Hydraulic System Damage Modelling

[Laud]

Hey guys,

I'm not sure weather this is the appropriate section of forums to post, but I couldn't find a section that would look much better for that.

 

Yesterday we had a squadron training-flight. I lost half of my right wing due to a collision with a building. You can see on the screenshot what section was missing:

 

 

The good thing: All aerodynamical effects I had to deal with seemed to make perfectly sense and it was a challenge and fun to land that aircraft.

 

The question: Regarding to the Dash-1 Hydraulic-System-Schematic (attached picture below), I should have had both hydraulic systems cut and therefor loose hydraulic pressure on both systems (at least one of them). But I had NO fault warning light come on, and no loss of hydraulic pressure. As far as I can read the picture I'd say the ailerons are connected to both hydraulic systems for redundancy reasons. That would mean if you loose this actuator, both hydraulic systems get cut and loose pressure. While the Speedbrakes are connected to the right hydraulic system, I should have lost at least that one, right?

 

Now is this something you're aware of? Is it maybe subject to change? Or am I understanding this whole hydraulic system wrong? I thought I should report this, as you maybe haven't had this kind of damage while testing, and therefor missing the "bug".

 

[JesseJames38]

Not sure about the A10 but i do know other Commershal aircraft actuly have fuses for this sort of thing. For all we know there could be one at each wing root for each system. Here is a link on how it works. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(hydraulic)

 

Jesse

[Laud]

TY for the link Jesse! I thought of something like that myself, but couldn't find it mentioned in the Dash-1, so I thought I should ask if there's something wrong with the damage modelling or my understanding of the system.

[greg765]

I had the same problem on a mission :

I was hit by a SAM and I lost a part of my right wing , but I had no alert in the cockpit (no master caution, no hydraulic pressure alert...). My gear, my flaps worked normally and the aircraft was "flyable".

 

Normally, I think that I should have lost hydraulic pressure.

Is it a bug ?

 

I'm quite surprised because it's an hardcore sim, so I thought that hydraulic systems was modelised properly.

Edited February 25, 2011 by greg765

[mvsgas]

I do not know many detail on the A-10 but on the F-16 there are many check valve preventing some components from draining the reservoirs if there is a cut line.

[EtherealN]

I thought I should report this, as you maybe haven't had this kind of damage while testing, and therefor missing the "bug".

 

We had it all the time, actually. :P

Losing parts of the airframe was a favourite way to test the flight model. ;)

[Laud]

And so what's the deal? Protection devices -> Correct modelling or no Protection devices -> wrong damage modelling?

 

I'd like to know what to teach our trainees!

[sobek]

We'll probably have to wait for a comment from Yo-Yo to be sure.

[Laud]

We'll probably have to wait for a comment from Yo-Yo to be sure.

 

Indeed I'm waiting for such a comment... :music_whistling:

[Yo-Yo]

Let's wait the patch... :) sorry.

[Laud]

No problem! For now I'm totally satisfied, knowing, that in the present build it is not modelled as intended.

 

So we'll wait a little more before we teach our trainees about ow the hydraulics work and which damage will have which kind of effect.

[Laivynas]

I've done one other test.

Turned off both hydros and tried to fly using the reserve system. Bank is more or less OK, but pitch is terrible at speed lower 200kts. Stick start to bounce in longitudinal direction, a/c also. And You can't pull up no way.

Is it right? Or I'm missing something?

Edited February 28, 2011 by Laivynas

[Laud]

Yo-Yo stated it's an known issue they're already working on.

[Dark-Light]

So roll on to what is now essentially 5 years later (necrothread time) and hydraulics are still pretty underdeveloped, and work incorrectly in A10c. Is there some reason why this hasn't been fixed and other projects up and away instead? It is like many have mentioned, a critical part of the sim.

 

Engines shut down..next to no loss of hydraulic pressure - try it yourself!

[Blackeye]

Engines shut down..next to no loss of hydraulic pressure - try it yourself!

 

If you don't use the hydraulics it will take a long time for the pressure to drop.

Operating the flaps (left system), speed brakes (right) and ailerons however will drain the stored pressure from the accumulators fairly fast.

 

Still it lasts a lot longer in the Sim than it should according to

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1892547&postcount=6

Edited January 11, 2016 by Blackeye

[QuiGon]

I've done one other test.

Turned off both hydros and tried to fly using the reserve system. Bank is more or less OK, but pitch is terrible at speed lower 200kts. Stick start to bounce in longitudinal direction, a/c also. And You can't pull up no way.

Is it right? Or I'm missing something?

 

That sounds exactly like what a real A-10C pilot has said in a Q&A-session here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2637329&postcount=70

IIRC he said that in manual reversion if you get too slow the nose drops like a rock and he talked about a student pilot who was using manual reversion in a training flight and wasn't aware of that behaviour. When his airspeed dropped to much his nose dropped and he went down fast, but was able to recover by putting the normal flight controls back to work.

Edited January 11, 2016 by QuiGon

[Eagle0110]

But, yes you can deplete the remaining hydraulic pressure when the engines are not running (though as slow as if your engines are still running), but as long as you are still flying you will see the hydraulic pressure magically "comes back" to normal level...

I remember Snooby (or Yo-yo, can't remember exactly) once mentioned he was trying to convince ED to give up their misconception that "windmailing engine fan is still able to provide full hydraulic pressure" without success...

 

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