Please give us Air to Air weapons.

[Henchman14]

I've read all the arguments for and against a2a on the BS. But I'm sick of getting constantly killed by anything else that is in the air. Their is a big difference between the laser guided missles carried by the other aircraft, and the beam riding vhikers carried by the BS. The AI can "see" you at any distance and through hills even. And they come for you straight off. Their missles never miss and it doesn't matter how fast you are going, they will hit.

The vhiker, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be able to hit anything more than a slow moving tank. Even trying to hit slow moving, locked on helis is a hit or miss situation. When they are moving fast, the missle has a hard time keeping in the tunnel. And forget it when you fire at a slow jet.

The russians obviously have A2A capabilities in mind on the BS. There are both arming and ejection buttons for them in the cockpit. They knew that the vihkers are "meh" at best for defense, and intended for there to be Iglas and R-73's for A2A defense. I don't know why people think that heli's should be totally defenseless against other aircraft. You say you don't have any data for how they would be implemented, but you have guessed at other things. So please give us a mod for A2A based on you "best guess" at how they would be implemented. It shouldn't be that hard. I would guess that it would be like the F16, with an envelope on the hud, and tone lock. When you hear the high tone, you fire. Nothing miraculous. The missles should be mounted on the inner pylons, cause their is not that much launch blast to deal with. The copter as it is now is weak. Let it have its full potential.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Henchman14

[Xxx]

In fact there is some evidence to suggest....that he is right:thumbup:. I too would like to see the AA self defense implemented.

 

Its not a case of "dumbing down" more a case of looking at what can be done and, in my opinion should be done. We attack helo drivers deserve all the latest real world mods available. Vladimir would see to it!:smilewink:

 

Its here in the specs:-

 

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/ka-50.htm

 

1x 2A42 30-mm cannon [250 HE-Frag + 250 AP]

2 - AT-16 VIKhR ATGM (6 each)

2 - 80-mm rockets (20 each)

2 - Twin 23-mm gun pods [940 rounds]

4 - 500-kg bombs

2 - AA-11/ARCHER AAM

External fuel tanks (500 liters)

 

Further:-

 

 

 

"External stores are mounted on underwing external hardpoints. Each wing has two hardpoints for a total of four stations. A typical mix for targeting armor formations is 12x AT-16 ATGMs, 500x 30-mm cannon rounds, and 2x 20-round pods of 80-mm folding fin unguided rockets. The 30-mm cannon is the same as on the BMP-2. It also carries guided air-to-air missiles IGLA-V (Needle C), already extensively tested and sold to buyers abroad. "

 

So anyone good at mods want to do this one?:thumbup: You would have a large following of fans!

 

Regards.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Accipiter

[Henchman14]

There is no guessing required. The Ka-50 CANNOT carry AAMs, end of.

 

If you keep being shot down perhaps you should re-evaluate your tactics and adapt to the situation and equipment, rather than asking for the sim to be dumbed down to suit you.

 

Well, thats crap. I've been flying this sim for about 2 years now. I fly very well, and cautiously. THE PROBLEM is that there is NO AIR DEFENSE. Maybe you should do some better research. If they never meant to implement it, then why are there switches and buttons for it in the cockpit? Answer me that. I don't care if they never gave you any information for it, just please give us players ( you know, the ones who buy your sim, and have been asking for this FOREVER ) a mod to do this. Not like it would take that much effort. Because I and many others are getting a little sick of being told by companies, quite rudely, its our way or the highway. Were the customer, REMEMBER? Thanks again for the snotty little reply. I'll remember that the next time I think about buying one of your sims.

[Ninjaofdoom]

I see your point, but grow up.

[Henchman14]

Well, if you see my point, and want to ignore it, then maybe you should try growing up. Ignoring facts is not very adult. And please don't post in my thread again if you really have nothing to say.

[159th_Viper]

It's not going to happen.

 

Why?

 

Search the forums for this very discussion that has taken place on more than one occasion. And yes, SME's for the Kamov included actual Kamov Pilots amongst others IIRC. As such, mere argument referring to internet links and 'if there's a switch why is it not modelled' is unfortunately not even beginning to approach adequate. What you have at present is as real as it gets insofar as the Kamov is concerned.

[winz]

The russians obviously have A2A capabilities in mind on the BS. There are both arming and ejection buttons for them in the cockpit.

And there is a AG button in the F15C.. go figure ;)

[Henchman14]

Not a good answer. Pretty harsh. Not good to ignore the wishes of MANY customers. All we are asking for, and have asked for as you say yourself MANY TIMES, is a small bit of code to activate the switches on the cockpit, and let us carry A2A missles. Vhikers and R73's would be fine. It would solve SO MANY problems. The AI, even at low, cheat like hell. I really don't care who thinks its realistic or not. They don't have to put the mod on their server. Really, I just want it for offline. In the end, many customers, me included, would like it. Don't you listen to your customers? Pretty harsh attitude. You ought to go out on the internet and see what people say about your company. They say you ignore your customers and have elitist attitudes. And they are right. It really makes me rethink about whether I'm going to purchase A10 or not. I don't deal with companies who sit on a throne and dictate to their customers.

[GGTharos]

The Ka-50 never carried AAM's in service, and as far as is known it is not even wired to do so.

 

DCS aims for HIGH FIDELITY simulation, not fantasy.

[Ninjaofdoom]

"In the end, many customers, me included, would like it. Don't you listen to your customers? Pretty harsh attitude. You ought to go out on the internet and see what people say about your company. They say you ignore your customers and have elitist attitudes. And they are right. It really makes me rethink about whether I'm going to purchase A10 or not. I don't deal with companies who sit on a throne and dictate to their customers."

 

This is what I was referring to Henchman. I'm sure that this is not 'the majority of people on the internet'. What you are asking for is for something not realistic to be added to the sim, 'for offline only'. The DCS series is all about absolute realism. Why would they change that?

 

I _ABSOLUTELY_ feel your pain, as I just completed a mission where if MY AI wingman hadnt shot down the MI-24s that attacked me, NO WAY would I have lived. It is very hard, and downright frustrating at times, but honestly I think it has more to do with the hyper-aware and yet full-retard AI that BS currently has. I have high hopes that the A-10 compat patch will fix the severely broken AI in BS.

 

Cheers brother. :)

[Henchman14]

Lol, hyper-aware is putting it mildly. I'd say their downright cheats. And really, this is an EXPERIMENTAL copter. It's never really been put in service, and is still being thought about. Seeing as its still experimental, and the switches are there, I don't see the problem of enabling A2A. Kind of like convoy drivers in Iraq that got tired of their lot being killed, and started welding extra scrap armor on their APCs. The vhikers are just obviously not made for A2A. They can't turn fast enough to follow and end up flying out of the laser tunnel. This is why the apaches are so much better at hitting us. They don't have to worry about the tunnel, just if their missles can turn sharply enough ( and they can!). On a heli with just one crew member, it is obvious that IR A2A defenses are needed. Its REALLY HARD trying to do 20 things at once. Get tone, fire, dive for cover ( little that there is ) is what it should be. Half of the time you can't even get the shkval to lock up the chopper until their within close gun range. Then your dead. The switches are there, so its definitely been more than thought about. If its just a matter of wiring, then its probably the next thing that would be activated. If I was a heli pilot, I would not want to go into combat without this defense. And it really just ruins the sim when you have no defenses against other (extremely aggressive) aircraft. Iglas on one stub would be perfect. You could cover for your whole team.

[Sticky]

The Emporer.. does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. - Darth Vader.

 

What is an "Emporer"?

[joey45]

If you add A2A weapons then you lose A2G weapons.

[159th_Viper]

....And really, this is an EXPERIMENTAL copter. It's never really been put in service, and is still being thought about. Seeing as its still experimental.....

 

Yeah.......right......I'm sure the people on the receiving end of the rockets will agree :music_whistling:

 

bEHJc1pTkHc&feature=related

[Henchman14]

There's how many? From what I read, a handful.

[Henchman14]

If you add A2A weapons then you lose A2G weapons.

 

Well, sure, but losing one stub is a lot better than losing a whole team of heli's.

 

And knowing the crafty russians who think outside the box, I can DEFINITELY see A2A on some choppers. Its why I like the russians (and their nice weapons) so much!

[Sticky]

You have a point about the ai, but putting Air-Air missiles on, like you asked for, is against one of the most important goals of ED: Realism. It would ruin it for the rest of us to add weapons thats not really there just to make it easier for you.

[159th_Viper]

There's how many? From what I read, a handful.

 

And?

 

You've now gone from 'none' to a 'handful'.....

 

Be that as it may, DCS: Kamov has been modelled to the highest fidelity in accordance with that very 'handful' and quite rightly so: That's exactly the reason why there are no A2A munitions present - no conspiracy theories, no 'elitist' views......just the respect accorded to model the Kamov with the strictest fidelity possible.

 

Thank Goodness.

[DTWD]

Ok here we go:

 

1) I am not sure if you have internet as me, but I have never seen anyone doing anything but singing the praises of ED for giving us a quality study sim.

 

2) If the BS has the wiring then that's one thing, but it's not like that in the virtual BS. You don't just decide "this thing is going to do AA" and it's a tick box in the compiler.

 

Let's assume with the missles the logic, the rendering, the target aquisition, target tracking are all moduler and already written (and work), we now have to interface that with the BS. Not only that you now have to write all the code for how it works for the pilot, what does he need to do, how will the systems behave etc. NOW you have to make sure this all works next to the current code/systems.

 

Basically what I am getting at is this: In RL it might have only required a wire fitting, but I doubt ED went to the trouble of programming systems that it never intended to activate. So it's not written, it needs doing, which is a lot of work. Something that's not going to happen on module thats "finished". I assume anything we see in BS now is a result of the advancement of the DCS.

 

3) Your attitude is a little petulant, you haven't got your own way so you seem to be a little mardy about it.

 

4) The BS is a ground attack helecopter, and let's face it, not an amazing one. Your comparing it to a modern (or at least modernised) attack helecopter (Apache). The BS will always come off the worse, unless something is seriosly wrong on the Apache.

 

5) Again the BS is a ground attack helecopter, or more precisly a flying tank, it should never enter the battlefield without proper back up, or with the knowledge it's going into theater in a role that will not see it come into contact with elements that can and will destroy it. So if your making your own missions pop in some air cover, that way they can neutralise the air threat before it ever gets near you.

[104th_Crunch]

Not a good answer. Pretty harsh. Not good to ignore the wishes of MANY customers. All we are asking for, and have asked for as you say yourself MANY TIMES, is a small bit of code to activate the switches on the cockpit, and let us carry A2A missles. Vhikers and R73's would be fine. It would solve SO MANY problems. The AI, even at low, cheat like hell. I really don't care who thinks its realistic or not. They don't have to put the mod on their server. Really, I just want it for offline. In the end, many customers, me included, would like it. Don't you listen to your customers? Pretty harsh attitude. You ought to go out on the internet and see what people say about your company. They say you ignore your customers and have elitist attitudes. And they are right. It really makes me rethink about whether I'm going to purchase A10 or not. I don't deal with companies who sit on a throne and dictate to their customers.

 

To be blunt, what a bunch of sh*t you are posting. First off, you are practically demanding something. Then, you make negative comments. Good luck to you with an attitude like that trying to get something.

 

Realism is the scope of DCS. ED have a LOT of things to do and must prioritize -like compatibility patches and bug fixes. Not, fantasy mods for fun. Also, I can give you many examples of ED listening to the customer base. FC2 and A-10C beta for instance.

 

I would suggest you see if someone can mod into Ka-50 what you seek, and not demanding what your whim is be put in the sim.

 

edit: If you don't like getting shotdown A2A, remove the A2A threat in the mission editor. The Ka-50 is not an A2A aircraft.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Crunch

[Henchman14]

And?

 

You've now gone from 'none' to a 'handful'.....

 

 

I never said none. And a handful to me, over what?, 15 years?, is experimental. I don't see them being mass produced. And from what I've read, they're have been plenty of experiments with them. The Russians are trying to figure out how to maximize the abilities of a single crewed helicopter. I see no problem with reality if this copter sported Igla C's.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Henchman14

[GGTharos]

It is in service, and it isn't experimental. There exist some experimental prototypes of the Ka-50 which are not in service.

 

And really, this is an EXPERIMENTAL copter. It's never really been put in service, and is still being thought about.

[JozMk.II]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie

There is no guessing required. The Ka-50 CANNOT carry AAMs, end of.

 

If you keep being shot down perhaps you should re-evaluate your tactics and adapt to the situation and equipment, rather than asking for the sim to be dumbed down to suit you.

:Endquote:

 

Well, thats crap. I've been flying this sim for about 2 years now. I fly very well, and cautiously. THE PROBLEM is that there is NO AIR DEFENSE. Maybe you should do some better research. If they never meant to implement it, then why are there switches and buttons for it in the cockpit? Answer me that. I don't care if they never gave you any information for it, just please give us players ( you know, the ones who buy your sim, and have been asking for this FOREVER ) a mod to do this. Not like it would take that much effort. Because I and many others are getting a little sick of being told by companies, quite rudely, its our way or the highway. Were the customer, REMEMBER? Thanks again for the snotty little reply. I'll remember that the next time I think about buying one of your sims.

 

If I may ask, where did you get that first quote from? I do not see the original post in this thread, nor do I see any posts by Eddie.

 

Don't you listen to your customers? Pretty harsh attitude. You ought to go out on the internet and see what people say about your company. They say you ignore your customers and have elitist attitudes. And they are right. It really makes me rethink about whether I'm going to purchase A10 or not. I don't deal with companies who sit on a throne and dictate to their customers.

 

Where are you getting this from? I've been keeping up on ED via their forums as well as news posted on external sites for the past few years and have encountered virtually nothing but praise for them. Frankly, they deserve this praise; I've been an avid ED fan since they released Black Shark and have come to the conclusion that they truly are passionate about study sims and care about satisfying their customers' wants so long as doing such does not change their products' genre altogether.

 

Case in point: Some months ago when A-10C was was in an earlier stage in development, a user by the alias of Arne Anka made a proposal that ED have a competition among its userbase to develop singleplayer and multiplayer campaigns for the sim. ED discussed the idea internally, decided that it'd be a win-win situation for everyone and directly supported said competition. Source:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=43761

 

Clear-cut evidence that ED does in fact care for its userbase. ;)

[GGTharos]

I never said none. And a handful to me, over what?, 15 years?, is experimental.

 

It doesn't matter what it is to you. What matters is what it does in RL.

 

I don't see them being mass produced. And from what I've read, they're have been plenty of experiments with them. The Russians are trying to figure out how to maximize the abilities of a single crewed helicopter. I see no problem with reality if this copter sported Igla C's.

They're ditching the single-crew helicopter, and they'll likely never get an AAM onboard.

[Xxx]

Wow, that soon filled 3 pages!:shocking:

 

Gentlemen, if I may, here's an article re the use of the KA 50 in Chechnya:-

 

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?25075-KA-50-in-Chechnya.&

 

 

I thought this paragraph of interest to the discussion topic:-

 

"The "Vikhr-M" missile can penetrate of up to 900 mm of explosive reactive armor from the maximum launch distance of 10 km, which makes it the most deadly anti-tank missile in service around the world. This remarkable missile can also engage aircraft flying at speeds of up to 800 km/h. Even though the Ka-50 is capable of firing dedicated air-to-air missiles, the air-to-air capability of the "Vikhr-M" allows to maximize the efficiency of the available maximum 2,000-kg weapons load."

 

As far as I can determine from the internet, the KA 50 does appear to have an Air to Air missile ( IR ) capability. However, the lack of its implementation is most probably due to the total absence of air to air threats the Russian military have to face in their current theatre of operations. However, the above highlighted paragraph speaks for itself.

 

 

In our (simulated) theatre of operations, if your weapons platform isn't carrying dedicated self defense IR air to air ordinance, then you must use whatever else you have available to survive and complete your mission. But if we become seriously threatened by enemy air assets, then I am sure the dormant facility to fit self defense air to air, would be a logical step. Either in this simulation or in the case of the real world.

 

Thinking of dormant capabilities, I remember a saying that related to the F-15 when it first flew, "Not a pound for air to ground"! Then there was the Strike Eagle:thumbup:

 

 

Best Regards.