oxygen levels and equipment and set them correctly are mandatory. After you get hypoxia, you're likely dead because you just won't know what's happening to you. This killed an entire airliner's worth of people not too long ago.

 

About that...

Knew a guy in that flight. Its been 5 years and 3 months or so and the case is still in court (in fact the judge just denied witnesses from Boeing and some other European organization, don't know too much details on it).

 

And thats how it somehow happened....

"The preliminary investigation reports state that the maintenance performed on the aircraft had left the pressurization control on a 'manual' setting, in which the aircraft would not pressurise automatically on ascending; the pre-takeoff check had not disclosed nor corrected this. As the aircraft passed 10,000 feet (3,000 m), the cabin altitude alert horn sounded. The horn also sounds if the aircraft is not properly set for take off, e.g. flaps not set, and thus it was assumed to be a false warning. The aircrew found a lack of a common language and inadequate English a hindrance in solving the problem. The aircrew called maintenance to ask how to disable the horn, and were told where to find the circuit-breaker. The pilot left his seat to see to the circuit breaker and both aircrew lost consciousness shortly afterwards."

 

Poor people didn't know what hit them. :(

[dane48]

Screenshots of Feinting

 

I went up to 30,000+ feet and being low on fuel I kept on climbing until I ran out of fuel. Screenshots are as follows: I eventually ejected.

[HemingwayFE]

The interesting thing is that in reality you would not realize you are suffering from hypoxia. You would not have any warnings of the 'I am fainting' type - you would not be able to tell or make good decisions. Consider the fact that you can do this to be a bonus in the sim.

 

For the above reason, procedures to check oxygen levels and equipment and set them correctly are mandatory. After you get hypoxia, you're likely dead because you just won't know what's happening to you. This killed an entire airliner's worth of people not too long ago.

 

Absolutely not true! Altitude chambers exist in modern military forces to demonstrate the insidious onset of hypoxia. Every person shows known signs and symptons when their body is starved of oxygen.

 

At certain pressure altitudes the onset of hypoxia may be a matter of hours, minutes, or mere seconds(Time of Useful Consciousness). The most dangerous of this is an aircrew unaware of the high cabin altitude (insidious). This is when proper training and experience will SHOW you how exactly you react. We have a 4 year requirement in the USAF to attend chamber training just for this reason.

 

To your average airline passenger, they may or may not realize they are feeling 'off'. To the crew, they sure as heck would have an idea if they were engaged into what was happening.

 

Flightdeck personnel will be doing proper check outs of O2 systems and cabin pressurization. These systems are, for the most part, fire and forget. The training comes in to be actively doing panel scans, observing the cabin altitude during critical phases of flight, and ensuring the A/C system, and bleed air source is all operational.

Edited November 14, 2010 by HemingwayFE

[SimFreak]

Absolutely not true! Altitude chambers exist in modern military forces to demonstrate the insidious onset of hypoxia. Every person shows known signs and symptons when their body is starved of oxygen.

 

At certain pressure altitudes the onset of hypoxia may be a matter of hours, minutes, or mere seconds(Time of Useful Consciousness). The most dangerous of this is an aircrew unaware of the high cabin altitude (insidious). This is when proper training and experience will SHOW you how exactly you react. We have a 4 year requirement in the USAF to attend chamber training just for this reason.

 

To your average airline passenger, they may or may not realize they are feeling 'off'. To the crew, they sure as heck would have an idea if they were engaged into what was happening.

 

Flightdeck personnel will be doing proper check outs of O2 systems and cabin pressurization. These systems are, for the most part, fire and forget. The training comes in to be actively doing panel scans, observing the cabin altitude during critical phases of flight, and ensuring the A/C system, and bleed air source is all operational.

 

Yep, all pilots are required to visit chamber and find out their limits. Some of symptoms can be ; loss of color vision, blurry vision, discoloration of nails, tingling sensation in hands, feeling of well-being, goofiness etc, Different for every person....

GGTharos, not sure what reality you're speaking of here....

[GGTharos]

The one where hypoxia was the cause of aircraft crashes. Which one are you speaking of?

 

GGTharos, not sure what reality you're speaking of here....

Edited November 14, 2010 by GGTharos

[Echonomix]

It's kinda scary to read the ntsb reports of GA crashes where pilots apparently suffered from lack of oxygen and passed out, crashing later.

[Bubb]

Helios Airways flt #522 crashed into a mountain for the same reason. Just imagine 140 people getting hypoxia...Terrifying

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

[HemingwayFE]

Helios Airways flt #522 crashed into a mountain for the same reason. Just imagine 140 people getting hypoxia...Terrifying

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

 

And that's what happens when there is no adherence to the checklists. People die.

[PourLeMerite]

I'm going to have to be a numb-nuts now...:doh:

 

...so let me get this straight, Hypoxia is a lack of oxygen in the brain and not lack of blood going to the brain? or is it ??

 

Is this because the air is so thin or becuase of some pressurization thing that means the body is like going through the benz like deep sea divers get at too deep?

 

For twenty odd years I have been playing tank games, infantry games, uboat games....its only the past 18 months or so I have gotten into flight sims, with Rise Of Flight, KA-50 and this one, hence its all a new playground for me...its a great playground though !

 

Rise of Flight WWI flight Sim and KA-50 never a problem because you never go quite high enough!

 

And by the way if someone could tell me what is all the correct air-oxygen settings that I should have in flight of my A10 :helpsmilie:

Edited November 14, 2010 by PourLeMerite
To add another question

[159th_Viper]

...so let me get this straight, Hypoxia is a lack of oxygen in the brain and not lack of blood going to the brain?

 

No - there is enough oxygen present. Very simply put - It's the pressure that's insufficient (low oxygen partial pressure).

 

 

... that means the body is like going through the benz like deep sea divers get at too deep?....

 

Not the same. Narcosis occurs when breathing gases under increased pressure.

[HemingwayFE]

I'm going to have to be a numb-nuts now...:doh:

 

...so let me get this straight, Hypoxia is a lack of oxygen in the brain and not lack of blood going to the brain? or is it ??

 

Is this because the air is so thin or becuase of some pressurization thing that means the body is like going through the benz like deep sea divers get at too deep?

 

For twenty odd years I have been playing tank games, infantry games, uboat games....its only the past 18 months or so I have gotten into flight sims, with Rise Of Flight, KA-50 and this one, hence its all a new playground for me...its a great playground though !

 

Rise of Flight WWI flight Sim and KA-50 never a problem because you never go quite high enough!

 

And by the way if someone could tell me what is all the correct air-oxygen settings that I should have in flight of my A10 :helpsmilie:

 

Yes, it's oxygen-related. It's why mountain climbers carry O2 bottles with them and why emergency O2 is delivered under pressure.

 

When I did my altitude chamber training the oxygen was delivered at such a great pressure exhaling became an exercise almost. Even on the AWACS it comes out on the emergency setting at a good pressure. Gotta compensate for the thin air in some manner.

 

Divers experience tremendously high pressure at differing depths. The pressure aircrew feel is not anywhere near that. In a normally operating aircraft pressurized within a normal range it's the same pressure as living in a place like Denver. In a rapid decompression scenario, holding in your breath could result in you blowing a lung. I fortunately was told prior to that we were going from 10,000 feet altitude to something like 25,000 feet almost instantly. It's like being an explosion in your chest. Literally, the air is blown out of your body. Very odd feeling.

Edited November 14, 2010 by HemingwayFE

[sobek]

No - there is enough oxygen present. Very simply put - It's the pressure that's insufficient (low oxygen partial pressure).

 

Correct. This means that the erythrocites (the red blood cells) can not 'load up' fully with oxygen. Given enough time to compensate (days to weeks), your body will produce more red blood cells than on sea level to be able to extract sufficient oxygen from the air.

 

Hypoxia can also, to a certain degree, be compensated with by breathing faster and having a higher pulse. The problem is that the 'control system' in the body controlling pulse and breathing rate measures mainly the amount of carbondioxide in the blood. Thing with hypoxia is, there can't be too much carbondioxide in your blood if there isn't enough oxygen so this regulatory circuit reacts poorly to hypoxia.

[Dimebag1]

And a lack of blood going to the brain which is typically induced by pulling too many positive g's is known as GLOC (gravity induced loss of consiousness).

 

Additionally, a complete lack of oxygen is known as anoxia.

[Echonomix]

Correct. This means that the erythrocites (the red blood cells) can not 'load up' fully with oxygen. Given enough time to compensate (days to weeks), your body will produce more red blood cells than on sea level to be able to extract sufficient oxygen from the air.

 

Hypoxia can also, to a certain degree, be compensated with by breathing faster and having a higher pulse. The problem is that the 'control system' in the body controlling pulse and breathing rate measures mainly the amount of carbondioxide in the blood. Thing with hypoxia is, there can't be too much carbondioxide in your blood if there isn't enough oxygen so this regulatory circuit reacts poorly to hypoxia.

 

 

Some athletes (cyclists, runners...mostly endurance sports) will train in higher altitudes for this very reason. They want to make extra red blood cells to carry more oxygen. They can stay aerobic longer and not have to switch over to anaerobic, which is a huge energy waster. There is some debate about just how effective this actually is though. However it has been proven that, given enough time in high altitudes, the body will compensate by increasing the amout of red blood cells.

[SimFreak]

The one where hypoxia was the cause of aircraft crashes. Which one are you speaking of?

 

The interesting thing is that in reality you would not realize you are suffering from hypoxia

 

That.

 

 

There is a rapid-D and gradual....if pilots were not trained on their symptoms and ignore their alarms, gradual D will bring down entire crew. I've experienced myself gradual-D in flight by aircraft not being pressurized during takeoff and another time regulator being broken that started depressurization. Guess what? I noticed both times without instruments that something is wrong.

 

So your reality seems a bit off...why speak on subject you don't know anything about?

Edited November 14, 2010 by SimFreak
spelling

[sobek]

However it has been proven that, given enough time in high altitudes, the body will compensate by increasing the amout of red blood cells.

 

True, a few days of acclimatisation often mean the difference between life and death above 14000 feet.