JDAM / stand off weapons - CCRP? really?

[Dropbear]

I thought the idea of JDAM and stand off munitions were that you could launch from relatively safely, from high altitudes and let the weapon guide in to the target.

 

From the tutes I have seen in the game, we're taught to use JDAMS and other INS/GPS weapons in CCRP mode which entails flying relatively close to the target, and hence exposing yourself to more danger..

 

Is there a method of launching stand-off weapons without using CCRP or CCIP, and doing it from a distance?

[Eddie]

JDAM/WCMD is not lauched using CCRP as such, it's based on CCRP but is not quite the same. Where CCRP will release the weapon at a specific point required for the weapon to fly to the target on a ballistic trajectory. the IAM weapons can be release within a release window during which they will be able to reach their target.

 

JDAM/WCMD are not stand off weapons perse, they do not have their own propulsion and so must have enough energy at the point of launch to reach their target. They can be employed in ways which increases their range however (such as lofting/dropping at supersonic speeds) but those methods are not available to the A-10C, for obvious reasons.

[EtherealN]

To add to Eddie's post: if you need standoff, use Mavericks from high altitude, or drop the JDAM/LGB from above the enemy WEZ. (Remember, your A-10C is rated up to the 40k feet area. If necessary, use that.)

 

Or do like me, forget about standoff and go guns, consequences be damned. Because it's the manly thing to do. :P

[159th_Viper]

I thought the idea of JDAM and stand off munitions were that you could launch from relatively safely, from high altitudes and let the weapon guide in to the target.

 

Quite correct.

 

 

 

From the tutes I have seen in the game, we're taught to use JDAMS and other INS/GPS weapons in CCRP mode which entails flying relatively close to the target, and hence exposing yourself to more danger..

 

Depends on your Flight parameters. You will always have to release the munition in such a way that it's trajectory will bring it to target with sufficient leeway to correct where necessary. In the A10 (slow-mover) that unfortunately means that you have to get 'close'. In any event, JDAM release from 7 nm with you being approx 12nm from target-area at impact is pretty good stand-off.

 

Is there a method of launching stand-off weapons without using CCRP or CCIP, and doing it from a distance?

 

Iro smart-bombs, no. A10 is too slow to attempt loft-bombing with any degree of success.

[mic1184]

To add to Eddie's post: if you need standoff, use Mavericks from high altitude, or drop the JDAM/LGB from above the enemy WEZ. (Remember, your A-10C is rated up to the 40k feet area. If necessary, use that.)

 

Or do like me, forget about standoff and go guns, consequences be damned. Because it's the manly thing to do. :P

 

have you tried flying at 40k with ordnance and fuel left? if i place my hog at 40k in the editor with 2 mavs and 2 GBU-38 and start the mission i drop like a stone.

 

I like to do the manly thing too. Especially since final where the GAU sounds like a weapon. it's a game, not real, who cares about some virtual holes in a virtual plane? a virtual crewchief? :thumbup:

[EtherealN]

True, fuel and payload obviously affect that. But for an example, just now I took off with full fuel, 2x GBU-31, 2xGBU38, 2xMav, a Litening, 2x AIM-9 and an ALQ131. 27k feet wasn't an issue, and anything that can reach up and touch you up there isn't going to get sorted by anything short of a SEAD/DEAD flight. And remember - that's actually a fairly heavy load.

 

Regarding falling out of the sky, what did you set your speed as? Remember: at 40k feet, 250 knots is 250 knots TAS, which will be something like 100 knots IAS, which will make you fall out of the sky even if you are empty. Set your speed in the ME to 350 knots and 50% fuel (you had to fly up there, so what would you be doing there with full fuel?) I did that just now and it flew beautifully.

 

Obviously you'd probably want a TGP with you up there as well to target the GBU's, but that's no problem.

[pyates2104]

Toss.

 

In a word, you could use a toss (loft) bomb method. Not sure if the A10C avionics HUD q replicates this or even if its possible in a real A10C... but this would be the method of choice to deliver at max range. Other bombers use this method widely for dumb bombs. It's not that accurate, but in theory, this would not be a problem for a JDAM as you only need to deliver it into the envelope.

[EtherealN]

pyates, the A-10 is way too slow to effectively toss bombs.

[mic1184]

Toss.

 

In a word, you could use a toss (loft) bomb method. Not sure if the A10C avionics HUD q replicates this or even if its possible in a real A10C... but this would be the method of choice to deliver at max range. Other bombers use this method widely for dumb bombs. It's not that accurate, but in theory, this would not be a problem for a JDAM as you only need to deliver it into the envelope.

 

[...]

Iro smart-bombs, no. A10 is too slow to attempt loft-bombing with any degree of success.

 

has been discussed before, even mentioned a few posts above. Hog's too slow to toss-bomb effectively. Use mavs for stand-off or better send in pointy-noses before

[pyates2104]

pyates, the A-10 is way too slow to effectively toss bombs.

 

Yep your right.... 400-450 kts entry speed with a 3g pull up is probably a bit to speedy for an A10

[TAIPAN_]

I thought the idea of JDAM and stand off munitions were that you could launch from relatively safely, from high altitudes and let the weapon guide in to the target.

 

From the tutes I have seen in the game, we're taught to use JDAMS and other INS/GPS weapons in CCRP mode which entails flying relatively close to the target, and hence exposing yourself to more danger..

 

Is there a method of launching stand-off weapons without using CCRP or CCIP, and doing it from a distance?

 

Here's a track from "River Raider" mission using GBU-38 + GBU-12 only. I never touch the units guarding the bunkers, just climb up and drop bombs on the bunkers and go home. Of course there IS something that can touch us up there, that being the nasty SA-11 so I sorted him with guns first. In real life they would probably call in SEAD or ask me to go around, but I got annoyed at all the beeping and missile launches :megalol:

 

As long as there is nothing like SA-11 around, you can avoid all the other low altitude SAMs etc. Low SAM threat first bunker - I took with GBU-12 from only about 4000. Then climbed higher through the rest. SA-13s in the mission can shoot maybe 10,000 feet altitude, and this was not a problem at all. Also had warning from dog ear radar but don't know if that signified anything.

 

After the GBU-12 I do a long spiral climb so faster forward that with Ctrl Z. If short of time I do this when playing too, if it was my REAL life in danger I wouldn't mind waiting while I climbed.

 

http://www.oceanicwing.com/o_memberftp/o_taipan/BukSA11Guns_RiverRaid_Completed.rar

 

So in answer YES you can use them in standoff. See the targeting pod I launch the GBU-38s from 5km out. Add to this the altitude and most air defence has a hard time and won't even bother launching.

 

NOTE: You'll have to SHIFT Z to go normal speed when you open the track as I flew the real bombing mission after replaying the SA-11 track.

 

ps Just replayed the track, I noticed fast forwarding sometimes screwed up the last bomb drop and made me crash into a mountain. I made it back to an airbase I swear :)

Edited March 1, 2011 by TAIPAN_
track bugs

[FlyinJ]

As a side note, how did you go about dealing with the SA-11 with guns? Did you see where the missiles were shooting from and just dove in on it blazing using just eyes? Or is there some other way of assessing the threat with the targeting pod or other means to get a good pinpoint on the SA-11 location?

 

EDIT: This is assuming you had labels off, of course.

[effte]

Where there's an SA-11, there's bound to be MANPADS aplenty out in the harsh real world. :)

[Lonecrow66]

Quite correct.

 

 

 

 

 

Depends on your Flight parameters. You will always have to release the munition in such a way that it's trajectory will bring it to target with sufficient leeway to correct where necessary. In the A10 (slow-mover) that unfortunately means that you have to get 'close'. In any event, JDAM release from 7 nm with you being approx 12nm from target-area at impact is pretty good stand-off.

 

 

 

Iro smart-bombs, no. A10 is too slow to attempt loft-bombing with any degree of success.

 

 

Yeah but the higher you are ... the more you are a big juicy easy target for radar and sams. OF course they are always turning them on and off to evade SEAD missions. At least that was the way it was in the old time sims..

[TAIPAN_]

As a side note, how did you go about dealing with the SA-11 with guns? Did you see where the missiles were shooting from and just dove in on it blazing using just eyes? Or is there some other way of assessing the threat with the targeting pod or other means to get a good pinpoint on the SA-11 location?

 

EDIT: This is assuming you had labels off, of course.

 

Yeah labels off, located purely by the flashing beeping SD warning symbol. As I got closer I ordered wingman to "attack air defences" to ensure they would keep launching to aid visual. Then closed sitance at dust cloud alt. The new AI is much improved my wingman survives even though they are spamming missiles at him. I suppose he's helped by the new countermeasures system of the C model.

 

Targeting pod I only had so I could do the bunkers afterwards.

 

Also what effte said - very bad defences on the enemies part to not at least have a 23 or some kind of close range AAA protection :) Ideally a SEAD flight would help us. It was a very stupid move in flat territory like that and should be reserved for hilly terrain but I was lucky.

 

This sort of mission dropping standoff GBUs seems very suited to the new A-10C, and setting TGP to the waypoint is great. Good to master GBU in missions like this first where the target location is known. What I really have trouble with is CAS missions, finding hidden enemies even with TGP there is so much ground to cover!

[FlyinJ]

Yeah labels off, located purely by the flashing beeping SD warning symbol. As I got closer I ordered wingman to "attack air defences" to ensure they would keep launching to aid visual. Then closed sitance at dust cloud alt. The new AI is much improved my wingman survives even though they are spamming missiles at him. I suppose he's helped by the new countermeasures system of the C model.

 

Targeting pod I only had so I could do the bunkers afterwards.

 

Also what effte said - very bad defences on the enemies part to not at least have a 23 or some kind of close range AAA protection :) Ideally a SEAD flight would help us. It was a very stupid move in flat territory like that and should be reserved for hilly terrain but I was lucky.

 

This sort of mission dropping standoff GBUs seems very suited to the new A-10C, and setting TGP to the waypoint is great. Good to master GBU in missions like this first where the target location is known. What I really have trouble with is CAS missions, finding hidden enemies even with TGP there is so much ground to cover!

 

OK, you're the second person to tell me to use my poor wingman to draw up fire so I can locate SAMs and AAA. Poor guy, but that's his job for now on.

 

Thanks!

[waylander]

did you edit the mission to get that payload? it gives me 2 gbu-12, 2 gbu 38 then some other stuff that isnt much good against bunkers i tried to take the first one with the gau-8 but even waiting until the range was down to 0.5 and unloading almost 1000 rounds CM it survived

[TAIPAN_]

I just used the mission planner, I have saved favourite loadouts. The default loadout only works if you use your wingman to hit the bunkers too but he's not so reliable is he :)