636_Castle Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Well I've tried, and tried again to register on A2A's forum, but they always mess it up somehow. So this is for anyone with the Spitfire w/ Accusim. I'm flying the Mk IIb with the Dehavilland 3 bladed prop. As some of you may know, Accusim can be difficult because you can damage the internals of the jet through misuse. My airframe only has about 5 hours on it, and already I've had to replace the hydraulic lines, fix 2 coolant leaks, replace 2 engine cylinders, and I keep getting white metal shavings in my oil filter. As far as I can tell, I'm not doing anything that would cause such major issues. Anyone else having a hard time with it? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] How To Fix Your X-52's Rudder!
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 What power settings are you using? Are you warming up your engine properly? How are you using your radiator? Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Don't stick to %! Keep looking at your boost gauge/rpm. And keep a hawk eye on the radiator temp! Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
636_Castle Posted February 13, 2011 Author Posted February 13, 2011 I'm using the power settings on the shift+2 popup panel. I takeoff with my water temp at about 100 degrees. Quick question though, if you bring your power back to idle in flight, is that bad for your engine? I know it's bad on the ground, but my engine seems to run poorly when I do it in flight too. 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] How To Fix Your X-52's Rudder!
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Don't takeoff with water at or above 100 degrees, trouble will 99,999999% sure follow, depending on OAT. The water temp doesn't need warming up, the oil does. When the oil reaches 15, runup/takeoff. Get airspeed! On your other question: Yes! Very bad. When you do that, the engine is wind-milling (i.e. the wind is turning it over), which, decreases life veryvery rappidly. 1 Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 13, 2011 Posted February 13, 2011 Scott (from A2A), has done those accusim familiarization video's, for all except the spitfire, and I'm currently working on a 4 part video of that theme. I'll let you know when I've finished :) Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
andysim Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I found keeping my RPM as low as possible helps so much with engine life span. I use 2600rpm for the take off (more than enough for this aircraft) and 22 to 2400 rpm in flight. There is an issue with to much wear being caused at start up though. Its being fixed in the next patch.
sobek Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Quick question though, if you bring your power back to idle in flight, is that bad for your engine? I know it's bad on the ground, but my engine seems to run poorly when I do it in flight too. I don't know about the windmilling that darkeagle mentioned(also i don't own this sim), but flying on idle will make it hard to keep the cylinder temp stable, which is essential for long engine life. Prevent any sudden cylinder temperature transients (and keep temp in the green during operation in general). Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Yes that is true sobek (regarding cyl temp), but wingmilling is certainly modelled! (And no, that isn't very good for your engine :P ) Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Succellus Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Can you elaborate on windmilling being bad for engine apart from terrific heat dissipation ? I don t know squat and i m curious. And no i wont buy the sim. As for temp doing 100C well cooling weren t as eficient in the times so keep it as far as possible from boiling. HaF 922, Asus rampage extreme 3 gene, I7 950 with Noctua D14, MSI gtx 460 hawk, G skill 1600 8gb, 1.5 giga samsung HD. Track IR 5, Hall sensed Cougar, Hall sensed TM RCS TM Warthog(2283), TM MFD, Saitek pro combat rudder, Cougar MFD.
Stretch Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 My guess: A windmilling propeller drives the pistons which can create spark plug fouling. Tim "Stretch" Morgan 72nd VFW, 617th VFS Other handles: Strikeout (72nd VFW, 15th MEU Realism Unit), RISCfuture (BMS forums) PC and Peripherals: https://pcpartpicker.com/user/RISCfuture/saved/#view=DMp6XL Win10 x64 — BMS — DCS — P3D
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Windmilling gives terrible wear on the entire engine (mostly valves, crank, bearings). I'll have to conduct some more research to say any more regarding this. As for the temp: Yes. exactly. The spit's radiator (the first marks), were a) blocked with the gear, and b) very small. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
sobek Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I'll have to conduct some more research to say any more regarding this. Are you talking about letting the engine be completely windmilled (no combustion in the cylinders) or just letting it run at low boost? I'd be curious about the mechanism of engine decay in this scenario, if you can provide some insight. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Burnerski Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I gonna have to get the A2A Spit it looks real nice. Danny
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 There is a threshhold. In a US aircraft (with gauges reading inches murcury), the rule of thumb is (with a supercharged/turbocharged engine, I'm not sure this also applies for non-super-/turbocharged engines, I thought it was the other way around..), to never run a MP (manifold pressure) lower than the RPM devided by 100 (i.e. with 2500rpm, never run with MP lower than 25"). So there is a difference between "low-boost", and "idle" (duh :P ). There is a conversion to get from PSI (spitfire gauges), to inches. However, I'm not familiar with it, and I use certain power settings to make sure there is no windmilling. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Burnerski Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 Each engine is different. Running high MP and low RPM's can result in detonation, which is very hard on the pistons. Modern turbocharged engines can run at 30" of MP, your not gonna keep your RPM above 3000. In non supercharged/ turbo engines MP decreases with altitude. For example at 12000' your MP would be approximately 18". Your not gonna run less than 1800 RPM. Thrown into the all the above is your mixture setting in relation to RPM and MP. Regards, Danny
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 I'm not talking about modern engines ;) But yeah, that's roughly what it corrolates to. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Avilator Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) There is a conversion to get from PSI (spitfire gauges), to inches. However, I'm not familiar with it, and I use certain power settings to make sure there is no windmilling. Considering that standard pressure is 29.92 inches of mercury, and 1 atmosphere is 14.7 psi, 30inHg ~ 15psi EDIT: I've never heard of windmilling to be bad for the engine. However, running high boost with low RPM or cooling the cylinders rapidly will both leave you powerless in a hurry. Edited February 15, 2011 by Avilator I only respond to that little mechanical voice that says "Terrain! Terrain! Pull Up! Pull Up!" Who can say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow. -Robert Goddard "A hybrid. A car for enthusiasts of armpit hair and brown rice." -Jeremy Clarkson "I swear by my pretty floral bonet, I will end you." -Mal from Firefly
sobek Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 EDIT: I've never heard of windmilling to be bad for the engine. Neither did i, but i'd be curious to hear about the specifics if it is true. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Bucic Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) Neither did i, but i'd be curious to hear about the specifics if it is true. Best would be to simply do a search through both WoP 3 and AccSim PDF manuals. The chances that they failed to mention that are rather slim. I personally don't see any potential wear during windmilling except when RPM gets critical (too high). But I'll be looking into it for sure as I'm not sure. Edited February 16, 2011 by Bucic F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
sobek Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 Best would be to simply do a search through both WoP 3 and AccSim PDF manuals. The chances that they failed to mention that are rather slim. I personally don't see any potential wear during windmilling except when RPM gets critical (too high). But I'll be looking into it for sure as I'm not sure. I don't own it, i'm just interested in RL operation. :) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Bucic Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 I don't own it, i'm just interested in RL operation. :) That's the thing - from AccuSim manuals you learn how real thing works AND you don't need to own it to download both manuals :) F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
MTFDarkEagle Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 The pilot's manual states that the damage is done to the engine'sinternal bearings. As far as I can see in the quick browse through, the accu-sim manual doesn't state any regarding this. Lukas - "TIN TIN" - 9th Shrek Air Strike Squadron TIN TIN's Cockpit thread
Bucic Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 The pilot's manual states that the damage is done to the engine'sinternal bearings. As far as I can see in the quick browse through, the accu-sim manual doesn't state any regarding this. Engine on or engine off windmilling? Could you post an excerpt? F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
effte Posted February 16, 2011 Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I'm flying the Mk IIb with the Dehavilland 3 bladed prop. ... you can damage the internals of the jet through misuse. The Spit is a real lady, and she's breaking due to you insulting her! ;) On your other question: Yes! Very bad. When you do that, the engine is wind-milling (i.e. the wind is turning it over), which, decreases life veryvery rappidly. Windmilling doesn't do serious damage engines, unless you let it windmill to the point of overspeeding. You're likely to have the engine windmilling on most every approach (or you wouldn't make the field in case of a sudden deafening silence). Edit: There is a limitation on windmilling in the Accusim rendition of the MkII manual. Peculiar - that takes further investigation. I found keeping my RPM as low as possible helps so much with engine life span. I use 2600rpm for the take off (more than enough for this aircraft) and 22 to 2400 rpm in flight. There is an issue with to much wear being caused at start up though. Its being fixed in the next patch. You need to keep the RPM up for high power operations, or you will be overtorqueing and risking detonation. Both can destroy your engine more or less instantly. There is a threshhold. In a US aircraft (with gauges reading inches murcury), the rule of thumb is (with a supercharged/turbocharged engine, I'm not sure this also applies for non-super-/turbocharged engines, I thought it was the other way around..), to never run a MP (manifold pressure) lower than the RPM devided by 100 (i.e. with 2500rpm, never run with MP lower than 25"). The rule of thumb is just a rule of thumb. While it worked for some old Dinocomings etc, there are no guarantees. Stick with the power/RPM settings in the POH. And yes, the limit is to always keep the RPM to a a minimum dictated by the MAP setting - not the other way around. Overboosting means a too high MAP for a given RPM. Considering that standard pressure is 29.92 inches of mercury, and 1 atmosphere is 14.7 psi, 30inHg ~ 15psi Brit gauges show MAP relative to atmospheric while US gauges show absolute pressure. In other words, you need to add 1 atm. Cheers, Fred Edited February 16, 2011 by effte 2 ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
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