Mk-82Air

[Kankkis]

How this baby can hit any target :)

 

I tryed first time and it doesen't go even close :joystick:

[coke23]

It's the same to me. It looks like CCIP and CCRP calculations are wrong. I understand wind could affect very much bomb's trajectory, and that's why it should be used at low altitudes, and that's what I intend to do, but no joy, it seems I'm doing something wrong. I've also tried to change N/T fuze (just to avoid high drag at higher altitudes, when it's not so secure to fly low), and I always get an "Invalid Fuzing" message. Any idea?

[dikkeduif]

I think the mk82air you can only drop with the n/t fuzing since it has a parachute.

 

As for dropping this bomb effectively, I also don't know. I think you should be flying really really low because the wind just pushes the bomb out of course.

[Rainmaker]

I think the mk82air you can only drop with the n/t fuzing since it has a parachute.

 

 

The Mk-82 high drag can be dropped either in a high or low drag mode. By selecting the nose fuzing, the aft arming wire is not pulled on release so the ballute is never activated.

[Kankkis]

When i select nose i got error CCRP calculations are wrong too.

 

If i'm right with nose fuse it released without ballute, but when i try CCRP and nosefuse i got error on my hud?

[mikey]

I think you're supposed to use this bomb with 5 mil mode but I've never hit anything with it, not even with big ripples.

[goon3r]

Check out wags youtube channel. He has a short video showing how to change the mk82 to low drag. You have to go into inventory first before you change the fuze type. Check out the video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt

[Ptroinks]

Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt#p/u/6/zdNxRZihcNM

[coke23]

The Mk-82 high drag can be dropped either in a high or low drag mode. By selecting the nose fuzing, the aft arming wire is not pulled on release so the ballute is never activated.

 

So, why do I always get an "Invalid Fuzing" message in my hud when I try to use it in Low Drag mode?

 

Direct link: http://www.youtube.com/user/wagmatt#p/u/6/zdNxRZihcNM

Ok, clearly explained in Wag's video. It only ended too early...:)

 

Thanks.

Edited April 23, 2011 by coke23

[deephack]

I don't have any problem hitting targets with the Mk82 in CCRP mode even without 5 mil. Are you lasing the target before release? A short tap on the nose wheel steering key is all that is needed to get accurate range information. Otherwise the computer calculates release based on terrain information and if your slant angle is quite low this will produce a large error.

 

If you don't understand any of this then I suggest you watch Excessive Headspaces excellent video

 

[mtuckner]

They are terribly inaccurate in CCIP. I can hit targets when they are slick but god help me if they aren't.

[Frederf]

If the MK-82AIRs are inventoried as "high drag" then the FCC assumes they are physically configured to always deploy the ballute no matter fuse solenoids used. Similarly "low drag" assumes that the ballute can never deploy.

 

The way they work in the sim is always the "pilot option" configuration (not hard-wired to always or never deploy) and so they should be inventoried as such. I don't know why this isn't the default inventory on mission load. They need to be inventoried to PLT OPT(1,2) to best match the physical reality of their behavior potential. Failures to drop slick may be due to this problem.

 

The MK-82AIRs are not super accurate in high drag, low altitude delivery in real life; usually 4-6 are required to really hit a target area. However, low altitude is about 1000' not 200'. If released at very low altitudes then the MK-82AIRs aren't accurate at all.

 

The reason for this is one of expectation. What's the lowest you can bomb safely with plain old MK-82s? In DCS it's quite low, way lower than real life, due to the frag envelope size and duration being absent from modeling. The result is that the user expects that MK-82AIRs are for altitudes below where MK-82s are safe to use. The heart of where MK-82AIRs are best used is just not this low.

 

I could do some testing and calculation but the minimum altitude to deploy a MK-82AIR in high drag and still escape a realistic fragmentation envelope assuming 300 knots is probably still pretty high up.

[Rainmaker]

I'll have to remember to check this later when I fly. I seem to remember being able to select nose fuzing in prior patches without getting an invalid fuzing message without having to reload the store. I am almost positive it wasn't an issue before when I was checking out wepons and such. But I will say that I haven't loaded them since 1.06 so it might have been something that got broken.

[coke23]

I don't have any problem hitting targets with the Mk82 in CCRP mode even without 5 mil. Are you lasing the target before release? A short tap on the nose wheel steering key is all that is needed to get accurate range information. Otherwise the computer calculates release based on terrain information and if your slant angle is quite low this will produce a large error.

 

If you don't understand any of this then I suggest you watch Excessive Headspaces excellent video

 

 

Lasing before launch.....maybe that was it. I'll try it. Thanks :thumbup:

[funkster]

Lasing before launch.....maybe that was it. I'll try it. Thanks :thumbup:

Im a noob but I thought Mk82 was dumb therefore laser would do nothing ????

[SmokeyTheLung]

Im a noob but I thought Mk82 was dumb therefore laser would do nothing ????

 

The laser informs the FCC about slant range, giving you a more accurate firing solution

 

...I think

[Frederf]

Only if TGP is proving the SPI. If you're using the TGP you're probably not low enough to justify using MK-82AIRs anyway.

 

INR mode of the TGP or the TDC or darn near any SPI is going to be more accurate than the weapon itself. Reducing your 20 foot error to 2 foot doesn't mean too much when the weapon is only going to land somewhere within 75 feet of where it's aimed anyway.

[arteedecco]

Im a noob but I thought Mk82 was dumb therefore laser would do nothing ????

 

The laser informs the FCC about slant range, giving you a more accurate firing solution

 

...I think

 

Cant stress this enough:

If you don't understand any of this then I suggest you watch Excessive Headspaces excellent video

 

 

Essentially, "dumb bombs" ("iron bombs" like Mk.82AIR, Mk.82) fall without guidance AFTER being released.

 

The fire control computer (FCC) though helps you calculate the precise point of release to give you the best chances of a hit. It uses the position of the target. If you fire the laser for a moment, the position that the FCC uses is much more accurate and therefore, so is your release calculation.

[funkster]

Thanks for the heads up all - I never realised that the Laser had affect on dumb munition. Great stuff hopefully this will improve my hit rate. :)

[arteedecco]

Thanks for the heads up all - I never realised that the Laser had affect on dumb munition. Great stuff hopefully this will improve my hit rate. :)

 

Keep in mind that firing the laser AFTER releasing a "dumb bomb" is useless as they don't have seekers or guidance fins, unlike Laser Guided Bombs (LGBs, such as GBU-12 10).

 

LGBs guide on the coded laser beam, which must be fired proceeding bomb impact (after release of the weapon).

 

GPS weapons like GBU-38 and GBU-31 do not use laser guidance either even though they are "smart" weapons and guide to a designated point on the ground using steering fins. Like "dumb bombs" the GPS-based munitions benefit from firing the laser for a moment before releasing them because, again the laser increases the accuracy of the markpoint.

 

Sorry if all of that is rhetorical. Read the beginning of the manual for good, concise summaries of the various weapons and how they work. To be effective, you really do need to understand the various weapons systems and how they work as well as their limitations.

 

Happy bombing!

[amalahama]

But does Laser improve CCIP accuracy also? TGP does never point at CCIP reticle.

 

Regards!

[Bullitt]

Another thing to keep in mind if I am not mistaken is that you should also always have your HUD set to DTS mode so that the IFFCC pulls the elevation information from the DTS rather than going by your steer point elevation. I can see how this would throw off your aim quite a bit.

[deephack]

But does Laser improve CCIP accuracy also? TGP does never point at CCIP reticle.

 

Regards!

 

Yes as you will be superimposing the CCIP dot on a more accurately positioned SPI on release.

[arteedecco]

Another thing to keep in mind if I am not mistaken is that you should also always have your HUD set to DTS mode so that the IFFCC pulls the elevation information from the DTS rather than going by your steer point elevation. I can see how this would throw off your aim quite a bit.

 

Read this thread. The CCIP Invalid and DTS discussion is detailed here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68745&highlight=CCIP+Invalid

 

But does Laser improve CCIP accuracy also?

TGP does never point at CCIP reticle.

 

As I understand it...

 

In short, "yes." When you slew the TGP onto a target, with the TGP set to SPI (Sensor Point of Interest, TMS forward long) the FCC uses the INS-determined position of the TGP diamond. However, this data is imperfect and does not account for the fact that the TGP does not actually "see" the target. In other words, if you have the TGP fixed on a target, it is actually calculating the distance just beyond the target as if the target weren't even there. If you fire the laser briefly, it actually bounces off the target and gives you more precise distance information, which the computer uses to update the position originally determined by the TGP.

 

So, if you have a more accurate determination of the altitude difference between your aircraft and the target, your FCC will be able to get a more accurate calculation of when to release the bomb, therefore increasing your bombing accuracy. The best accuracy would come from minimal slant-range. In other words, being right over the target. To reduce slant range, be as close as possible and as high as possible.

 

All of the above assumes you've made the TGP the SPI and you've slewed it over the target. Your goal then, is to get the bombsight pipper (CCIP reticle pipper) OVER the TGP diamond, which should be on the target, or where you'd like the bomb to land. The TGP NEVER tracks the CCIP reticle.

 

To further your understanding:

Nobody likes this kind of answer (lol), but you really should take some time and read the manual regarding "Combat Employment" [look in the table of contents] (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentaion/). The sections on Unguided Bomb Employment, Laser-Guided Bomb Employment, IAM Bomb Employment are concise, but complete for CCIP / CCRP and will give you a huge step forward in your understanding.

 

Also look at the Wiki (http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/DCS:_A10C_Training_Supplements) for the startup guide. A correct startup ensures you have your INS aligned completely and that you are in DTS mode, which will eliminate a lot of annoying problems when bombing using CCIP / CCRP and manual release.

[funkster]

Read this thread. The CCIP Invalid and DTS discussion is detailed here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=68745&highlight=CCIP+Invalid

 

 

 

As I understand it...

 

In short, "yes." When you slew the TGP onto a target, with the TGP set to SPI (Sensor Point of Interest, TMS forward long) the FCC uses the INS-determined position of the TGP diamond. However, this data is imperfect and does not account for the fact that the TGP does not actually "see" the target. In other words, if you have the TGP fixed on a target, it is actually calculating the distance just beyond the target as if the target weren't even there. If you fire the laser briefly, it actually bounces off the target and gives you more precise distance information, which the computer uses to update the position originally determined by the TGP.

 

So, if you have a more accurate determination of the altitude difference between your aircraft and the target, your FCC will be able to get a more accurate calculation of when to release the bomb, therefore increasing your bombing accuracy. The best accuracy would come from minimal slant-range. In other words, being right over the target. To reduce slant range, be as close as possible and as high as possible.

 

All of the above assumes you've made the TGP the SPI and you've slewed it over the target. Your goal then, is to get the bombsight pipper (CCIP reticle pipper) OVER the TGP diamond, which should be on the target, or where you'd like the bomb to land. The TGP NEVER tracks the CCIP reticle.

 

To further your understanding:

Nobody likes this kind of answer (lol), but you really should take some time and read the manual regarding "Combat Employment" [look in the table of contents] (http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentaion/). The sections on Unguided Bomb Employment, Laser-Guided Bomb Employment, IAM Bomb Employment are concise, but complete for CCIP / CCRP and will give you a huge step forward in your understanding.

 

Also look at the Wiki (http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/DCS:_A10C_Training_Supplements) for the startup guide. A correct startup ensures you have your INS aligned completely and that you are in DTS mode, which will eliminate a lot of annoying problems when bombing using CCIP / CCRP and manual release.

 

Great advice - A re -read is in order (so much info , some washes over). Thanks for all your guidance and support guys. :thumbup: